INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[Rahul Singh]

Sandeep Unnithan on JPVC police trials and other updates::


At 4.20 it is demonstrated that 5.56*30 penetrates a mild steel plate while 9mm fails.

@ 6:27 one can see suppressor in action. Possibly first time captured in action.

MP 7 for comparison........Ofcource enclosure does affect sound it makes.

 

[Amrk]

@ 6:27 one can see suppressor in action. Possibly first time captured in action.

MP 7 for comparison........Ofcource enclosure does affect sound it makes.

Yep, this is the first time I have seen it too.
As, for the noise, may be the silencer is not designed too suppress the noise completely, you can see the lugs on the barrel compared to grooves that western weapons employ, means some amount of gas will escape producing sound.
Though I suspect, MP7 is firing subsonic rounds, because no matter how good the suppressor is, it can't suppress the cracking sound, a supersonic round makes.
But these small matters can't take anything away from the fact that this is a magnificent weapon right from the concept to the actual weapon itself.
It seems that the weapon is already famous thanks to COD, we might be able to export it in addition to whatever orders it generates in India.

 

[Johny_Baba]

View attachment 20773

View attachment 20774
TRICHY AR

AR-M1

Can anyone give solid differences between two of them ?

Well,I think I've found a visible difference between TAR (Kalashnikov Variant) and Bulgarian AK.

OFB Trichy's gas block has flat profile at front,While Bulgarian AK's gas block is not that flat at front,in fact its profile is very similar to AK-74's gas block.

OFB Trichy

Bulgarian AK (probably AR-M1 or AR-M7)

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Now, Their is something to distinguish between these rifles ..

 

[Chinmoy]

Calling the

7.62x51 Sniper Rifle a DMR is wrong. A DMR has semi automatic fire capability, a magazine size of atleast 20 rounds and isn't visually glaringly different from an Assault Rifle.

The sniper rifle is bolt action, and manually loaded, if I'm not wrong.

If you go by the definition, you are right. DMR concept has been created by US army to bridge the gap between regular infantry and long range sniper. For others its just regular infantry or sniper. For example IA use Dragunov in DMR role, but it is been designated as a sniper rifle. Moreover the concept of marksman changes from theatre to theatre.

 

[Vorschlaghammer]

On the subject of reverse engineering, what would it have been like if ARDE/OFB decided to reverse engineer and iron out the kinks from the HAC-7 battle rifle for our 7.62 NATO rifle requirement ? In theory it's a good rifle, combining AK fire control group and bolt, AR gas tube and upper-lower design, kind of like a hybrid of AK, AR, and FAL. Full disassembly can be done with a cartridge, has folding buttstock.

The patents have already expired, what would it be like if it was further refined with better metallurgy, muzzle brake etc ?

Forgotten weapons has a nice video about it, and Ian mentions that the recoil is light.

 

[devhensh]

The INSAS MK1C is a good product and there are various other OFB products in caliber 7.62x39 and the latest in 7.62x 51mm......

But what i sincerely hope, is that DRDO/OFB, come up with a single small arms platform, which can cover, all the diverse weapon system requirements of our diverse and great nation.....doesn't matter even if it's by reverse engineering(no need to reinvent the wheel, and we are capable of sending space missions and ballistics missiles)... (The MCIWS comes to mind, but i believe it's not designed for 7.62X51).....

As per me, such a platform should be based upon the FN SCAR 17, simply because it's most reliable 7.62X51mm, battle tested platform TODAY... Also, this is the softest shooting 7.62X51mm rifle till date...

The vedio below (by a small company called Handl Defence), shows almost any configuration is possible with this rifle.......A single platform, which can be configured as diffrent models(from factory) either in a Battle Rifle/DMR (7.62x 51) or main assault rifle (5.56x45) or a 7.62x39mm rifle for counterinsurgency ....even a very good PDW is possible...I can write pages about this platform, but instead, will let you folks watch and form your opinion

 

[binayak95]

If you go by the definition, you are right. DMR concept has been created by US army to bridge the gap between regular infantry and long range sniper. For others its just regular infantry or sniper. For example IA use Dragunov in DMR role, but it is been designated as a sniper rifle. Moreover the concept of marksman changes from theatre to theatre.

The IA uses the Dragunov as a DMR! Becuase it fires the 7.62x54R round, has a 10 round mag, and a decent rate of fire. ParaSF and MARCOS use the Galatz, Garuds use the DMR variant of the Tavor. All have the same ability - to fire multiple rounds onto the target rapidly.
In a live battle environment, you want the ability to put multiple rounds on target in a short span of time. Inducting a bolt action, slow firing Sniper rifle which can engage targets upto 800 meters only is idiocy. Only when you have extended range engagements (above 1.2 km) where extreme accuracy is a necessity, do operators switch to bolt action large calibre rifles. Most fire either the 12.7mm or .338 Lapua Magnum round.

 

[Brij Ray]

Wee need to give License to private firms so that they can invest and build their own products and also test them in their own private shooting ranges.

 

[Steven Rogers]

Wee need to give License to private firms so that they can invest and build their own products and also test them in their own private shooting ranges.

They mostly ended up assembling foreign products at high cost..their is a reason why gov has taken decades to give any major contract to the private firms.

 

[Chinmoy]

The IA uses the Dragunov as a DMR! Becuase it fires the 7.62x54R round, has a 10 round mag, and a decent rate of fire. ParaSF and MARCOS use the Galatz, Garuds use the DMR variant of the Tavor. All have the same ability - to fire multiple rounds onto the target rapidly.
In a live battle environment, you want the ability to put multiple rounds on target in a short span of time. Inducting a bolt action, slow firing Sniper rifle which can engage targets upto 800 meters only is idiocy. Only when you have extended range engagements (above 1.2 km) where extreme accuracy is a necessity, do operators switch to bolt action large calibre rifles. Most fire either the 12.7mm or .338 Lapua Magnum round.

First of all, what is DMR or even what is a Designated Marksman?

He is one of the factor in a unit who is designated to provide shots over extended distance compared to others in the unit. Now technically a marksman doesn't fire a volume of rounds like his counter part. Moreover in IA doctrine, we don't follow the US way of suppresive fire. If you do follow the IA training its all about placing minimum volume with maximum accuracy.

A DMR is nothing but a rifle with high accuracy over extended range. If you do follow US army, they make use of 5.56 round for DMR purpose along with 7.62. So basically its all about how you are trained to carry out one specific job. 7.62x54 Dragunov round is used as a sniper as well as DMR purpose. If you are being trained in suppressive firing you would want a semi auto or full auto as DMR but if you are being trained for selective firing then it really doesn't matter what you use for the purpose. Anyway if you follow British Army, they do have this concept of Mad Minute.

Moreover the line differentiating a Sniper rifle and DMR is too blur. Opposed of what popularly believed, most of the sniper engagement does happen at a range of 500 to 1000 mtr max. So even INSAS and INSAS LMG with 700mtr range could be used as a DMR based on US concept. But if you have to follow IA concept, we do need a much more accurate rifle for DMR. Moreover accuracy of Dragunov and INSAS LMG at 700 mtr is almost same, only difference is Dragunov does have a better kill ratio at that range.

Anyway IA is not using Ishapore rifle either in DMR role or in Sniper role.

 

[Shaitan]

They mostly ended up assembling foreign products at high cost..their is a reason why gov has taken decades to give any major contract to the private firms.

That's because of India's own socialist policies. Most of the government agencies also just license produce from DRDO or outside companies, HAL is starting to dive into it's own IP.

Small companies like Tonbo Imagings without the big bang roll, infrastructure are producing their own products.

Hell, they even roped in a big DPSU in one of their export orders.

http://tech.economictimes.indiatime...frica-eu-with-25m-defence-gear-order/58020796

"Along with our electro-optics systems, we have the opportunity to offer radars and other equipment [as well]," said Arvind Lakshmikumar, CEO, Tonbo Imaging. He added: "For this, we have been proposing the integration of Indian Public Sector Unit (PSU), Bharat Electronics (BEL) system."

While the customers want a different radar manufactured by the US, the startup has been pushing for the use of BEL radars, he said.

Even the Indian automotive private sector have started from license production, look where they are at now compared to Hindustan motors.

Even when Bharat Forge was sourced to fire it's gun outside India, because none would let it test it in India, look where they are at now in the artillery scene in a matter of couple of years.

The idea of private sector teaming up with experienced outside OEMs to produce assembly plants, testing ranges, and overall exposure to defence project management is a great idea.

 

[Brij Ray]

Here is a typical example of how Innovators and Entrepreneurs are stifled by Red-tapism

 

[devhensh]

Even the Indian automotive private sector have started from license production, look where they are at now compared to Hindustan motors.

This is a very good and valid comparison.....The Private sector should be given more free hand to invest and develop world leading small arms platforms.....

There are a lot of US and European companies, which are world leaders and have more than 100 years of rich experience..(specially due to the positive Political environment, US govenment will encourage such partnerships)....Punj Lloyd & IWI have already started the trend..

Private sector should partner with these foreign firms, absorb their technology, and adapt to indian needs .....then they can partner with big defence PSUs for mass production and adoption by armed forces........

If we follow this path, in next 10 years, we would be completely independent in small arms and may even be one of the major exporters..

 

[Shaitan]

Sandeep just put up a new thumbnail of the new 7.62x51 OFB rifle.

 

[WolfPack86]

This rifle is looking beautiful and par with international standards. Indian Army should induct this rifle at asap. Not the imported rifle. To all forum members wish you very happy diwali.

 

[ezsasa]

Here is a typical example of how Innovators and Entrepreneurs are stifled by Red-tapism

Chill Saar!!

The guy is a pioneer, pioneers and pathfinders will have problems. Even govt has to have relook at old regulatory mechanisms since this is first time an individual is building a commercial plane, moreover Maharashtra govt is an investor in his project.


His plane will take off..

 

[Aghore_King]

Sandeep just put up a new thumbnail of the new 7.62x51 OFB rifle.

looking coooooolll...............

 

[Pandora]

Sandeep just put up a new thumbnail of the new 7.62x51 OFB rifle.

Where ?????…...............................

Sandeep just put up a new thumbnail of the new 7.62x51 OFB rifle.

Metal Magzine probably SLR one and No FAB like mods in foldable butts.Inviting all factors to get rejected

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Go few pages back, you can see such butt-stock on this rifle ..

Though, I am against such designs ..

Metal Magzine probably SLR one and No FAB like mods in foldable butts.Inviting all factors to get rejected