INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[Aditya Ballal]

from twitter...

modified INSAS rifle with bullpup version

These pics are already posted here several times mate.

 

[ManhattanProject]

from twitter...

modified INSAS rifle with bullpup version

You guys live under a rock? The guy who built this kit is now going to produce a sub-machine gun.

 

[chetan_chpd]

You guys live under a rock? The guy who built this kit is now going to produce a sub-machine gun.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Why is it so that the same pics on DFI end up getting recycled every 4 weeks?
Those INSAS pics modded and bullpup are recycled by everyone as some new jadeed tareen teknalagi unheard of.

 

[ShukantC]

The bullpup version of INSAS was created by the same designer of the ASMI Lt Col Prasad Bansod of Army War College MHOW.

The modded INSAS was a potential upgrade to the INSAS LMG version given by FAB Defence of Israel. it had contained all the required upgrade for a more ergonomic INSAS rifle plus a free floating barrel that could have enhanced the accuracy of the insas LMG version. To bad the Armed forces didnt go for it.

Even indigenous solutions exist for the upgrade of the INSAS rifle were available but the Armed forces didnt go for it. If the armed forces dont support the weapons development from a early stage then how do they expect a world class rifle from Indian sources anyways.
The M16 rifle first introduced in Vietnam war had a lot of problems , the ak 47 used by the viet cong was more reliable than the m16 so much so that the US SF used to pick up the discarded AK 47 rifles for use. The US army kept working at it and made many upgrades/revision to the rifle so as to make it a world class rifle whose related family members (M16 A1,A2,A3 then M4 Carbine and its variants, the M27 rifle) are being used by US Army even after 40+ years of service. The M4 Carbine turned out to be the favorite rifle of special forces from around the world......


And people saying the 5.56 is dead the French ordered the H&K 416 for its armed forces as their main assault rifle for the future and 6.8mm adoption is still a long way off

 

[JBH22]

Frankly the new Ak 203 (top) we are purchasing is frankly the watered down version of the original Ak203(bottom). I would have loved if the army accepted the 7.62*51mm version INSAS.
View attachment 105038View attachment 105039

Its only fixed buttstock that is different, once you add Tonbo or any other locally made optics it should work fine. These rifles will be assigned to para military forces mostly. In any case, troops can manage with iron sights also. We have budgetary constraints.
May be if elite forces use the AK 203 then they can add all the bells and whistles to it.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Its only fixed buttstock that is different, once you add Tonbo or any other locally made optics it should work fine. These rifles will be assigned to para military forces mostly. In any case, troops can manage with iron sights also. We have budgetary constraints.
May be if elite forces use the AK 203 then they can add all the bells and whistles to it.

You do know how much more thermal sights by companies like TONBO cost over regular optics right? We’d only be making our budget issues worse, BEL made Trinetra and Holographic sight can be used for CQB ops, but at some point we have to think about modern magnified optics.

 

[chetan_chpd]

Cringe time with Narangi Insas

 

[SKC]

Cringe time with Narangi Insas

 

[Aditya Ballal]

 

[Johny_Baba]

The modded INSAS was a potential upgrade to the INSAS LMG version given by FAB Defence of Israel. it had contained all the required upgrade for a more ergonomic INSAS rifle plus a free floating barrel that could have enhanced the accuracy of the insas LMG version. To bad the Armed forces didnt go for it.

Yeah but some corrections,
FAB Upgrade kit that we saw on INSAS wasn't done on INSAS LMG but regular 1B variant, LMG one has quite many differences that one can't simply affix 1B pattern handguards on it, am also doubtful about buttstock,
so yeah, the kit was there but it was for 1B INSAS,
ALSO, that upgrade kit by FAB for INSAS DID NOT OFFER FREE FLOATING BARREL AT ALL, it seems like some sorta faux advertisement or just incorrect info being shared and i can tell you why,

See that marked part ? That is handguard retainer on INSAS, derived from AK of course,
that part affixes handguard (lower one but in some designs like polish Tantal//Beryl it also holds upper one) to the barrel itself, and that gonna put a load on the barrel i.e. would make it non-free-floating to start with,
so yeah FAB kit for INSAS did not offer free-floating handguards as with this 'quick-swap' pattern handguards it won't be possible, they would have to try something else,

...and why even FAB kit,
even that SSSD kit that often boasted that theirs is providing muh free-floating barrel etc etc is plain stupid lie, bekoze well the kit (originally Texas Weapons Systems one) affixes on AK like this...

{note that this is from some manual covering how TWS handguards can be installed on AK with different barrel profile/diameters etc, they suggesting to use a proper bushing etc}
So...this TWS pattern handguards that was offered by SSSD is mounted on the barrel via a clamp that affixes it to the barrel itself from rear, just that on front where AK pattern handguard retainer usually latches on handguards is eliminated here to give this perceived free-float-ness to the rifle, while actually whole lower is affixed directly on the barrel itself from rear (albeit it is steadier mount as it is near to the point where barrel is affixed on the front trunnion etc etc but still cannot be called a true free-floating barrel)
The upper part of handguard later is affixed on the lower handguard that is spaced around,so that part also putting load indirectly on the barrel and so,
in fact it would be rather hard to free-float AK on default without say providing a mount/chassey due to this kinda configuration...It is possible yes but one would have to at minimum modify the weapon itself, simple 'quick-swap' parts are very less likely to provide it,
so yeah...
even @Gessler bhai provided a detailed technical explanation on the topic but i thought some doubts need to be cleared regd whole FAB INSAS kit "free-floating" thing (and also that SSSD one) @ALBY @shuvo@y2k10 @Hariharan_kalarikkal @Aditya Ballal @FalconSlayers @Vishalreddy3 @Bleh and all

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Yeah but some corrections,
FAB Upgrade kit that we saw on INSAS wasn't done on INSAS LMG but regular 1B variant, LMG one has quite many differences that one can't simply affix 1B pattern handguards on it, am also doubtful about buttstock,
so yeah, the kit was there but it was for 1B INSAS,
ALSO, that upgrade kit by FAB for INSAS DID NOT OFFER FREE FLOATING BARREL AT ALL, it seems like some sorta faux advertisement or just incorrect info being shared and i can tell you why,
View attachment 107364
See that marked part ? That is handguard retainer on INSAS, derived from AK of course,
that part affixes handguard (lower one but in some designs like polish Tantal//Beryl it also holds upper one) to the barrel itself, and that gonna put a load on the barrel i.e. would make it non-free-floating to start with,
so yeah FAB kit for INSAS did not offer free-floating handguards as with this 'quick-swap' pattern handguards it won't be possible, they would have to try something else,

...and why even FAB kit,
even that SSSD kit that often boasted that theirs is providing muh free-floating barrel etc etc is plain stupid lie, bekoze well the kit (originally Texas Weapons Systems one) affixes on AK like this...
View attachment 107368
{note that this is from some manual covering how TWS handguards can be installed on AK with different barrel profile/diameters etc, they suggesting to use a proper bushing etc}
So...this TWS pattern handguards that was offered by SSSD is mounted on the barrel via a clamp that affixes it to the barrel itself from rear, just that on front where AK pattern handguard retainer usually latches on handguards is eliminated here to give this perceived free-float-ness to the rifle, while actually whole lower is affixed directly on the barrel itself from rear (albeit it is steadier mount as it is near to the point where barrel is affixed on the front trunnion etc etc but still cannot be called a true free-floating barrel)
The upper part of handguard later is affixed on the lower handguard that is spaced around,so that part also putting load indirectly on the barrel and so,
in fact it would be rather hard to free-float AK on default without say providing a mount/chassey due to this kinda configuration...It is possible yes but one would have to at minimum modify the weapon itself, simple 'quick-swap' parts are very less likely to provide it,
so yeah...
even @Gessler bhai provided a detailed technical explanation on the topic but i thought some doubts need to be cleared regd whole FAB INSAS kit "free-floating" thing (and also that SSSD one) @ALBY @shuvo@y2k10 @Hariharan_kalarikkal @Aditya Ballal @FalconSlayers @Vishalreddy3 @Bleh and all

Is there any AK or AK Mod Kit that truly offers free floating barrel and is there that much of a benefit modifying it if such a level of significant changes are required to be made?

 

[Johny_Baba]

Is there any AK or AK Mod Kit that truly offers free floating barrel and is there that much of a benefit modifying it if such a level of significant changes are required to be made?

Why not,in fact many,
but most of them involves mounting those handguards directly on the front trunnion of the AK itself, via screws or rivets etc - so some modification part is there, and once affixed it would be hard to take them off on field level field strip-disassembly tasks,

then some of them also offer a separate chassey for quickly mounting/unmounting of the handguards, making it possble to take it down for field strip etc, generally the chassey is again mounted on the front trunnion or iron sight block part of the AK (if the second part then again it is going to put up some load on barrel since one side of the iron sight block on AK is mounted on barrel etc)

just google image with "AK free floating handguards" "AK free floating chassey" etc etc, you shall see many ideas about it,
or better, study the AK design itself, you might be able to create your own idea for it, who knows ?

 

[Johny_Baba]

Yeah but some corrections,
FAB Upgrade kit that we saw on INSAS wasn't done on INSAS LMG but regular 1B variant, LMG one has quite many differences that one can't simply affix 1B pattern handguards on it, am also doubtful about buttstock,
so yeah, the kit was there but it was for 1B INSAS,
ALSO, that upgrade kit by FAB for INSAS DID NOT OFFER FREE FLOATING BARREL AT ALL, it seems like some sorta faux advertisement or just incorrect info being shared and i can tell you why,
View attachment 107364
See that marked part ? That is handguard retainer on INSAS, derived from AK of course,
that part affixes handguard (lower one but in some designs like polish Tantal//Beryl it also holds upper one) to the barrel itself, and that gonna put a load on the barrel i.e. would make it non-free-floating to start with,
so yeah FAB kit for INSAS did not offer free-floating handguards as with this 'quick-swap' pattern handguards it won't be possible, they would have to try something else,

...and why even FAB kit,
even that SSSD kit that often boasted that theirs is providing muh free-floating barrel etc etc is plain stupid lie, bekoze well the kit (originally Texas Weapons Systems one) affixes on AK like this...
View attachment 107368
{note that this is from some manual covering how TWS handguards can be installed on AK with different barrel profile/diameters etc, they suggesting to use a proper bushing etc}
So...this TWS pattern handguards that was offered by SSSD is mounted on the barrel via a clamp that affixes it to the barrel itself from rear, just that on front where AK pattern handguard retainer usually latches on handguards is eliminated here to give this perceived free-float-ness to the rifle, while actually whole lower is affixed directly on the barrel itself from rear (albeit it is steadier mount as it is near to the point where barrel is affixed on the front trunnion etc etc but still cannot be called a true free-floating barrel)
The upper part of handguard later is affixed on the lower handguard that is spaced around,so that part also putting load indirectly on the barrel and so,
in fact it would be rather hard to free-float AK on default without say providing a mount/chassey due to this kinda configuration...It is possible yes but one would have to at minimum modify the weapon itself, simple 'quick-swap' parts are very less likely to provide it,
so yeah...
even @Gessler bhai provided a detailed technical explanation on the topic but i thought some doubts need to be cleared regd whole FAB INSAS kit "free-floating" thing (and also that SSSD one) @ALBY @shuvo@y2k10 @Hariharan_kalarikkal @Aditya Ballal @FalconSlayers @Vishalreddy3 @Bleh and all

Why not,in fact many,
but most of them involves mounting those handguards directly on the front trunnion of the AK itself, via screws or rivets etc - so some modification part is there, and once affixed it would be hard to take them off on field level field strip-disassembly tasks,

then some of them also offer a separate chassey for quickly mounting/unmounting of the handguards, making it possble to take it down for field strip etc, generally the chassey is again mounted on the front trunnion or iron sight block part of the AK (if the second part then again it is going to put up some load on barrel since one side of the iron sight block on AK is mounted on barrel etc)

just google image with "AK free floating handguards" "AK free floating chassey" etc etc, you shall see many ideas about it,
or better, study the AK design itself, you might be able to create your own idea for it, who knows ?

Now with these posts (and previous ones in past on AK front trunnion + iron sight block + free-floating of AK etc etc) i almost have cleared some basic requirements of making AK a free-floating pattern rifle,
that is to edit the way gas tube is mounted on the rifle (via that iron sight block) and // or change the way handguards are retained on the AK (via front trunnion at rear and a separate locking piece that is handguard retainer on the barrel itself)

so, how to set up a bare basic thing to make it easier for an AK to free-float itself ?
i'd suggest you guys to carefully observe the way handguards are affixed on AK-12 (current version) and the trunnion part on it, how it differs from traditional AK and so,
(a sidenote, if you are able to understand same, then go straight to the current version of JVPC and OFB 5.56mm Carbine and observe front trunnion parts on those two as well, you might get some pleasant surprise)

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Now with these posts (and previous ones in past on AK front trunnion + iron sight block + free-floating of AK etc etc) i almost have cleared some basic requirements of making AK a free-floating pattern rifle,
that is to edit the way gas tube is mounted on the rifle (via that iron sight block) and // or change the way handguards are retained on the AK (via front trunnion at rear and a separate locking piece that is handguard retainer on the barrel itself)

so, how to set up a bare basic thing to make it easier for an AK to free-float itself ?
i'd suggest you guys to carefully observe the way handguards are affixed on AK-12 (current version) and the trunnion part on it, how it differs from traditional AK and so,
(a sidenote, if you are able to understand same, then go straight to the current version of JVPC and OFB 5.56mm Carbine and observe front trunnion parts on those two as well, you might get some pleasant surprise)

Image from a stratfront user by the name of maximus

Also noticed both are stripped by removing pins

 

[NotASussyBoi]

Frankly the new Ak 203 (top) we are purchasing is frankly the watered down version of the original Ak203(bottom). I would have loved if the army accepted the 7.62*51mm version INSAS.
View attachment 105038View attachment 105039

Not exactly confirmed i we might get the ak 203 watered down with telescopic stock plus an ak 203 without royaltie plus the new information is around 71k rupees close to 74k of ak 12 chances are we might use the upgraded ak 203 or ak 203 mixed with the ofb ak 203 or i hope not the ofb 203

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

What is the new land systems deal which TASS reported that russia has signed with india ?
Iam very confused.

 

[NotASussyBoi]

What is the new land systems deal which TASS reported that russia has signed with india ?
Iam very confused.

the infantry systems? i heard some media said they signed some deal for infantry stuff but no specifics

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

the infantry systems? i heard some media said they signed some deal for infantry stuff but no specifics

Did they, I mean did they sign ak 203 deal?

 

[NotASussyBoi]

Did they, I mean did they sign ak 203 deal?

My theory is we are upgrading to ak 15,idk if they signed it there