INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

[p2prada]

Only four air-to-air missiles? That's 2 BVR and 2 Infrared missiles... This is where catapult lunch is appreciated.

Armand's stuck in his own world. Mig-29As take off distance at MTOW was 400m using the 81KN RD-93 engines. Comparatively the Mig-29K has much more advanced aerodynamic solutions and 94KN engines during take off. The take off distance was reduced by half. There is a single 190m strip on the Gorky that allows Mig-29Ks to take off at full internal fuel of 5000 litres and full external fuel of 6000 litres.

The second shorter strip allows Mig-29s to take off at full internal fuel and 8 Air to Air missiles.

 

[bhramos]

Armand's stuck in his own world. Mig-29As take off distance at MTOW was 400m using the 81KN RD-93 engines. Comparatively the Mig-29K has much more advanced aerodynamic solutions and 94KN engines during take off. The take off distance was reduced by half. There is a single 190m strip on the Gorky that allows Mig-29Ks to take off at full internal fuel of 5000 litres and full external fuel of 6000 litres.

The second shorter strip allows Mig-29s to take off at full internal fuel and 8 Air to Air missiles.

what ever, their is a rumor going around they cant carry Brahmos ASCM..
if they take off with it, they need to land without it!!!
What do ya say..

 

[p2prada]

It is impossible for anything except for a Flanker sized aircraft to carry Brahmos. The missile alone is over 8 metres in length and will weigh 2.5 tons.

A new Brahmos "lite" will be developed for Mig-29 and Rafale.

Mig-29s will have to dump a lot of fuel in order to land.

 

[Armand2REP]

Armand's stuck in his own world. Mig-29As take off distance at MTOW was 400m using the 81KN RD-93 engines. Comparatively the Mig-29K has much more advanced aerodynamic solutions and 94KN engines during take off. The take off distance was reduced by half. There is a single 190m strip on the Gorky that allows Mig-29Ks to take off at full internal fuel of 5000 litres and full external fuel of 6000 litres.

The second shorter strip allows Mig-29s to take off at full internal fuel and 8 Air to Air missiles.

MiG-29As MTOW take off distance was 1200m using RD-33. RD-93 is a special redesign for the gear box of the JF-17, The MiG-29K carries more fuel than the A so any increase in thrust is lost to weight. The 29K is less aerodynamic than the A model being a naval adaptation requiring arrestor gear and bigger fuel tanks. The longest launch position on the Gorky is 180m which allows the MiG-29k to take off will full fuel and a load-out of AAMs. It can't carry a strike load without ditching an equal amount of fuel.

The 160m launch position allows full fuel and no weapons, or reduced tank and 4X AAMs.

 

[p2prada]

MiG-29As MTOW take off distance was 1200m using RD-33. RD-93 is a special redesign for the gear box of the JF-17, The MiG-29K carries more fuel than the A so any increase in thrust is lost to weight. The 29K is less aerodynamic than the A model being a naval adaptation requiring arrestor gear and bigger fuel tanks. The longest launch position on the Gorky is 180m which allows the MiG-29k to take off will full fuel and a load-out of AAMs. It can't carry a strike load without ditching an equal amount of fuel.

The 160m launch position allows full fuel and no weapons, or reduced tank and 4X AAMs.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...-gorshkov-aircraft-carrier-38.html#post266253

The MiG-29K power plant consisted of two RD-33K by-pass engines with complex digital control system. The maximum thrust was increased to 5,500 kgf, the maximum afterburner thrust reached 8,800 kgf. Unlike the RD-33K turbojet mounted on the MiG-29M, the shipborne aircraft engines featured an emergency mode, during which a temporary (short time) thrust increase to 9,400 kgf was possible. Thanks to the emergency mode, an aircraft with the take off weight of 17,700 kg could take off from the first starting position (in this case the take off run was 105 m), and a 22,400-kg heavy plane could take off from the second starting position (in this case the take off run amounted to 195 m).

I had posted this a long time ago. Too bad the actual site is gone. Also, guess what! This article does not even talk about the latest Mig-29K, this is the 90s version of Mig-29K of which only two were built for tests.

The 195m position, not 160m(a number you probably pulled out of your behind), is plenty for Mig-29K to take off at 22.5 tons. I still don't get how a 283m carrier cannot have a take off point of 190-200m, rather only half the length. Try measuring with a scale.

If you look at post 556, you yourself quoted that the Mig-29A would take off at full internal fuel and 4 AAMs the take off distance is 250m with the regular RD-33(not RD-93 that you "Oh So" generously pointed out).

Here is the quote:

In 1997, MiG-29 #407 was geared up for research into the possibility of reducing the take-off distance while taking off from the MT-1 mobile airfield ski-jump. The first take-off was performed on 24 December, 1997 by Flight Research Institute (LII) test pilot Sergei Tresvyatsky. The take-off run equaled 200 m, and it is planned to be reduced further down to 130-150m (with non-full fuel tanks). With full fuel storage and four missiles under the wing (2 R-27s and 2 R-73s, take-off weight about 15,400kg) the MiG-29 take-off run is estimated at 230-250m, which ensures, if necessary, emergency evacuation of the MiG-29-class aircraft from the airfields attacked by the adversary.

So, a 90s level Mig-29 takes off with with full internal fuel and 4 AAMs from 250m, but needs another 1000m if it adds 4 missiles more, according to your logic.

Keep your BS to yourself.

 

[Armand2REP]

lol at that source that no longer exists. My source does and explains it well...

The max gross takeoff weight is at 18,500 kg. (40,785 lbs.), which is 500 kg (1100 lbs) above the first 100 series produced aircraft. The 38,472 lbs. normal combat configured takeoff weight leaves very little for growth. Takeoff Speed is specified at 260-280 kph. with takeoff distance running 1200 meters (3937 ft). A clean (14,970 kg) airshow style takeoff run with reheat could be accomplished at 250 meters and with dry power it would extend to 600-700 meters.

Fighter Aicraft, MiG-29/3

The load-outs you are talking about at that distance is absurd. If they could run MTOW at such distances, Russia and every nation looking at carriers wouldn't be concerned with getting catapults... what is the point?

Your comments are getting absurd.

 

[asianobserve]

One things is certain, a navalised Mig 29 (or any other plane) will always be heavier @ empty weight than an air force conventional version.

 

[Defcon 1]

P2p are u sure about this lite-brahmos?? Care to post a source. If true this will be great and also I believe this easily achievable as 300 km is overkill range for a anti ship missile. Even a 150 km range supersonic anti ship air launched missile will be a formidable weapon, and also it will provide a great export potential.

Plz post your source in the Brahmos missile thread.

 

[p2prada]

lol at that source that no longer exists. My source does and explains it well...



The load-outs you are talking about at that distance is absurd. If they could run MTOW at such distances, Russia and every nation looking at carriers wouldn't be concerned with getting catapults... what is the point?

Your comments are getting absurd.

The only reason the Indians need a catapult for Gorky type aircraft is for launching heavier AWACS and transport aircraft.

Anyway you don't understand the author's claims. The 1200m distance is for take off at dry power.
Some common sense might help.
From your own link:

A clean airshow style takeoff run with reheat could be accomplished at 250 meters and with dry power it would extend to 600-700 meters.

No one will be launching carrier borne Mig-29s using dry power. These are not figures for the modified K or even the versions closest to it.

P2p are u sure about this lite-brahmos?? Care to post a source. If true this will be great and also I believe this easily achievable as 300 km is overkill range for a anti ship missile. Even a 150 km range supersonic anti ship air launched missile will be a formidable weapon, and also it will provide a great export potential.

Plz post your source in the Brahmos missile thread.

It's already been posted.
Livefist: BrahMos Considers All-New AShM For MiG-29K & MMRCA

One things is certain, a navalised Mig 29 (or any other plane) will always be heavier @ empty weight than an air force conventional version.

You can say that. But Mig-29Ks official specs are not released for empty weight. The empty weight for a modern Mig-29 is quite low and the engines provide greater thrust to weight. With assorted equipment for carrier landing, there has been a slight increase in weight. With extra fuel and more thrust, the Mig-29K made in the 1980s reduced take off distance to 195m. A new engine is supposedly in development for more sustained thrust and possibly a much higher emergency thrust. So, all of this has increased capability of the Mig-29K many times. The two prototypes made in the 80s are not the same as the current version of the Mig-29K.

Simply because the Mig-29K can take off at MTOW from a carrier even the Russians find it a better aircraft, and they can have more at the same time.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Russian are using SU-33 for tests now..

kuleshovoleg - INS Vikramaditya. Полёты.

 

[p2prada]

I read some old reports which mentioned 6 NLCAs for Gorky functioning side by side with 12 Mig-29Ks. That would still leave 10-12 helicopters apart from 18 fighters. Seems the closest to the actual Gorky aircraft complement.

But I guess all of this is post 2020.

 

[Apollyon]

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[Armand2REP]

That radar mast is such an eye-soar.

 

[Zebra]

Since last few days I have observed so-called "INS Vikramaditya Sea Trial".

But the carrier is still somewhere near the coast only. When it will go in the middle of the sea?

Or as usual we have to accept few over priced contracts for that?

 

[Zebra]

Friday, 29 June 2012 Pioneer News Service | New Delhi

Fighter jets will land and take off for the first time from aircraft carrier Gorshkov rechristened INS Vikramaditya next month as part of aviation facility trials of the ship scheduled to join the Indian Navy in December.

Sea trials of the ship have already started and aviation facility trials considered to be the most critical trial of an aircraft carrier to test all aspects of flying will see Russian pilots deploying MIG-29Ks and MIG-35s for the purpose. The carrier worth over 2.3 billion dollars will have two squadrons (one squadron has 18 to 20 jets) of MIG 29Ks when it arrives in India mid next year.

Stating this here on Thursday, Navy officials said the Russians will check navigation, radars and landing facilities at the warship in presence of the Indian team. Indian pilots will start flying from the carrier after the ship is handed over after all mandatory checks sometime in October.

However, a team of Indian pilots is already in Russia to oversee flying operations by their Russian counterparts, officials said, adding the Indian Navy is already flying MIG-29Ks from its shore base in Goa.

Officials said the Russian Government has formally accepted the ship from the shipyard which refurbished it and after the Russian experts have tested all the operational facilities of the carrier over a period of next two and half months then the Indian Navy will accept delivery of the ship.

Expected to reach India in July next year, the carrier will have a 1,500-strong crew including officers and non-commissioned personnel. Weighing more than 45,000 tonnes, the ship will have helicopters besides a squadron of indigenously designed and manufactured Tejas light combat aircraft.

Vikramaditya trial from next month .

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The carrier worth over 2.3 billion dollars will have two squadrons

That is half the number of MIG-29K india have..

As i always told she can carry 30 aircrafts, indeed if you minus helos, And leave ASW ops to destroyers..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Some more Pics:

 

[Kunal Biswas]