INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[abingdonboy]

I had posted a speech by economic advisor to finance ministry earlier, he says current Govt's approach is willingness to accept the fact that nothing is going to be 100% perfect at the start.

They'd rather have short term cyclic iterative loops with inbuilt feedback process rather planning commission's "wait until everything is ready and until then do nothing in between " approach.

Probably that is what is happening here, when IA's time comes Govt will say CRPF is already using it for some time what's your problem in accepting it?

Hope this mindset does trickle down to the MoD but it still seems that even after 3 years this is lacking- the armed forces are still operating on another planet, especially the IA. Since Modi took over $25B worth of tenders have been cancelled by the armed forces for one reason or another, modernisation is all but ceased as a result but the armed forces keep crying that they are victims of this situation.

 

[ezsasa]

Hope this mindset does trickle down to the MoD but it still seems that even after 3 years this is lacking- the armed forces are still operating on another planet, especially the IA. Since Modi took over $25B worth of tenders have been cancelled by the armed forces for one reason or another, modernisation is all but ceased as a result but the armed forces keep crying that they are victims of this situation.

Regarding tenders, the pattern seems to be that all pending stuck tenders issued prior to Nov 2016 are being re-tendered as per DPP 2016.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

ITBP need serious up-gradation via Indigenous solutions ..

 

[Twinblade]

Earlier JVPC was 9mm
Now it is 556 x 30

I am saying it won't be changed further hopefully.

The original partnership with STK to develop a firearm in this category fell apart long back. STK came up with a similar layout gun in 9mm called CPW with a completely different action (blowback vs gas operated on msmc).

JVPC/MSMC/Milaap has been 5.56x30 mm since the beginning.

 

[soikot banerjee]

I had posted a speech by economic advisor to finance ministry earlier, he says current Govt's approach is willingness to accept the fact that nothing is going to be 100% perfect at the start.

They'd rather have short term cyclic iterative loops with inbuilt feedback process rather planning commission's "wait until everything is ready and until then do nothing in between " approach.

Probably that is what is happening here, when IA's time comes Govt will say CRPF is already using it for some time what's your problem in accepting it?

Also they will be the first to use the HAL mini UAV, were first to use the ghatak AR, TAR, Excalibur and now INSAS 1C and JVPC.
As per my knowledge IA has ongoing tenders for Carbine, Mini UAV hence the induction in CRPF may be a demo to the IA that if they continue to the path of RFI , RFP and Reject theory, then in long run even the state police forces may be more modernised in terms of small arms than them.
Induction of these indigenous weapons also rules out the famous reason to support the non acceptance of indigenous platforms given by social media fanboys that we can't give unreliable guns to soldiers.
BTW do IA has any ongoing tenders for 7.62*39 rifles or plans to replace existing one?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

MSMC concept predates STK CPW, I remember you countered a polish guy at MP.net that time ..

The original partnership with STK to develop a firearm in this category fell apart long back. STK came up with a similar layout gun in 9mm called CPW with a completely different action (blowback vs gas operated on msmc).

JVPC/MSMC/Milaap has been 5.56x30 mm since the beginning.

 

[Kchontha]

@soikot Banarjee
No, not at the moment. I don't think they will issue tender for 7.62x39 replacement. If they issue tender for its replacement than they won't be issuing tenders for insas replacement by saying "look we are using ak against the terrorists because of lack of stopping power of insas" etc etc.

 

[S.Balaji]

This is a watershed moment for our indigenous small arms industry, Extremely happy to see 2nd generation of INSAS in the form of Excalibur MK 1C being inducted into armed forces.It was a gut wrenching wait for all us.... waiting for this moment to arrive, we had to put up with so many detractors in MSM banding out article after article bad mouthing our own INSAS. JVPC is an icing on the cake. Jai Hind.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Didn't knew that Tajaikstan also use INSAS family of firearms ..

 

[aditya g]

HM in Srinagar. So the systems seen here would be available in field.

Note corner shot and OFB Sniper.

ID the tripod mounted device?

 

[Twinblade]

^^ The tripod mounted device looks like some sort of battlefield surveillance radar (not the BEL one).
THe cornershot is the originally Israeli one.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Earlier JVPC was 9mm
Now it is 556 x 30

I am saying it won't be changed further hopefully.

JVPC Was never 9mm........"..........

 

[porky_kicker]

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[abingdonboy]

INSAS Excalibur:

 

[Shaitan]

Well, we're about to see a lot of JVPCs going around.

===============================================

The weapon is produced by state-owned ordnance factories and is close to meeting the army's rigorous testing standards.

As the DRDO-OFB combine wait for the Army order, they have decided to offer the carbine to the police and paramilitary forces. Their optimism is not unfounded. Police forces are looking to modernise WWII era weapon inventories. Imports are not just expensive, but also subject to controls by host nations- German manufacturer Heckler and Koch has repeatedly cited human rights violations by Indian security forces as reason to deny exports.


The Chhattisgarh police became the first to order the weapon this year-640 of them-with similar orders expected from the Madhya Pradesh, Delhi and Meghalaya police. India's paramilitary forces are another potential buyer. Its designers estimate the firearm has the potential to replace nearly 400,000 obsolete weapons, an order worth over Rs 45,000 crore (including ammunition).

"We have the production capacity to make around 35,000 such carbines each year," says H.R. Dixit, general manager, Small Arms Factory (SAF), Kanpur. This Indian carbine's transition from virtual to real could prove to be a potential game changer.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/modern-sub-machine-carbine-drdo-indian-army/1/1042902.html

 

[abingdonboy]

Well, we're about to see a lot of JVPCs going around.

===============================================

The weapon is produced by state-owned ordnance factories and is close to meeting the army's rigorous testing standards.

As the DRDO-OFB combine wait for the Army order, they have decided to offer the carbine to the police and paramilitary forces. Their optimism is not unfounded. Police forces are looking to modernise WWII era weapon inventories. Imports are not just expensive, but also subject to controls by host nations- German manufacturer Heckler and Koch has repeatedly cited human rights violations by Indian security forces as reason to deny exports.


The Chhattisgarh police became the first to order the weapon this year-640 of them-with similar orders expected from the Madhya Pradesh, Delhi and Meghalaya police. India's paramilitary forces are another potential buyer. Its designers estimate the firearm has the potential to replace nearly 400,000 obsolete weapons, an order worth over Rs 45,000 crore (including ammunition).

"We have the production capacity to make around 35,000 such carbines each year," says H.R. Dixit, general manager, Small Arms Factory (SAF), Kanpur. This Indian carbine's transition from virtual to real could prove to be a potential game changer.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/modern-sub-machine-carbine-drdo-indian-army/1/1042902.html

Really hope the IA gets its hands on this weapon also, it's sickening to see them still using the 9mm carbine that was designed before WW2!


400,000 would be a nice order but that would take them >10 years to fulfil at 35,000 units/annum. Hope production can be expanded to meet demand in the near future.

The scale at which India requires equipment is just staggering and I hope the suppliers can act accordingly.

 

[abingdonboy]

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View attachment 20007

Compared to the MP7:

JVPC is not far off just needs better iron sights and longer P-rail at 12 o'clock and 9/3 o'clock so attachments like flashlights can be added.


MP-7 also has a more practical foldable foreward grip:

 

[Shaitan]

If JVPC keeps getting massive orders, with the proliferation of it's 5.56x30, Amogh will also gain orders as well.

 

[Subham Show]

With the induction of JVPC I think the hopes fro MWICS or AAR are really high . Its high time it is acepted as they have accepted INSAS MK1C

 

[Twinblade]

Perfect. Now if only it had full length picatinny rail on top like the earlier models.