Kaveri Engine

[rudresh]

Haha! They will tell anything to please the people who are paying them. The engine tech we used is ancient by today's standards. Sufficient effort was made. But the result reflects in GTRE's inability to put the engine on a fighter for test flights.

i agree to some extent with u they are corporate people GTRE was not helped either financially or politically and we know our political elite people and their corporate ideas and ideals very much.

Does it matter? Replace all the GTRE scientists with Russians and Americans then. Even today we don't have an engine that is flight tested. At least the Chinese have flight tested their engines.

and please comment their origin of knowledge for constructing the engine and any ideas about thrust to weight figures and how rigorously they were tested or how many hours after chinese engine need to be replaced. learn it and then comment...............well we dont want americans or russians let our people come back.


15 years ago, all the products you named mostly used foreign engines. We built our first aircraft in the 60s. We still don't have an engine. People recognize you with what you accomplished and not what you tried.

we didnt produced an automobile engine but when we produced a working aeroengine u feel very bad about it and how many set backs did others had in producing a working engine.our people dosent have short sight or long sight but they have astigmatism nothing can be seen clearly,due to our netas loooong and strong fore sight today we dont have a completely tested engine.

ROTFL! You are an obvious loggerhead. Was this article written by an Indian or a foreigner? What is the credibility of the writer? Does he know what he is writing about? Does he even know what a compressor is?

dont want wheather it was written by indian or a by aforeigner or loggerhead like me what i want to tell is IAF wants desh made KAVERI engine.it just represents IAF views.

IAF has the M-53, AL-31FP, the GE F404 and now will take deliveries of either the EJ-200 or M88 along with GE F414. Each of these engines are much better than the Kaveri.requested Kaveri to be wholly Indian. But GTRE said they cannot deliver. That's why there is the GTRE-Snecma JV.


it is better we we dont talk about M53 a single engine mirage use to drink as much fuel as a dual engined mig 29,
AL-31FP -- dose it has a fadec,what its thrust to weight ratio.... similar to kaveri ....a person can be easily accomodated inside russian engines .........when the GTRE people asked for changes in dimensions in kaveri IAF rejectedd ..... ge404 has LCA got the foc and how much do we have in service.


Haha! Keep comforting yourself as much as you can. You have never seen how much ego a guy with a Phd has. They are laughing at us as loud as they can.Even if GTRE succeeds with K-9, it won't change the fact that it is of little use to the IAF.

well good if IAF is not happy the NAVY is happy with it


The Kaveri has been a disappointing project.

it is only for u and our NETAS not for indians as whole........u r thinking as if USA,RUSSIA,FRANCE and UK as ur uncle or aunt and they will give u when ever u ask,on seeing ur rant......disappointment,failure,very old,dosent fit needs,curse,funding problems,frustration etc etc will come before a successful engine.

Even the GTRE-Snecma Kaveri isn't Kaveri, it is the GTRE-Snecma M88. We have dumped our Kaveri's Kabini core to the M88's ECO core. That speaks a lot about our current capability.

they are utilizing the technologies from kaveri and m88 to make a hibrid, definately a lot will be taken from an experinced partner and i am not completely sure about the ECO core since the max thrust achieved by that till date is 90kn the jv will make considerable chnges to it,and i frankly agree that it is not as good as french with material technology.

 

[gogbot]

@p2p
I don't get why you keep talking about Ego and being a laughing stock with the Kaveri program

Kaveri is a need , an essential and integral part of our aerospace industry. No engine is as good as no aerospace industry.
You would know this in a more technical sense then i would.
Disappointing or not the project is a must and any progress made is progress. Its better to have an unsatisfactory engine , the infrastructure and expertise need to build one than being at square one. Not everyone makes engines , reality is not everyone has the resource to try. We may have built a plane 60 years ago , but there were hardly any resources to try back then. Don't take for granted the financial liberties and opportunity afforded to today's defense sector. But 20 years ago India was on the verge of bankruptcy.

Now i don't understand why you keep repeating we are being laughed at for the Current state Of Kaveri project. There has never been shortage of experts to laugh at India before. They laughed when we started the project , they laughed when we started many of our other projects , they laughed when we said we would have space program , they laughed at the idea of a democratic India existing intact beyond the 1960's.
Why you see fit to point it out is what i don't understand. Most of them have always looked at India as just another third world country and they will continue to to do so for many years to come. Their opinions are meaningless you are giving them more note than should be accorded.

The project is not about ego , its about getting done what has to be done. Setbacks are part of that process. Today we have the financial resources to pay the French attain a deliverable product in the GTRE-Kaveri Engine. The French dictate terms only because they know we want Engine technology more than they need Cash.
What happens if the deal falls through and we can't get a foreign help , we have to do it our selves by sinking more time and money into it.

Also i do think its too early for you say that K9 is of no use to the IAF. I Find it very unlikely that something as sought after as jet engine does not see use in one form or another. In fully expect to see variant's on trainer aircraft and UAV's at the very least.
This is a very High technology item , even if based on relatively older technology. Considering Engine technology tends to age comparatively better than other forms.

 

[yashodhan_l]

@P2P

People are laughing at how the effors fail. so do we, when a young person like you fall down suddenly; but that dose not mean that we are laughing at you but we are laughing to the way you fell down. We will help you get up. Now, you get up again and start walking. are we going to laugh at you now? No. - simple. Give credit to the way they are walking the path towards making a good engine. laugh the way they fall but keep in mind that they will get up and develop a good engine. The engine development programm is still young, just like a small chield it will fall and learn to fly an aircraft.

 

[rahulrds1]

Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

The GE 404 has its first test run in 1978, GTRE froze its core at K-9 and k-10 in 2008!! I would say Kaveri is not doing as well as one would expect but in all honesty, is it really worth bashing GTRE so much when the government has supported it half heartedly and expects it to match up to an Western contender which was started way way back and spent TRILLIONS on development.

 

[p2prada]

i agree to some extent with u they are corporate people GTRE was not helped either financially or politically and we know our political elite people and their corporate ideas and ideals very much.

LOL. So, $2Billion is not much eh?

and please comment their origin of knowledge for constructing the engine and any ideas about thrust to weight figures and how rigorously they were tested or how many hours after chinese engine need to be replaced. learn it and then comment...............well we dont want americans or russians let our people come back.

Like I said, is all that important. We don't even have a flying example.

we didnt produced an automobile engine but when we produced a working aeroengine u feel very bad about it and how many set backs did others had in producing a working engine.our people dosent have short sight or long sight but they have astigmatism nothing can be seen clearly,due to our netas loooong and strong fore sight today we dont have a completely tested engine.

The problem is the automobile engine plays a very small part in national security as compared to a turbofan.

dont want wheather it was written by indian or a by aforeigner or loggerhead like me what i want to tell is IAF wants desh made KAVERI engine.it just represents IAF views.

IAF wants desi engine, GTRE is saying they won't get it.

it is better we we dont talk about M53 a single engine mirage use to drink as much fuel as a dual engined mig 29,
AL-31FP -- dose it has a fadec,what its thrust to weight ratio.... similar to kaveri ....a person can be easily accomodated inside russian engines .........when the GTRE people asked for changes in dimensions in kaveri IAF rejectedd ..... ge404 has LCA got the foc and how much do we have in service.

The Kaveri has the lowest T/W out of all the engines mentioned. The Al-31 is already nearing 9:1.

The M-53 is actually powering aircraft for over 30 years.

well good if IAF is not happy the NAVY is happy with it

Nobody has it to be happy with it. Navy is not going to take any Mk1 deliveries. They are only interested in LCA Mk2.

it is only for u and our NETAS not for indians as whole........u r thinking as if USA,RUSSIA,FRANCE and UK as ur uncle or aunt and they will give u when ever u ask,on seeing ur rant......disappointment,failure,very old,dosent fit needs,curse,funding problems,frustration etc etc will come before a successful engine.

It's taken too long. All the uncles and aunties are already providing us their best engines. The Al-31FP has been transferred completely to India.

they are utilizing the technologies from kaveri and m88 to make a hibrid, definately a lot will be taken from an experinced partner and i am not completely sure about the ECO core since the max thrust achieved by that till date is 90kn the jv will make considerable chnges to it,and i frankly agree that it is not as good as french with material technology.

The ECO core is enough.

 

[p2prada]

@gogbot

Who said anything about scrapping the project? The project is going to continue whether IAF likes it or not.

It's of some use to GTRE, perhaps after another 10 or 15 years, they may develop a new engine for the AMCA as an upgrade. Until then we are going to have to depend on imports.

You don't understand the reason for my anger is it? It's the very reason that because GTRE failed, we have to import such crucial technologies.

For the bunch of you being proponents of indigenous equipment, you are actually satisfied that GTRE has tried. Those f*kin idiots failed. The Director was caught in a whore house and there is no other way of salvaging the Kaveri project except for dumping everything they did and let the French build us the engine IAF needs. Wow.

Do you even know what the GTRE_Snecma project is about? The Kaveri is completely dead. The only aircraft that can be equipped with it is the LCA Mk1 and looking at the numbers ordered, just wow. The facts are there for all to see. Do you know what the French are going to do? They are going to throw the Kaveri out the window, build the M88-3 with some less critical indigenous components and paint "Made In India" on it. That's the GTRE-Snecma Kaveri.

The GE 404 has its first test run in 1978, GTRE froze its core at K-9 and k-10 in 2008!! I would say Kaveri is not doing as well as one would expect but in all honesty, is it really worth bashing GTRE so much when the government has supported it half heartedly and expects it to match up to an Western contender which was started way way back and spent TRILLIONS on development.

The F-404 was thought of in 1965 and started in 1967. The first flight was in 1975 and the first Hornet flight was in 1975. Yes, even if the US has spent plenty on development, the people who actually made the F-404 are actually retired or dead. Even then the US is able to train engineers day in and day out to create even better engines. Our Phds and MEs who started with Kaveri are already retired as well. The ones who inherited the project aren't any better. What we are trying to do is develop an engine that took 10 years to develop in the 60s and 70s and replicate the same in our labs. The only thing is we have spent over 20 years and nobody is going to use the engine.

 

[rudresh]

LOL. So, $2Billion is not much eh?

who gave 2 billion dollars to GTRE if they would have given we would have had 5 kaveri generations more and all deshmade lca planes powered by it by now.


The Kaveri has the lowest T/W out of all the engines mentioned. The Al-31 is already nearing 9:1.
even french didnt achive that with m88-2 and have got in there with m88 -4 eco RUSSIANS have not got there with al31 but may have reached with al41 well what about the preliminary engines which iaf got in the beginning.

The M-53 is actually powering aircraft for over 30 years.
and do u think iaf is very happy about its fuel effficiency.

Nobody has it to be happy with it. Navy is not going to take any Mk1 deliveries. They are only interested in LCA Mk2.
i never told about lca they can be used to power rajput class of ships and act as generators on ships hence they have asked derated versions of kaveri.

It's taken too long. All the uncles and aunties are already providing us their best engines. The Al-31FP has been transferred completely to India.

u should have seen the american arrogance they told engines cannot be given whithout knowing the intended purpouse of its usage after winning the tender for lca engines.they want to provide their best engines to manufacture completely in india with complete tot know how and please elobarate i want to know more about it ..........

The ECO core is enough.
the eco core dosent help india in any way it helps in assembling exp which HAL is doing for the last 60 years what we need in the garb of it is blisk,sc,high temp low density materials to help kaveri.

 

[rudresh]

Do you even know what the GTRE_Snecma project is about? The Kaveri is completely dead. The only aircraft that can be equipped with it is the LCA Mk1 and looking at the numbers ordered, just wow. The facts are there for all to see. Do you know what the French are going to do? They are going to throw the Kaveri out the window, build the M88-3 with some less critical indigenous components and paint "Made In India" on it. That's the GTRE-Snecma Kaveri.

india intends to continue the project in by making k10 and an indegeneous effort to uprate kaveri with the tot that we get from this jv when we make sufficient progress we can say good bye to french ........IAF wants an engine now we dont want the hassels of mostly foreign made puzzle boxes.....and more over that will me made in india almost from raw materials so it is worth. other than that what u intend to do get american engine and during wars and export to others do u intend us to beg them.it is just an insurence against GE414 u know when americans get high.........................

the kaveri has given GTRE the same confidence as LCA gave to ADA and we have confidence today that in near future that is going to be verymuch successful .....the EXPERIENCE THAT THEY HAVE GOT FROM THIS IS WORT IN GOLD. THEY HAVE CLEAR IDEAS OF FUTURE REQUIREMENTS. THEY HAVE GOT CONFIDENCE AND WE HAVE GOT FAITH IN THEM

wheather someone goes to whore house or sleeps with a whore is not required we want engine from them and not their private life.

 

[rudresh]

i wanted to tell u people somethings for a long time i restricted myself today there is an article published by chacojoseph, a person who is very famous on the BR

there are lot of developments in the background of kaveri in the material technology arena which is helping indian efforts in future for engines which promices atleast few of the critical things are going to be made in desh now and hope for their complete indigenisation.

wheather kaveri is soo good or not if it brings enhancements to the thrust or decrease the weight or increases the engine life for the deshmade engines including engines that we make in india under TOT or helps in import substution it is a great asset.the newer alloys mostly do all the three.

In the last post i told about the effect of LCA on ADA and KAVERI on GTRE.lca helped mki in lot of aeras and the technology developed for kaveri might help a lot of other engines in IAF service, the technology has been transfered to HAL KORAPUT where AL31 is made.

the newer alloys should help those old russian engines to achieve some more relaibility and increase life atleast.

link
Indian developments in materials for Military Aero Gas turbines - Frontier India - News, Analysis, Opinion

 

[gogbot]

@gogbot
Who said anything about scrapping the project? The project is going to continue whether IAF likes it or not.

Curious statement ,
What reason would IAF have to scrap the Kaveri Project ?

It's of some use to GTRE, perhaps after another 10 or 15 years,

Is GTRE going on holiday for the next 10-15 years or something.
GTRE will build on Kaveri , imporve on what they have from that point.

They won't start all over again , the materials research that went into the engine alone will save them years of toil.

As long as they continue to work on making engines it will be of use of them , until which point they themselves have access to technology that makes Kaveri obsolete.

they may develop a new engine for the AMCA as an upgrade.

"they may" , honestly p2p
By that logic you may as well say they may make the AMCA

Until then we are going to have to depend on imports.

You don't understand the reason for my anger is it? It's the very reason that because GTRE failed, we have to import such crucial technologies.

For the bunch of you being proponents of indigenous equipment,

The concept of indigenous equipment = investment in medium and long term
Is not just an afterthought to me.

you are actually satisfied that GTRE has tried.

I am satisfied our engine technology is not non-existent.
We have an engine , it works.
Albeit it has unfavorable performance , but not in any extreme.

Those f*kin idiots failed The Director was caught in a whore house.

very critical plenty of substance , guess we must trow away all those new materials and fine comments.

The quest to make an indigenous engine was ambitious , the budget was miniscule at the time and infrastructure needed is non existent.

Admittedly set backs and disappointments , were part of the project even with greater and greater budget.
In the end some technologies were made possible others were not.

you call it failure and the people who worked on it idiots.
To build an engine in India in the late 1980's with none of the infrastructure , none of the technologies , none of the expertise.
If you asked me at the time , if anything would have come of it i would have said no.

its bloody achievement they got as far as they did. The project could well have ended with no working system at all.

there is no other way of salvaging the Kaveri project

Hardly , they can move onto make K10 , k11 , k1000
whats stopping them exactly .

Its not money.
If they had enough people they can have parallel developments. Engine tech is top on MoD's focus today.

except for dumping everything they did and let the French build us the engine IAF needs. Wow.

Right , working with the French to make the GTRE_Schema engine is amount to us dumping the indigenous design completly
the same way working with the Russians to make the FGFA means the The LCA and AMCA have been dumped.

Do you even know what the GTRE_Snecma project is about?

Ill admit there is fair amount of ambiguity about all of it

The Kaveri is completely dead.

Crazy talk , DRDO projects never die.
They may be Decades late and over budget, but they get it done.

The only aircraft that can be equipped with it is the LCA Mk1 and looking at the numbers ordered, just wow.

For now , its going to change.

The UAV mini engine will be Kaver based.

The facts are there for all to see.

They seem to to mean different things to you and me.
Matter of perspective perhaps.

Do you know what the French are going to do? They are going to throw the Kaveri out the window, build the M88-3 with some less critical indigenous components and paint "Made In India" on it. That's the GTRE-Snecma Kaveri.

So be it , IAF gets what it wants. GTRE gets a chance to work on the M88-3.
Its just one engine over the 5-8 year period. It might end up saving GTRE several more years of R&D and more years of testing to field a similar system.

Again we have money , French have tech. We get tech , French get money. Whats wrong with that arrangement
If we just wanted the engine we could just buy the M-88. Hell if an when we get the Rafale we will make the Engine at HAL under ToT anyway.

There will be other engines and they will owe themselves to the Kaveri program more than the GTRE-Schema Engine.

IF you think India will only be working on one Engine this entire decade , that's the biggest misconception here.

 

[gogbot]

Whats happened to the edit post button.
my preious post is a bit of mess ,

This is a quote from p2p i forgot to reply to in my previous post

Until then we are going to have to depend on imports.

well that's the reality on the ground on all fronts is it not , we'll get there eventually.

You don't understand the reason for my anger is it? It's the very reason that because GTRE failed, we have to import such crucial technologies.

Well we use to get the whole engine imported before , if are only importing crucial tech.
I ain't gonna say that progress is BS ,
Take what you can get , work to improve on that.

---

The final paragraph from my previous post, that i meant to add.

p2p your kinda looking at failure in black and white , which really does not apply in some cases.
Not to over use the metaphor but , i am looking at these programs in shades of gray. My perspective does not have to be yours.
We have had our differences before on this , to you they may just be the fail engine , fail tank , fail gun and tail plane. All perspectives are important and we all need a devils advocate. But the more black and white your arguments the more extreme they are as well.

Forgive my lack of photogenic memory i cannot remember the time or place , but couple of months back i do remember you making a post about the complexities of producing an indigenous engine in response to comment by another member. And while the specifics escape me i am pretty sure you spoke of GTRE more politely of them .
Than your most recent description "f*cking idiots" .

 

[rudresh]

successful kaveri engine will yield the technology for the fighter planes,marine engines for ships,large industrial generator,trains,tanks,trainers,missiles,tanks etc etc .......one tree lot of fruits banana,mango,orange,grape.......can be developed into any of the above things as per the taste.

after the tests kaveri can go with incremental upgrades ........to make it perfect.

any way thoroughly tested engine will emerge in one form or the other,if it can run on biohydrocarbon then it will be of immense value.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

successful kaveri engine will yield the technology for the fighter planes,marine engines for ships,large industrial generator,trains,tanks,trainers,missiles,tanks etc etc .......one tree lot of fruits banana,mango,orange,grape.......can be developed into any of the above things as per the taste.

after the tests kaveri can go with incremental upgrades ........to make it perfect.

any way thoroughly tested engine will emerge in one form or the other,if it can run on biohydrocarbon then it will be of immense value.

I agree that it has huge off shot effect but what with the grammar? You don't even start the sentence with an Capital word! lol..

Terrible grammar and humor!

 

[p2prada]

who gave 2 billion dollars to GTRE if they would have given we would have had 5 kaveri generations more and all deshmade lca planes powered by it by now.

Till date, development of K-9 has cost $2Billion.

and do u think iaf is very happy about its fuel effficiency.

Yes. The M-53's fuel efficiency is higher than K-9. The IAF is quite happy with it. Even the AL-31FP has a lower efficiency compared to M-53.

i never told about lca they can be used to power rajput class of ships and act as generators on ships hence they have asked derated versions of kaveri.

What's that got to do with Turbofans on aircraft.

u should have seen the american arrogance they told engines cannot be given whithout knowing the intended purpouse of its usage after winning the tender for lca engines.they want to provide their best engines to manufacture completely in india with complete tot know how and please elobarate i want to know more about it ..........

The Americans won't but the Europeans and Russians are ready for Full ToT. Heck AL-31FP has been completely transferred.

the eco core dosent help india in any way it helps in assembling exp which HAL is doing for the last 60 years what we need in the garb of it is blisk,sc,high temp low density materials to help kaveri.

You aren't thinking with the IAF in mind. The ECO core is the best we can get for Kaveri. Full ToT will be given, but it won't be our own work. Meaning the K-10 isn't an indigenous engine.

india intends to continue the project in by making k10 and an indegeneous effort to uprate kaveri with the tot that we get from this jv when we make sufficient progress we can say good bye to french ........IAF wants an engine now we dont want the hassels of mostly foreign made puzzle boxes.....and more over that will me made in india almost from raw materials so it is worth. other than that what u intend to do get american engine and during wars and export to others do u intend us to beg them.it is just an insurence against GE414 u know when americans get high.........................

You still don't understand the K-10 is the GTRE-Snecma engine. The core isn't indigenous. It is a French core dressed with Kaveri components.

Nobody wants the K-9.

 

[p2prada]

Curious statement ,
What reason would IAF have to scrap the Kaveri Project ?

They don't have the powers to cancel projects. Only Mod does. Anyway there is no reason in scrapping the project. It is important for the future.

Is GTRE going on holiday for the next 10-15 years or something.
GTRE will build on Kaveri , imporve on what they have from that point.

The K-9 has little or no room for improvement. When Kaveri development started it was supposed to be a F-404 equivalent. The F-404 became obsolete in the 90s itself and the K-9 is nowhere close to matching the F-404. The new F-414 became the new benchmark after 1995.

The K-10 is supposed to be that benchmark and it is going to take time. The first K-10 may only have it's first flight after 2020, that's being optimistic.

Also I was talking about a new indigenous core for the AMCA and not the K-10. So, if that is to be ready, it should happen only after 2025. That's 10 to 15 years, if we are lucky that is.

They won't start all over again , the materials research that went into the engine alone will save them years of toil.

If you know anything about engine development you will understand that if we are to start on a whole new core we are going to take 5 years on just deciding what alloys to use. Designing, building and testing itself should take 10 years, followed by serial production which has it's share of problems.

Heck the Americans were predicting the Russians with all their experience will take 10 years just to have a fifth gen engine prototype for PAKFA. Lucky for us the Russians came back saying they have already been working on the PAKFA engine for many years now. That's how long even seasoned developers take.

As long as they continue to work on making engines it will be of use of them , until which point they themselves have access to technology that makes Kaveri obsolete.

You forget, whatever GTRE has made till date is of little or no use to the IAF, their principle clients.

"they may" , honestly p2p
By that logic you may as well say they may make the AMCA

Building an engine is way harder than making the AMCA. A fifth gen engine more advanced than the K-10 will be a very big decision, if announced.

The concept of indigenous equipment = investment in medium and long term
Is not just an afterthought to me.

Yes. It takes years to develop and test. Even after that induction is not guaranteed. That's what is happening to Indian development. The indigenous equipment is inferior to the imported equipment to the point where the stuff our armed forces are inducting are already obsolete by the time it's ready.

I am satisfied our engine technology is not non-existent.
We have an engine , it works.
Albeit it has unfavorable performance , but not in any extreme.

An engine that works but has nothing to run isn't an engine. We will be lucky to have the K-9 flying on LCA Mk1 before the LCA Mk-2 does.

The quest to make an indigenous engine was ambitious , the budget was miniscule at the time and infrastructure needed is non existent.

ISRO used cycles and bullock carts to carry and test their rockets on a budget that was 10 times smaller than DRDO. Funny that.

To build an engine in India in the late 1980's with none of the infrastructure , none of the technologies , none of the expertise.
If you asked me at the time , if anything would have come of it i would have said no.

Nothing has come out of it today as well. ISRO is testing a much more complex engine on their rocket while DRDO is struggling to make an aircraft engine that is already obsolete by today's standards.

its bloody achievement they got as far as they did. The project could well have ended with no working system at all.

It's a bloody accident that we did it. We don't have a working system. Running the Kaveri for 2 or even 10 minutes isn't a working system.

Hardly , they can move onto make K10 , k11 , k1000
whats stopping them exactly .

What's stopping them is themselves. They always had the money, but did not know what to do with it. Their managerial skills is piss poor and their will even lesser. The French will make the K-10.

If GTRE is to design a new core, it will take over 10 to 15 years.

Its not money.
If they had enough people they can have parallel developments. Engine tech is top on MoD's focus today.

This isn't something you can do by simply throwing money at it.

Right , working with the French to make the GTRE_Schema engine is amount to us dumping the indigenous design completly
the same way working with the Russians to make the FGFA means the The LCA and AMCA have been dumped.

The LCA, AMCA and FGFA are completely different projects. If the report about us working with the Russians over a single engine fifth gen aircraft is true then that would amount to dumping the AMCA. If the IAF suddenly decides to buy the F-35, then that amounts to dumping the AMCA.

As of today, all the LCA prototypes will be powered by the GE engines. The K-9 uses a Kabini core while the K-10 uses the ECO core. The Kabini core has no future beyond being upgrades for LCA Mk1 during MLUs. It's pretty much been dumped.

Crazy talk , DRDO projects never die.
They may be Decades late and over budget, but they get it done.

Yes. DRDO projects sees generations of people working on it.

For now , its going to change.
The UAV mini engine will be Kaver based.

Perhaps, but what good does that do?

They seem to to mean different things to you and me.
Matter of perspective perhaps.

This talk of different perspective would work if the K-9 was currently being flight tested on LCA. After 20 years, GTRE is not sure, if K-9 can even power the Kaveri.

So be it , IAF gets what it wants. GTRE gets a chance to work on the M88-3.
Its just one engine over the 5-8 year period. It might end up saving GTRE several more years of R&D and more years of testing to field a similar system.

Then that's not indigenous. GTRE is only importing crucial technology.

Again we have money , French have tech. We get tech , French get money. Whats wrong with that arrangement
If we just wanted the engine we could just buy the M-88. Hell if an when we get the Rafale we will make the Engine at HAL under ToT anyway.

There will be other engines and they will owe themselves to the Kaveri program more than the GTRE-Schema Engine.

IF you think India will only be working on one Engine this entire decade , that's the biggest misconception here.

A second engine project will make new waves. It's going to be a big deal to announce a second engine without getting the first one flying.

well that's the reality on the ground on all fronts is it not , we'll get there eventually.

Hardly possible in this decade.

Well we use to get the whole engine imported before , if are only importing crucial tech.
I ain't gonna say that progress is BS ,
Take what you can get , work to improve on that.

It isn't as easy as it sounds. When I say crucial technology, it means the equivalent technology that we have can kill people around it.

p2p your kinda looking at failure in black and white , which really does not apply in some cases.
Not to over use the metaphor but , i am looking at these programs in shades of gray. My perspective does not have to be yours.

Interesting perspective. It's all black until they get the K-9 flying on LCA.

Forgive my lack of photogenic memory i cannot remember the time or place , but couple of months back i do remember you making a post about the complexities of producing an indigenous engine in response to comment by another member. And while the specifics escape me i am pretty sure you spoke of GTRE more politely of them .
Than your most recent description "f*cking idiots" .

Making engines is the hardest of all technologies known to man. Nobody gets into it unless they are completely sure about getting it right without affecting the forces plans. Look at the Chinese, all their efforts in engine development isn't done by keeping their air force in the crosshair. The PLAAF imports all their needs without having a pain in the a** PSU that keeps butting in on their plans and force preparedness. That's unlike our PSUs which tell the govt they are close to a breakthrough and prevent the IAF from buying new jets, read the requirement for 126 Mirage-2000s that IAF wanted after Kargil war. 2 decades and our force levels have gone down drastically simply because of ADA's tall promises.

Getting the indigenous engine to perform in the air is too big a task for GTRE to handle as of today. Things change when their topmost scientist gets caught in a whore house and needs his wife to protect him.

 

[rudresh]

I agree that it has huge off shot effect but what with the grammar? You don't even start the sentence with an Capital word! lol..

Terrible grammar and humor!

I am studing for exam right now hence it is terrible when i am back i will see to it bye for some days .......

 

[Godless-Kafir]

I am studing for exam right now hence it is terrible when i am back i will see to it bye for some days .......

Your doing your Kindergarten?

 

[Godless-Kafir]

IHI XF5-1 Engine is for Japans ATD-X fighter. The Engine is similar to the Kaveri and is faceing the same problems.

 

[rudresh]

Till date, development of K-9 has cost $2Billion.
Great. it is really not worth to talk to u. It was the cost of m88 not kaveris now i am giving a link

Kaveri Engine Production Negotiation With Snecma in Final Stage says Defence Minister | India Defence

India had sanctioned the Kaveri engine development project on Mar 30, 1989, with a probable date of completion in December 1996 and a cost of Rs.382.81 crore. The project cost was later revised to Rs.2,839 crore.

3000 crore is roughly 0.8 billion.


Yes. The M-53's fuel efficiency is higher than K-9. The IAF is quite happy with it. Even the AL-31FP has a lower efficiency compared to M-53.

Well just search the details

Specifications (M53-P2)
General characteristics

Type: Afterburning single-shaft turbofan
Length: 5,070 mm (199.60 in)
Diameter: 796 mm (31.33 in) inlet
Dry weight: 1,515 kg (3,340 lb)

Components

Compressor: 8-stage axial compressor
Bypass ratio: 0.36:1
Turbine: 2-stage axial turbine

Performance

Maximum thrust:
64 kN (14,300 lbf) military thrust
95 kN (21,384 lbf) with afterburner
Overall pressure ratio: 9.8:1
Specific fuel consumption:
0.90(kg/daN.h)Dry engine thrust
2.10(kg/daN.h) military thrust
Thrust-to-weight ratio: 6.5

this is worst even by kaveri standards dont compare to AL31.


The Americans won't but the Europeans and Russians are ready for Full ToT. Heck AL-31FP has been completely transferred.

Ask europeans if they are ready to completely manufacture the EJ200 engine in india from raw materials including the core........the answer will be NO



You aren't thinking with the IAF in mind. The ECO core is the best we can get for Kaveri. Full ToT will be given, but it won't be our own work. Meaning the K-10 isn't an indigenous engine.You still don't understand the K-10 is the GTRE-Snecma engine. The core isn't indigenous. It is a French core dressed with Kaveri components.

You dont want kaveri or semiindegeneous kaveri2 what do u want ...........import the whole engine...... american solution or else import m88-4 ECO french idea.

Nobody wants the K-9.
Neither French, Americans nor Europeans like k9 who r u........... or it hurts bad when k9 bites is it so.......