Kaveri Engine

[Wisemarko]

What is civilian about an F414 engine core? The USML clearly defines what is controlled and it definitely is.

Really?! How does the hot sections of F414, LM1600, F110 or CFM56 are different? The same core technology applies in all of them except the afterburner (and software) for fighters. If India wishes to obtain “core tech” any of these would suffice.

 

[Wisemarko]

And when you propose grandiose partnership plans, make sure you have something more substantive to offer than empty words.

The partnership usually provides both parties something they don’t have. What does India bring to table except money? (You may not know the answer but we do)

 

[mayfair]

The partnership usually provides both parties something they don’t have. What does India bring to table except money? (You may not know the answer but we do)

Thanks for confirming that much of what you posted above was simply pulling stuff out of your Musharraf.

Initially you said

India is one of only eight countries where US defense exports are not restricted.

Now your own official has contradicted it. He clearly points out that it's specifically about the US export control laws. So even if the companies such as GE agree to sell certain tech to India (not necessarily the crown jewels), they need to comply with US export controls. Then how are defense exports "not restricted".

But anyway,

As far as the partnership is confirmed, I wonder what the US government was thinking when they planned their pivot for Asia or when they instituted the quad.

But whatever.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

What does India bring to table except money?

Great answer friend, fabulous answer keep going this way......AS I ALREADY said in this forum there are people who say INDIA will not develop ANYTHING and then their are people LIKE You who INDIRECTLY say "man don't produce just buy from us" and "BE PREPARED FOR SANCTION WHENEVER WE WANT" from time to time.
And there are guys like me who say FULL SUPPORT FOR INDIGENOUS WEAPONS even if they are 50 percent indigenous or HEAVY or LIGHT is necessary.
Your these beautiful words are MUSIC TO ME AND IAF current chief type of people.

 

[Armand2REP]

Really?! How does the hot sections of F414, LM1600, F110 or CFM56 are different? The same core technology applies in all of them except the afterburner (and software) for fighters. If India wishes to obtain “core tech” any of these would suffice.

Because they are "capable of 15,000 lbf (66.7 kN) of thrust or greater." Did you not read the USML link I posted in #3320?

 

[Wisemarko]

Because they are "capable of 15,000 lbf (66.7 kN) of thrust or greater." Did you not read the USML link I posted in #3320?

Why are we going around in circles?
Do you want whole engine? Get licensed build- easier, faster and cheaper.

Do you want core tech so that you can build one yourself? Go talk to the company. It’s not about the engine or thrust that India has problem getting access to. India can license build F414 easily.
CFM56 is not even restricted tech. But no one will sell that technology (SAFRAN or GE)

 

[Armand2REP]

Why are we going around in circles?
Do you want whole engine? Get licensed build- easier, faster and cheaper.

Do you want core tech so that you can build one yourself? Go talk to the company. It’s not about the engine or thrust that India has problem getting access to. India can license build F414 easily.
CFM56 is not even restricted tech. But no one will sell that technology (SAFRAN or GE)

It isn't about what they want, it is about what Uncle Sam clears them to get.

 

[Wisemarko]

So even if the companies such as GE agree to sell certain tech to India

Let’s get to that point first- Get GE to sell certain tech and discuss afterwards.

 

[Wisemarko]

Initially you said “India is one of only eight countries where US defense exports are not restricted.”

These are not my words. This is official US policy. If you don’t understand the value of it, too bad.

 

[mayfair]

These are not my words. This is official US policy. If you don’t understand the value of it, too bad.

Well than you should have quoted the source (as I did). If you fail to understand the concept of citations, then too bad.

Either way, we have established that India and US are a long way apart in meeting each other's expectations and it would be wise to stay cautious on the progress of any deals.

 

[mayfair]

Let’s get to that point first- Get GE to sell certain tech and discuss afterwards.

Nope classic strawman. Now allow me to explain again, this time by re-examining Ellen Lord's statement.

We could not come to an understanding of what exportable technologies would be useful to the Indians AND we did run into a challenge in terms of US export controls

There are two aspects that become very clear.

1. There were "EXPORTABLE" technologies that being offered that India did not really feel were of use.
2. There were "EXPORTABLE" technologies that were being offered and that India probably wanted, but these proposed transfers were challenged by "US export controls"

It is clear that GE or whichever company was a part of the Joint Working Group, was willing to offer SOME technology that India WAS WILLING to acquire, but this "ran into a challenge in terms of US export controls"

So it was not GE (or equivalent) or India but GOTUS which was and is an impediment to this partnership moving ahead.

Go figure.

 

[Defcon 1]

The partnership usually provides both parties something they don’t have. What does India bring to table except money? (You may not know the answer but we do)

Of course, India brings nothing to the table. Please remember it when you need India to stop oil imports from Iran or Stop importing weapons from Russia or counter china in SCS or select American equipment in multivendor tendors.

Off topic, LM should stop begging MOD for selecting their F16 in MRCA 2, we will give the contract to that vendor who gives us engine tech for AMCA

 

[Assassin 2.0]

UPDATE.
.............................
..

 

[dude00720]

Of course, India brings nothing to the table. Please remember it when you need India to stop oil imports from Iran or Stop importing weapons from Russia or counter china in SCS or select American equipment in multivendor tendors.

Off topic, LM should stop begging MOD for selecting their F16 in MRCA 2, we will give the contract to that vendor who gives us engine tech for AMCA

Not to mention the fact, that, LM keeps on saying by it's media pappus that "Oh, India cant produce AMCA". So, if we cant do it, good for you. Charge a premium later.

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

Yup.. that is correct. When you go shopping make sure what you need and what is available for sale.

Yep!!! You are very much correct ONLY SCREWDRIVERS ARE ON THE SHELF FOR SALE.

Stupid Indians are thinking they can collaborate with GORA SAHEBS of USA and FRANCE in technology.

Dumb Indians.

Rightly kicked by both Uncle Tom and French-Cuts in the behinds.

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

Investing in the technology is the only way out. What we have spend till now on Kaveri is peanuts, What do you expect after spending merely $650????

But what has been achieved despite spending peanuts is phenomenal.

We are begging and shitting BILLIONS of $ to the Foreign Elites, who finally will handover screwdriver in the name of Technology.

Good example of that is M-88 core offered for Kaveri by Safran. All you will get a Nice Screwdriver after spending Billions, and will get glitch in the name of Technology.

Instead of running around the world and begging, it is much better to invest in our own projects. China is pouring Billions in the Jet Engine despite repeated failures.

There is no shortcut for developing Cutting Edge Technology, without going thrugh learning curve.

No body is going to part with their Crown Jewel which they spend Billions and Decades of Research.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

We are begging and shitting BILLIONS of $ to the Foreign Elites, who finally will handover screwdriver in the name of Technology.

Good example of that is M-88 core offered for Kaveri by Safran. All you will get a Nice Screwdriver after spending Billions, and will get glitch in the name of Technolog

Actually drdo rejected M-88 core deal long ago.
Any progress which we make is to revive the kaveri and learn hot core technology.

There is nothing like begging. Most of the countries with which we are dealing we are having long term defence relationship with them and have given billions worth of deals. So we are trying to make a new deal. India already manufactured AL-31 have know how to build it but technology which we seek Russians doesn't have that. Americans rejected it okay. Last country which remains is france and they are talking with Us which shows they also have some interest. Money i guess. India have huge consumption of Defence equipments and purchase power for that which gives india a good leverage.
It's not begging its like we are running and running and spending our diplomatic capital.

DRDO and government is not dumb we did screwdriver giri with AL-31 fine but if we go with HAL chief statement he said we know how to build AL-31 Engine but unlike Chinese we respect intellectual property rights.

 

[Deathstar]

Does anyone here thinks that this deal is related to Kaveri project and TOT of core tech? Though government isnt involved directly ,i believe they have some sort of hand in this. Remember CFM56 jet engine powers A320 family and guess what its a JV between GE and SAFRAN

 

[Wisemarko]

LM should stop begging MOD for selecting their F16 in MRCA 2

Responding to RFI is not begging. Asking for tech that is not available for sale is begging. Get off the high horse.

 

[Wisemarko]

Does anyone here thinks that this deal is related to Kaveri project and TOT of core tech? Though government isnt involved directly ,i believe they have some sort of hand in this. Remember CFM56 jet engine powers A320 family and guess what its a JV between GE and SAFRAN

The founder of this airline was CEO of US Airways (that merged with American).
US Airways always had excellent relationship with Airbus and got good deals from them. Nothing other than business. Each Airbus has many US made equipment most notably Engines. A320neo is excellent choice and does not use CFM56.