INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

[Parthy]

Kunal,

I have serious reservations about that map,

If PLAN has placed fleets in Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Burma and in Pakistan. Then it is our Cuban Missile Crisis, We have already lost.The idea is to box them in South China Sea not let them get into IOR, I agree we need not go into South China Sea (SCS), but we should let them come out of SCS. At most Gwadar, PLAN may have some ships,but that gives India free hand in SCS. Also SCS is very cramped and small, with a lot of US allies sharing the real estate, even the US. China cannot assert its force there like we do in IOR, reason Korea and Japan wont allow. Nor will Vietnam.

Also if we need 3 carriers to be out in the open ocean in combat mdoe, we need 5-6 Carriers, As two will always go in repair and refit. There is no need of a carrier in the vicinity of Tri-Services Base, it in itself is a Carrier. A far more efficient one. We need Carrier's in the opening's of South China sea to Indian Ocean

PLAN can't make out a Naval base in Srilanka, Burma & Bangladesh.. We will not wait that far.. It is not going to happen that easily.. Might be only with Pakistan's Gwardar port... But even that cannot be used as a major Naval installation despite supplies from Pakistan... Our western Naval command is sufficient enough to take it out...

 

[Adux]

Hardly a efficient design. As the INS Cavour for example can carry as many Av-8B's and/or F-35's on 30,000 tons fully loaded.

It was always a compermise. The superstructure is unnecessarily big and is bit towards the center, than being right on the edge, maximizing the flight deck. The lift is not in the edge's but rather in the middle of the damn runway. Look here.

But we knew this, this was a compermise, a stop gap solution and we were ok with it , if it came in 2007 (navy wanted it in 2003), not now. As of now , we are stuck with it. But the Vikramaditya carries 21 MiG's and 13 Helicopters.

According to the project retrofitting an aircraft carrier, which must be passed to India in late 2012, on his deck, you can simultaneously accommodate 34 aircraft - 21 MiG-29K fighters and 13 helicopters.

Google Translate

 

[Adux]

The revised offer has surprised the Indian delegation stunned as it was expecting to find some �middle ground� to the earlier proposal made by Moscow. India has already paid $500 million as per terms of the initial contract. The Russian delegation has said that regardless of the outcome of this round of negotiations, Sevmarsh wants an immediate payment of $190 million for the work thats underway.

Do back up with links, have no idea what you are on about.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Kunal,

I have serious reservations about that map,

If PLAN has placed fleets in Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Burma and in Pakistan. Then it is our Cuban Missile Crisis, We have already lost.The idea is to box them in South China Sea not let them get into IOR, I agree we need not go into South China Sea (SCS), but we should let them come out of SCS. At most Gwadar, PLAN may have some ships,but that gives India free hand in SCS. Also SCS is very cramped and small, with a lot of US allies sharing the real estate, even the US. China cannot assert its force there like we do in IOR, reason Korea and Japan wont allow. Nor will Vietnam.

Also if we need 3 carriers to be out in the open ocean in combat mdoe, we need 5-6 Carriers, As two will always go in repair and refit. There is no need of a carrier in the vicinity of Tri-Services Base, it in itself is a Carrier. A far more efficient one. We need Carrier's in the opening's of South China sea to Indian Ocean

Kunal,
PLAN isnt the king of South CHina Sea (SCS), There are way too many powerful US allies, S.Korea, Singapore and Vietnam, Taiwan.

PLAN wont risk to send a big fleet inside IOR specially near Srilanka or Pakistan before WAR, Even now in peace time IN ships are in combat patrol over IOR and Bay of Bengal ( War is very much real over Seas ), PLAN submarine activities are very much in this region specially Burma, If PLAN send a taskforce before things are getting warm, Its imperative as per book, IN will take on that PLAN task-force first and other PLAN Installation across Bay of Bengal and IOR simultaneously keeping a strong blockade also once knowing the PLAN task-force is scattered, Merchant ships can be targeted, Regarding SK and Vietnam, none will dare to object such a powerful fleet in China sea, Nor US will intervene at first sight, Only after IN successful counter attack US might take some measures with other in UN, but again only after IN successful counter attack..


You right regading carrier deployments, In the map it shows three carriers but IN operations can go with two carriers, One at Arabian Sea and other in Bay of Bengal as a active reinforcement for Andaman`s IAF wings, The third in IOR will be mainly fast Frigates and Destroyers engaging Subs and Merchant ships..

 

[Parthy]

Harbour trials of Admiral Gorshkov to begin in Aug

Set for induction into the Indian Navy next year, harbour trials of the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov are expected to begin by August end in Russia.

These trials are aimed at testing the functioning of all the systems of the warship, senior Navy sources told PTI here.

The harbour trials will be followed up by sea trials which are expected to start by November where the major systems of the warship including its weapon firing capabilities would be put to test, they said.

The sources said that the warship is expected to be delivered as per the original schedule of December 2012. The 45,000 tonne, 283-metre aircraft carrier, rechristened INS Vikramaditya by the Indian Navy, is undergoing refit and repairs at the Sevmash shipyard in Russia.

During his recent visit to Russia, Defence Secretary Pradeep Kumar was taken to the Sevmash shipyard and shown the progress in work on the Gorshkov.

The contract for the warship was signed between India and Russia in 2004 but the cost escalation and price revision by Russia for retrofitting the ship were cited as reasons for the delay.

After long negotiations, the two sides had settled on USD 2.3 billion as the price of the second hand warship.

With only a lone aircraft carrier INS Virat being operated now, the Russian origin warship is key to India's plan of having one aircraft carrier each on both the seaboards.

Construction of another indigenous aircraft carrier is on in Kochi and is expected to be inducted into the navy by the end of 2014.


Harbour trials of Admiral Gorshkov to begin in Aug - Brahmand.com

 

[plugwater]

Russians to take more time to deliver Gorshkov

Russians to take more time to deliver Gorshkov - Tech News - IBNLive

 

[Shaitan]

Russians to take more time to deliver Gorshkov

Russians to take more time to deliver Gorshkov - Tech News - IBNLive

2013!!

OMG, this must be a joke!

St Petersburg: Amid the buzz at Russia's most happening naval show - the maritime exhibition at St Petersburg - word is that the Gorshkov aircraft carrier could be further delayed. There's no official confirmation of that neither from the Sevmash shipyard nor the Russian Defence Ministry.
But naval sources told CNN-IBN there appeared to be problems with the supply of certain steels to the yard. The sources said this was an internal problem in Russia involving different ministries. But unless resolved speedily this could see the carrier's delivery put off to 2013.
A high level Indian defence delegation was recently at the Sevmash yard to take stock of the situation. It's not clear what new measures are being recommended to expedite delivery of the Gorshkov. What's clear is that the Indian Navy may have to wait some more time for the Gorshkov.
Problems also with the delivery of the second line of Talwar Class frigates - three of which are being built at the Yantar shipyard.
The first was to be handed over in November this year to the Indian Navy. But is now expected to be delivered only next February. Reason for the delay - because the Yantar yard is building warships after a long break. The chief of the shipyard was replaced.
The new chief - only 48 hours into his job - refused to comment but there was an oblique hint from elsewhere.
Deputy General Director at Rosoboronexport Viktor Komardin said, "We see different obstacles and hurdles on the way. Bureaucracy, then crisis of different kinds which raises the normal steps makes it twice more expensive. It is economy, it is bureaucracy. It is caution you understand because each project is the leading one."
The delay could see the cost of the Talwar go up. Adding to the acrimony between the two capitals and undermining a crucial pillar of the India-Russia partnership.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

May be India`s two carrier comes together..

Vikrant Class..
sea trials were initially planned to commence in 2013, with the ship to be commissioned in 2014

Till then we need to look some alternatives, IN need more harriers and vessels to carry them or in other words we are handicapped..

 

[Adux]

PLAN wont risk to send a big fleet inside IOR specially near Srilanka or Pakistan before WAR, Even now in peace time IN ships are in combat patrol over IOR and Bay of Bengal ( War is very much real over Seas ), PLAN submarine activities are very much in this region specially Burma, If PLAN send a taskforce before things are getting warm, Its imperative as per book, IN will take on that PLAN task-force first and other PLAN Installation across Bay of Bengal and IOR simultaneously keeping a strong blockade also once knowing the PLAN task-force is scattered, Merchant ships can be targeted, Regarding SK and Vietnam, none will dare to object such a powerful fleet in China sea, Nor US will intervene at first sight, Only after IN successful counter attack US might take some measures with other in UN, but again only after IN successful counter attack..


You right regading carrier deployments, In the map it shows three carriers but IN operations can go with two carriers, One at Arabian Sea and other in Bay of Bengal as a active reinforcement for Andaman`s IAF wings, The third in IOR will be mainly fast Frigates and Destroyers engaging Subs and Merchant ships..

See, when you have shortage of carriers, ie if you only have 3 of them. I wouldnt recommend sending them to the Arabian Sea or Bay of Bengal. These are areas which can be covered by Land based Naval Fighters. While, IOR is where our carriers should be.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

See, when you have shortage of carriers, ie if you only have 3 of them. I wouldnt recommend sending them to the Arabian Sea or Bay of Bengal. These are areas which can be covered by Land based Naval Fighters. While, IOR is where our carriers should be.

Yes, we do..

Presently Virrat`s Combat patrol with its escorts are in Arabian to west IOR..

In Naval warfare a vast Ocean or sea cannot be monitored by land base assets...

For, Till our carriers arrive we have to do what we are doing..

 

[Adux]

Yes, we do..

Presently Virrat`s Combat patrol with its escorts are in Arabian to west IOR..

In Naval warfare a vast Ocean or sea cannot be monitored by land base assets...

For, Till our carriers arrive we have to do what we are doing..

You will have your Frigates, DDG's all in the Arabian Sea and Bay of Bengal, but not your carriers, not needed when we can cover from land, while deep in the IOR and near the openings into the IOR we dont have such a luxury.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

You will have your Frigates, DDG's all in the Arabian Sea and Bay of Bengal, but not your carriers, not needed when we can cover from land, while deep in the IOR and near the openings into the IOR we dont have such a luxury.

@Adux,
Real time operation and quick reaction is all needed in ASW, A fleet borne ASW helo can spend more time in the suspicious zone more than any other land base ASW aircraft, A carrier also provide immediate air-support to counter any thread, It save lots of life by pushing the Bigger ships from line of fire, Virrat will be in bay of Bengal in time of need for support for the fleet, But as u said DDG`s and fast frigates will patrol other places where Air-power is less needed or supported by land based..

 

[Parthy]

Indian Navy Chief on six-day Russia visit


Indian Navy Chief Admiral Nirmal Verma has embarked on a six-day visit to Russia where he would visit facilities to take stock of major Indian naval projects underway in that country.

"Besides visiting the headquarters of Russian naval fleets, the Navy Chief would go to Sevmash shipyard to see the progress made in INS Vikramaditya project. He would also go to Vladivostok where the MiG-29K project is based," Navy officials said here.

Admiral Verma would also visit the Yantar shipyard in Kaliningrad where the follow-up of Talwar class project is going on, officials said.

During the tour, Verma will visit Russian Navy's Headquarters and would call on the commanders of Pacific fleet based in Vladivostok, North Sea fleet and White Sea base.

Verma will also check the progress made in basin trials of INS Vikramaditya which would be commissioned into Indian Navy by the end of 2012.

"During the basin trials, all the systems and machines in a ship are operated and their performance is checked in a confined area," added the officials.

Looking forward to operating a three-carrier fleet by the end of this decade, the 40,000 tonne and 283-metre long INS Vikramaditya would fill a big gap in Indian Navy's strength which is currently working with its sole aircraft carrier INS Viraat.

MiG-29 K programme had suffered a jolt when one of the aircraft crashed on June 23, killing both its pilots in Russia.

The Russian-built MiG-29 K is operated only by the Indian Navy and is located in Goa naval base.


Indian Navy Chief on six-day Russia visit - Brahmand.com

 

[Crusader53]

2013!!

OMG, this must be a joke!

Typical......

 

[lambu]

‘Aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov shaping up for sea trials’ | idrw.org

 

[sathya]

self delete ..
wrong thread

 

[raja696]

I dnt know y but i believe media is over magnifying the costs and these days its trying to shift people trust from pro russia to pro usa, any way part of news is true.. I would never forget the help done by Russians to India in difficult times. And inside deals of defense would never come to public and i think we are benefited more in technology from Russians than we are spending to buy now.

 

[ace009]

I dnt know y but i believe media is over magnifying the costs and these days its trying to shift people trust from pro russia to pro usa, any way part of news is true.. I would never forget the help done by Russians to India in difficult times. And inside deals of defense would never come to public and i think we are benefited more in technology from Russians than we are spending to buy now.

Not true - the costs have been going up steadily ever since India has struck the deal with Russia. It is like a hook caught in India's mouth (MoD) - the Russian shipbuilders keep differing the delivery date and raising the costs and India keeps on accepting the shit because of the already sunk costs. If MoD had any guts, they should put their foot down and issue a deadline - if not delivered, they should ask for the money back for whatever work has not been done and ask them to have the ship delivered to India ANYWAY they can - by towing, on a oil tanker - anyway possible.
That should teach the Russians a lesson in trying to jerk off with India. Since they lost the MMRCA deal (Mig-35), they have been playing dirty with India - the IN-RuN exercise being canceled AFTER the IN ships went all the way to Russia!
If India needs Russian weapons/ technology, Russian defense industry needs Indian money too. Actually, India can get most of the technology from other countries - Russia can try all they might but will never get another well-behaved high paying customer like India.
As for Russia being a friend in the past - it was more the Soviet Union - a completely different country, with different strategic vision, direction, policies, politics and military might. The present day Russia is a shadow of the USSR and is more mean than mighty.

 

[pmaitra]

I dnt know y but i believe media is over magnifying the costs and these days its trying to shift people trust from pro russia to pro usa, any way part of news is true.. I would never forget the help done by Russians to India in difficult times. And inside deals of defense would never come to public and i think we are benefited more in technology from Russians than we are spending to buy now.

Once the deal is struck, Russia is bound to stick to it. However, I learnt from a source (unverified) that Russia did, at the first instance of cost escalation, offer to return the money India already paid and cancel the deal, but India chose to stick to the deal. I have seen videos of the refurbishing and it indeed needed a lot of work. There is inflation and labour costs in Russia have risen after the first decade following the collapse of the USSR and has been on a constant rise. Even Russian Military has had troubles with Russian Defense contractors. I would put a part of the blame on the Russians, not the whole as being portrayed by the media.

 

[Crusader53]

Personally, I wouldn't be at all surprised. To see the ex-Gorshkov (Vikramaditya) turn out to be extremely expensive to operate and maintain.