INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

[StealthSniper]

 

[StealthSniper]

 

[Patriot]

'Delays in Indo-Russian defence projects must be excused'

CHAUBATTIA, UTTARAKHAND (PTI): Russia has defended the delays in joint defence projects
with India, including the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier, saying it should be "excused" if sophisticated and modern weapon system was what New Delhi wanted.

Though time overruns were "unfortunate," Russian Federation Ambassador to India Alexander M Kadakin said it was the experience in both countries when it came to latest technology defence equipment projects.

"As far as Admiral Gorshkov is concerned, Indians asked us for a state-of-the-art warship and for such a warship, there is a cost. For a cheap price, you can only purchase a 3-carat diamond.

"Now it will be a modern aircraft carrier and if there is a delay of two or three months for delivery, what difference would it make. If you need a potent warship, these delays have to be excused," Kadakin told reporters on the sidelines of an Indo-Russian army exercise that ended here Sunday.

Personnel of Indian and Russian armies during the joint Indo-Russian military exercise Indra-2010 at Chaubattia in Uttarakhand on Saturday. PTI Photo

India had flagged the delays in critical defence projects such as Gorshkov during the recent bilateral Military Technical Commission meeting between the Defence Ministers of the two countries in New Delhi.

Admiral Gorshkov, which India bought from Russia in 2004, is already behind schedule by two years, having been originally scheduled to be delivered after a refit at the Sevmash naval shipyard in Russia in 2008.

Now the 45,000-tonne warship is rescheduled for delivery in end of 2012 or early 2013, though India coughed up USD 2.33 billion earlier this year after it had bought it for a price of USD 974 million under the original contract.

Kadakin said such experiences existed in both countries and that it should be excused when the project involved sophisticated systems.

"Both countries have this experience that without delays we will not get such sophisticated systems. That is why sometimes this kind of delays do happen. It is unfortunate," he said.

He was replying to a query on delays in major defence projects between India and Russia such as the Admiral Gorshkov, which has been rechristened by Indian Navy as INS Vikramaditya.

The Ambassador, however, refused to talk about India getting the Akula-II nuclear-powered submarine from Russia on a 10-year lease.

"Akula, I do not know anything about it. Let's talk about any other submarine; I do not know anything about this particular submarine. India, I know, is also constructing a (nuclear-powered) submarine. About this submarine (Akula), do not ask me anything, I do not know anything," he said.




http://www.brahmand.com/news/Delays-in-Indo-Russian-defence-projects-must-be-excused/5274/1/14.html

 

[Patriot]

Gorshkov Carrier: Good Things Are Worth Waiting For

BY: Nicolas von Kospoth / defpro.com

The Indian Navy is still waiting for the delivery of the Russian-built aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov), which has been scheduled for December 2012. As Indian Defence Minister Shri A.K. Antony recently informed the government, the delay of the delivery is, in particular, due to the "requirement of additional works and change in the scope of trials." According to the Indian Press Information Bureau, the Minister explained that these additional refurbishments of the giant vessel will significantly increase service life. The carrier is currently docked at the Russian Sevmash shipyard.

The Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier was launched in 1982 and entered service with the Russian Navy in 1987. In 2004 Russia agreed to sell the aircraft carrier, which required serious refurbishment and modernisation, to India. However, payment issues and unexpectedly intensive work requirements repeatedly forced Russia to delay the ship's delivery. Should the carrier finally join the Indian Navy in 2012, it will see active service after sixteen years of being moored in Russian ports and shipyards since it was offered for sale in 1996.

The procurement of the Admiral Gorshkov has certainly caused stomach aches to the one or the other member of the Indian government, as the costs have steadily increased throughout recent years. Originally, India agreed to purchase the ship at a price of $974 million. Subsequently, this amount has been increased by an additional $1.5 billion. However, the aged Admiral Gorshkov required more than a new layer of paint and a little smooth and polish. The money was quickly spent by the Russian shipyard, which underestimated the required amount of work. Further, according to Antony, the original contract was supplemented by "an exhaustive list of equipment to be fitted on the ship."

In March, on the occasion of an official visit of Russian President Vladimir Putin to India, the two countries announced the signature of an agreement for an additional $2.35 billion in support of the carrier's refurbishment and training of Indian naval crews; these additional funds had already been approved by the Indian government months before the bilateral meeting. This sums up to a proud price tag for a vessel which has been criticised by some defence experts for being too expensive while not providing the state-of-the-art capabilities required by the Indian Navy in the current security-political environment

As the Minister explained this summer, a team of Indian specialists, comprising officers, sailors and civilian personnel, have been sent to Russia to monitor the progress of work onboard the ship. In June, the Indian Navy expressed delight at the Sevmash shipyard's progress. "The pace of work has picked up significantly in the last six months. This can be attributed to the additional deployment of manpower for the refurbishment of the aircraft carrier," Indian Navy spokesperson Commander Satish told an Indian news service.

The Admiral Gorshkov, which has been rechristened as INS Vikramaditya by India, is a modified Kiev-class carrier. It reportedly has a displacement capacity of 45,000 tons, a maximum speed of 32 knots and a range of 13,500 nautical miles (25,000 kilometres) at a cruising speed of 18 knots. The ship will accommodate Russian-built MiG-29K fighter aircraft, which have already been purchased for some $526 million along with the aircraft carrier in 2004. The aircraft are configured for Short Take Off But Arrested Landing (STOBAR), take-offs being supported by the ship's prominent ski-jump ramp. The first batch of MiG-29Ks has been inducted into the Indian Navy earlier this year and will operate from the shore-based facility at INS Hansa in Goa until the aircraft carrier will be delivered.

Despite the criticism, INS Vikramaditya will provide the Indian Navy with a significant platform to project military power to every corner of the world's oceans. The country, thereby, enters a currently very exclusive club of operators of aircraft carriers which do not rely on STOVL (Short Take Off, Vertical Landing) aircraft. This week, the UK's last Harrier STOVL aircraft was launched from HMS Ark Royal and the country will not receive its new aircraft carrier, planned to accommodate F-35C joint strike fighters, in the near future. Furthermore, France repeatedly experiences technical difficulties with its Charles de Gaulle. In addition to the operator of the world's largest fleet of aircraft carriers for conventional fighter aircraft, the United States, there only remain Brazil (NAe São Paulo) and Thailand (HTMS Chakri Naruebet).

Daniel Goure of the Lexington Institute recently said about the US carriers: "There is no more strategically agile, operationally responsive and tactically flexible platform than the aircraft carrier" . Although India is far from reaching the United States' level of capabilities provided by its numerous aircraft carriers, the long waiting time for the INS Vikramaditya may eventually pay off.







http://idrw.org/?p=1559

 

[Crusader53]

Gorshkov Carrier: Good Things Are Worth Waiting For

BY: Nicolas von Kospoth / defpro.com

The Indian Navy is still waiting for the delivery of the Russian-built aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov), which has been scheduled for December 2012. As Indian Defence Minister Shri A.K. Antony recently informed the government, the delay of the delivery is, in particular, due to the "requirement of additional works and change in the scope of trials." According to the Indian Press Information Bureau, the Minister explained that these additional refurbishments of the giant vessel will significantly increase service life. The carrier is currently docked at the Russian Sevmash shipyard.

The Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier was launched in 1982 and entered service with the Russian Navy in 1987. In 2004 Russia agreed to sell the aircraft carrier, which required serious refurbishment and modernisation, to India. However, payment issues and unexpectedly intensive work requirements repeatedly forced Russia to delay the ship's delivery. Should the carrier finally join the Indian Navy in 2012, it will see active service after sixteen years of being moored in Russian ports and shipyards since it was offered for sale in 1996.

The procurement of the Admiral Gorshkov has certainly caused stomach aches to the one or the other member of the Indian government, as the costs have steadily increased throughout recent years. Originally, India agreed to purchase the ship at a price of $974 million. Subsequently, this amount has been increased by an additional $1.5 billion. However, the aged Admiral Gorshkov required more than a new layer of paint and a little smooth and polish. The money was quickly spent by the Russian shipyard, which underestimated the required amount of work. Further, according to Antony, the original contract was supplemented by "an exhaustive list of equipment to be fitted on the ship."

In March, on the occasion of an official visit of Russian President Vladimir Putin to India, the two countries announced the signature of an agreement for an additional $2.35 billion in support of the carrier's refurbishment and training of Indian naval crews; these additional funds had already been approved by the Indian government months before the bilateral meeting. This sums up to a proud price tag for a vessel which has been criticised by some defence experts for being too expensive while not providing the state-of-the-art capabilities required by the Indian Navy in the current security-political environment

As the Minister explained this summer, a team of Indian specialists, comprising officers, sailors and civilian personnel, have been sent to Russia to monitor the progress of work onboard the ship. In June, the Indian Navy expressed delight at the Sevmash shipyard's progress. "The pace of work has picked up significantly in the last six months. This can be attributed to the additional deployment of manpower for the refurbishment of the aircraft carrier," Indian Navy spokesperson Commander Satish told an Indian news service.

The Admiral Gorshkov, which has been rechristened as INS Vikramaditya by India, is a modified Kiev-class carrier. It reportedly has a displacement capacity of 45,000 tons, a maximum speed of 32 knots and a range of 13,500 nautical miles (25,000 kilometres) at a cruising speed of 18 knots. The ship will accommodate Russian-built MiG-29K fighter aircraft, which have already been purchased for some $526 million along with the aircraft carrier in 2004. The aircraft are configured for Short Take Off But Arrested Landing (STOBAR), take-offs being supported by the ship's prominent ski-jump ramp. The first batch of MiG-29Ks has been inducted into the Indian Navy earlier this year and will operate from the shore-based facility at INS Hansa in Goa until the aircraft carrier will be delivered.

Despite the criticism, INS Vikramaditya will provide the Indian Navy with a significant platform to project military power to every corner of the world's oceans. The country, thereby, enters a currently very exclusive club of operators of aircraft carriers which do not rely on STOVL (Short Take Off, Vertical Landing) aircraft. This week, the UK's last Harrier STOVL aircraft was launched from HMS Ark Royal and the country will not receive its new aircraft carrier, planned to accommodate F-35C joint strike fighters, in the near future. Furthermore, France repeatedly experiences technical difficulties with its Charles de Gaulle. In addition to the operator of the world's largest fleet of aircraft carriers for conventional fighter aircraft, the United States, there only remain Brazil (NAe São Paulo) and Thailand (HTMS Chakri Naruebet).

Daniel Goure of the Lexington Institute recently said about the US carriers: "There is no more strategically agile, operationally responsive and tactically flexible platform than the aircraft carrier" . Although India is far from reaching the United States' level of capabilities provided by its numerous aircraft carriers, the long waiting time for the INS Vikramaditya may eventually pay off.







http://idrw.org/?p=1559

The IAC-1 is far more capable and cheaper to maintain and operate.......Really, India should have contracted a third party like South Korea to build one IAC-1. In addition to the one currently under construction in India. Then India would have had two identical Carriers.

 

[civfanatic]

The IAC-1 is far more capable and cheaper to maintain and operate.......Really, India should have contracted a third party like South Korea to build one IAC-1. In addition to the one currently under construction in India. Then India would have had two identical Carriers.

I am not disagreeing with you, but how do you know the capabilities of the IAC-1 before it is even completed?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The IAC-1 is far more capable and cheaper to maintain and operate.......Really, India should have contracted a third party like South Korea to build one IAC-1. In addition to the one currently under construction in India. Then India would have had two identical Carriers.

IAC-1 probably more capable coz it can carry more Aircraft and reported to be much better protected than Vikramaditya..

IAC-2 probably a bit longer than IAC-1/VIKARAMADITYA, But this can be done in Indian Docks..

Btw, Making two ships together is a good Idea, But again if MOD is ok with it..

Vikaramaditya :
Length: 273 m (896 ft)
Beam: 32.6 m (107 ft)
Draught: 10 m (33 ft)


IAC-1:
Length: 262 metres (860ft)
Beam: 60 metres (197ft)
Draught: 8.4 metres (28ft)


IAC-2 / Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carrier:
Length: 284 metres
Beam: 73 metres
Draught: 11 metres

 

[RAM]

crosspost

Gorshkov Carrier: Good Things Are Worth Waiting For
http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/702/?SID=41dc13ea9426d9c8f41da7cb00209641

10:51 GMT, November 26, 2010 defpro.com | The Indian Navy is still waiting for the delivery of the Russian-built aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov), which has been scheduled for December 2012. As Indian Defence Minister Shri A.K. Antony recently informed the government, the delay of the delivery is, in particular, due to the "requirement of additional work and changes in the scope of trials." According to the Indian Press Information Bureau, the Minister explained that these additional refurbishments of the giant vessel would significantly increase its service life. The carrier is currently docked at the Russian Sevmash shipyard.

The Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier was launched in 1982 and entered service with the Russian Navy in 1987. In 2004, Russia agreed to sell the aircraft carrier, which required serious refurbishment and modernisation, to India. However, payment issues and unexpectedly intensive work requirements repeatedly forced Russia to delay the ship's delivery. Should the carrier finally join the Indian Navy in 2012, it will see active service after sixteen years of being moored in Russian ports and shipyards since it was offered for sale in 1996.

The procurement of the Admiral Gorshkov has certainly caused stomach aches to one or the other members of the Indian government, as costs have steadily increased throughout recent years. Originally, India agreed to purchase the ship at a price of $974 million. Subsequently, this amount increased by an additional $1.5 billion. However, the aged Admiral Gorshkov required more than a new layer of paint and a little smooth and polish. The money was quickly spent by the Russian shipyard, which underestimated the required amount of work. Further, according to Antony, the original contract was supplemented by "an exhaustive list of equipment to be fitted on the ship."

In March, on the occasion of an official visit of Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin to India, the two countries announced the signing of an agreement for an additional $2.35 billion in support of the carrier's refurbishment and training of Indian naval crews; these additional funds had already been approved by the Indian government months before the bilateral meeting. This adds up to a proud price tag for a vessel which has been criticised by some defence experts for being too expensive while not providing the state-of-the-art capabilities required by the Indian Navy in the current security-political environment (see also http://goo.gl/vbRwz or http://goo.gl/bQQt5).

As the Minister explained this summer, a team of Indian specialists, comprising officers, sailors and civilian personnel, have been sent to Russia to monitor the progress of the work onboard the ship. In June, the Indian Navy expressed delight at the Sevmash shipyard's progress. "The pace of the work has picked up significantly in the last six months. This can be attributed to the additional deployment of manpower for the refurbishment of the aircraft carrier," Indian Navy spokesperson Commander Satish told an Indian news service.

The Admiral Gorshkov, which has been re-christened the INS Vikramaditya by India, is a modified Kiev-class carrier. It reportedly has a displacement capacity of 45,000 tons, a maximum speed of 32 knots and a range of 13,500 nautical miles (25,000 kilometres) at a cruising speed of 18 knots. The ship will accommodate Russian-built MiG-29K fighter aircraft, which have already been purchased for some $526 million, along with the aircraft carrier in 2004. The aircraft are configured for Short Take Off But Arrested Landing (STOBAR), take-offs being supported by the ship's prominent ski-jump ramp. The first batch of MiG-29Ks was inducted into the Indian Navy earlier this year and will operate from the shore-based facility at INS Hansa in Goa until the aircraft carrier is delivered.

Despite the criticism, INS Vikramaditya will provide the Indian Navy with a significant platform to project military power to every corner of the world's oceans. The country, thereby, enters a currently very exclusive club of operators of aircraft carriers that do not rely on STOVL (Short Take Off, Vertical Landing) aircraft.

This week, the UK's last Harrier STOVL aircraft was launched from HMS Ark Royal and the country will not receive its new aircraft carrier, planned to accommodate F-35C joint strike fighters, in the near future. Furthermore, France repeatedly experiences technical difficulties with its carrier, the Charles de Gaulle. In addition to the operator of the world's largest fleet of aircraft carriers for conventional fighter aircraft, the United States, there only remains Brazil (NAe São Paulo) and Thailand (HTMS Chakri Naruebet).

Daniel Goure of the Lexington Institute recently said about the US carriers: "There is no more strategically agile, operationally responsive and tactically flexible platform [...] than the aircraft carrier" (see http://goo.gl/V7uV9). Although India is far from reaching the United States' level of capabilities provided by its numerous aircraft carriers, the long waiting time for the INS Vikramaditya may eventually pay off from a security-political point of view. However, it remains questionable, if it was worth to spend this much money and if alternatives should have been seriously considered at an earlier point in time.

 

[Crusader53]

I am not disagreeing with you, but how do you know the capabilities of the IAC-1 before it is even completed?

Let's see a Old Missile/Helocopter Cruiser converted to an Aircraft Carrier vs a Brand New State of the Art Carrier. Man where should I start............

 

[Crusader53]

IAC-1 probably more capable coz it can carry more Aircraft and reported to be much better protected than Vikramaditya..

IAC-2 probably a bit longer than IAC-1/VIKARAMADITYA, But this can be done in Indian Docks..

Btw, Making two ships together is a good Idea, But again if MOD is ok with it..

Vikaramaditya :
Length: 273 m (896 ft)
Beam: 32.6 m (107 ft)
Draught: 10 m (33 ft)


IAC-1:
Length: 262 metres (860ft)
Beam: 60 metres (197ft)
Draught: 8.4 metres (28ft)


IAC-2 / Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carrier:
Length: 284 metres
Beam: 73 metres
Draught: 11 metres

The IAC-1 is going to be a impressive ship for her size. She just needs Catapults, Arresting Gear, and a couple Squadrons of F-35C's. Thought, I would even be happy with just the latter.......

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The IAC-1 is going to be a impressive ship for her size. She just needs Catapults, Arresting Gear, and a couple Squadrons of F-35C's. Thought, I would even be happy with just the latter.......

You are talking abt IAC-2

Though No F-35B/C for now..

 

[SATISH]

Well I dont consider the Yak-38 forger as an Helicopter.

 

[Crusader53]

You are talking abt IAC-2

Though No F-35B/C for now..

The F-35B/C could operate from the IAC-1. Just as easily as anything currently flying and are far more capable.

 

[StealthSniper]

The F-35B/C could operate from the IAC-1. Just as easily as anything currently flying and are far more capable.

The F-35 will only be as capable as the US wants it to be not India, remember that. Secondly, it would be rather ridiculous and a huge waste of money if India is operating 3 different types of fighters (Mig-29k, N-LCA, and F-35) and not even in large numbers, so you tell me how India can afford to maintain and buy these $100 million dollar F-35's you want India to have so badly.

Sure the Mig-29k and LCA are inferior to the F-35 but you have to realize that are enemy is not the US (well they might as well be) but China and Pakistan, and for that reason the N-LCA and the Mig-29k just makes sense for India.

The F-35 is good for India if they can buy one and gain valuable information about how it works and maybe we can use that information in our own stealth projects.

 

[Crusader53]

The F-35 will only be as capable as the US wants it to be not India, remember that. Secondly, it would be rather ridiculous and a huge waste of money if India is operating 3 different types of fighters (Mig-29k, N-LCA, and F-35) and not even in large numbers, so you tell me how India can afford to maintain and buy these $100 million dollar F-35's you want India to have so badly.

Sure the Mig-29k and LCA are inferior to the F-35 but you have to realize that are enemy is not the US (well they might as well be) but China and Pakistan, and for that reason the N-LCA and the Mig-29k just makes sense for India.

The F-35 is good for India if they can buy one and gain valuable information about how it works and maybe we can use that information in our own stealth projects.

Considering the Indian Navy would likely be greatly out numbered in any conflict with China/Pakistan. Plus, the fact that the Mig-29K is the ~equal to most Chinese Fighters. (and likely greatly inferior to the J-XX) Doesn't give me a lot of confidence. That India could win the vast majority of engagments.


Sorry, you don't often win by being as good as your opponent! You win by being much much better!

 

[Anshu Attri]

 

[Anshu Attri]

 

[Anshu Attri]

 

[Anshu Attri]

 

[kuku]

nothing visible even on the links.