India's Vietnam

HeinzGud

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Srilanka in the past had done this many times.
In 1971 it sided with pak But the war resulted in the collapse of pak and srilanka was left with no option.
Now its blackmailing by using china card.
As far as ethnicity debate is concerned even srilankans at some point of time came from South indian part so does tamil have right to that land.Just because you are there in large numbers and can oppress them doesn't mean you will massacre them.
In '71 Sri Lanka supported Pak because we were a neutral nation and also it was an issue of that "Samagi Peramuna" government. So why India tried to strangle whole nation for a "treachery" of a one government policy as you see it? Is it ethical? Is it a thing that good neighbor do?

As much as i hated Indian involvement in srilanka i hate the evilvenom that buddhists spreaded against tamils.
[/B]Some mistakes happened and people have learnt from them, and the misconducts that had happened specially in '83 are a wrong doings of the government at that time.. so why still whining about the Buddhists? [/B]

Though i understand that they still dont regret what they did to tamils and even boast of the 1000 women raped publicly in a incident and many massacres they did.
Dude are you live in fairy tale....... ? even I can say Tamils did that and that but in the same time I have to be responsible so post something that is real

But better be become a human as the so called globalize world this time will again side with tamils as the whole UN knows it better about the war crimes and crimes sinhalese did to those tamils.As a matter of fact it because of indian backing that you are not embargoed in trade and other major events that western nation wanted to do specially European union.
yeah we can trust UN! ask that from a Israeli! specially when the UNHRC headed by a Tamilian.

But that doesnot mean we will support the attrocities that happened since 50s against tamils.
Any Person born with Human values will regret what happened and LTTE was parially supported by Tamils as it is their right to support their families from massacred by a filthy breed of evilcrowd that was killing those tamils.

Do you about vellar Tamil discrimination of Sinhalese since the '20s? If you don't Google it!

We do not that Tamil people are responsible for the war! are we gonna hate German people for what the Nazis did? NO!


So your government support to India is more of being opportunistic and this is well known in Indian quarter.

Do you think India isn't an opportunist when it comes to politics? any one is like that!


The entire subcontinent is made up of people with stupid mindsets like sinhalese
Yeah right we know about Hindus too!

I
ndia on its side need to put srilankan government on ground and support the reforms for tamils make them economically power at the same time Religious fanatic in srilanka should be taken care of and Prominent Buddhists Hindu monks should be sent their with jain lifestyle in violent parts things will become good. A big economic boom in srilanka will take care of this stupid issue in future.
Big economic boom is already happening in SL so no need to worry about that!

While inter-ethnic marriages and living should be promoted but mind it not by force but with religious support and back.
Dude get out of the closet!

You forget that India came into Sri Lanka at the behest of your government, which eventually ended up with your president, Premdasa, playing a double game. As much as Tamils and Sinhalese may hate each other, when it came to attacks against the IPKF, both LTTE and Sri Lankan government were hand in hand with the Sri Lankan army supplying weapons to the LTTE to wage war against the IPKF. So tell me, who should be suspicious of who??
Premadasa openly claimed he will make IPKF go home before he become the president! Are RAW or India that stupid? don't blame us for Indian mistakes!

As I said in the other thread, India should stop giving so much business to Sri Lankan yards, such as the recent order of 80 fast interceptor boats, and develop Vietnam's yards. Let the Sri Lankans jump in with the Chinese, while we stick to our true friends who share the same national interests as us, like the Vietnamese!
So when SL choose the true friends for our national interest it's wrong! I don't think India could beat China!

The best we did is get the LTTe wiped out next we need to fix the sinhala goose and it will be done in due time
yeah we saw what happened to mighty India in '62! India can only bully her neighbors!
 

agentperry

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solution of sri lanka's trouble depends upon greater recognition of rights of tamil population within SL. regarding India's interest- china and pakistan are eye sore and its natural that sl wil use this sino-pak nexus to gain more from India and at time irritate India. its natural.
similarly if GoI wish to iritate sl they can use communal card.
 

HeinzGud

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solution of sri lanka's trouble depends upon greater recognition of rights of tamil population within SL. regarding India's interest- china and pakistan are eye sore and its natural that sl wil use this sino-pak nexus to gain more from India and at time irritate India. its natural.
similarly if GoI wish to iritate sl they can use communal card.
I don't think that SL will ever cross the path of India... GoSL is not that dumb enough! however theirs nothing that SL get from irritating India. What SL really need is to India to go neutral in the Tamil issue (controlling the TN) cuz SL government can control the Tamil pro LTTE parties and the Tamil diaspora better if TN is under control.
 

agentperry

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I don't think that SL will ever cross the path of India... GoSL is not that dumb enough! however theirs nothing that SL get from irritating India. What SL really need is to India to go neutral in the Tamil issue (controlling the TN) cuz SL government can control the Tamil pro LTTE parties and the Tamil diaspora better if TN is under control.
well what you are talking about is not only difficult but in the present scenario its impossible. neither there is political will nor public motion to ignore tamil apathy in sl.
if i say that govt of sl ignore mistreatment of sinhali in say India and control the people of sl who are angry over the issue. it wont be possible. tamil are hindus and India, though constitutionally and publically said to be a secular nation- is actually not one be it bjp govt or upa govt or leftist govt
 

HeinzGud

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well what you are talking about is not only difficult but in the present scenario its impossible. neither there is political will nor public motion to ignore tamil apathy in sl.
if i say that govt of sl ignore mistreatment of sinhali in say India and control the people of sl who are angry over the issue. it wont be possible. tamil are hindus and India, though constitutionally and publically said to be a secular nation- is actually not one be it bjp govt or upa govt or leftist govt
The problem is not about the TN entirely but some of their racist leaders like Vaico... who continues the lies against Sinhalese to increase their vote bank and I also think that SL needs more time to answer all the question that had posted against her.

But we also need India's support also to defeat the UN/EU/US conspiracy against SL.
 

agentperry

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The problem is not about the TN entirely but some of their racist leaders like Vaico... who continues the lies against Sinhalese to increase their vote bank and I also think that SL needs more time to answer all the question that had posted against her.

But we also need India's support also to defeat the UN/EU/US conspiracy against SL.
India wont let this conspiracy die. instead you may see India siding up with them in future if sl allows china and pakistan to get into the loop. regarding counter-insurgency, its India's priority
 

Tronic

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Premadasa openly claimed he will make IPKF go home before he become the president! Are RAW or India that stupid? don't blame us for Indian mistakes!
You supplied weapons to people who were killing our soldiers, at a time when we went in to disarm your enemies. Making IPKF go home and supplying weapons to LTTE to kill Indian soldiers are two different things. Outright treachery which is responsible for several Indian lives is a lot different than an anti-IPKF political stance! Yes, India was stupid not to act; if they were smart, they should've bombed every arms depot of the Sri Lankan army.

So when SL choose the true friends for our national interest it's wrong! I don't think India could beat China!
Choose all the "true" friends you want!

Ask the Pakistanis when was the last time China ever stood up for them at the UN? Hell, the Chinese even opposed the Pakistanis getting a clean waiver from the NSG despite India getting the same! The Chinese don't have friends, they only see opportunities and develop tools. Pakistan is but a tool for China. Sri Lanka is welcome to become the same.

As for India fighting China; China never once came to Pakistan's rescue in the last 50 years, even during the '71 war when India was cutting Pakistan in half, the Chinese chose to stay far away from Pakistan and even refused to deploy their army against India despite America begging them to. Pakistan offers much more strategic value to China than Sri Lanka ever can.

You are free to choose your friends; just don't expect the Chinese to come to your rescue (especially not for a mere listening post in the Indian ocean). And oh, those Chinese weapons that were funneled into your country? That was your tax money being spent. :p Unlike India, which gave Sri Lanka free defence equipment, the Chinese don't believe in a free lunch. So enjoy their world class products at cut rate prices.

Oh, and don't mind if India competes a little with your Chinese friends and undo's their work on Sri Lanka's ports by developing its own in India to bypass any Lankan ports. You are free to take one look at Gwadar port of Pakistan, a port which made the Pakistanis jump up and down in support of their "all weather friend". Too bad the port went bust as soon as India started a rival port project in Iran; the Chahbar port.

yeah we saw what happened to mighty India in '62! India can only bully her neighbors!
'62 war was Nehru's India. Know the difference of the Indian army than and post-Nehru.

Secondly, '62 was not an outright Chinese victory. The Chinese just won a good propaganda war. They threw 80,000 soldiers at ~10,000 poorly equipped Indian soldiers; yet the Chinese still ran out of ammunition and supplies and by the time Indian army had mobilized reinforcements, the PLA had already called for a ceasefire.
 

pmaitra

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In '71 Sri Lanka supported Pak because we were a neutral nation and also it was an issue of that "Samagi Peramuna" government. So why India tried to strangle whole nation for a "treachery" of a one government policy as you see it? Is it ethical? Is it a thing that good neighbor do?
I am ambivalent by that portion in red, because, not only is it outrageous, it is also ridiculous.

My extreme anger and the strong desire to laugh after reading your statement has neutralised each other.

yeah we saw what happened to mighty India in '62! India can only bully her neighbors!
India defeated Pakistan many times. If India was indeed a bully, all these tiny countries, like SL, BD, Bhutan, Nepal, would not even exist today.
 
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HeinzGud

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You supplied weapons to people who were killing our soldiers, at a time when we went in to disarm your enemies. Making IPKF go home and supplying weapons to LTTE to kill Indian soldiers are two different things. Outright treachery which is responsible for several Indian lives is a lot different than an anti-IPKF political stance! Yes, India was stupid not to act; if they were smart, they should've bombed every arms depot of the Sri Lankan army.
First of all Premadasa supplied concrete and handful of AK 47s from army depots. For this act Premadasa had to face a loss of confidence motion in parliament in the end it was premadasa that was back stabbed by LTTE. You have to understand that SL didn't have a clear foriegn policy until recently so it's very injustice to call SL back stab India for a one man's desire.

I don't think even LTTE used that ammunition to kill Indian troops... this incidence occurred in 1990. It's also stupid to bomb every arms depot for supplying arms to LTTE this shows how incapable Indian army was and is. It was the RAW that back stabbed India! accept it learn from the past mistakes.


Choose all the "true" friends you want!

Ask the Pakistanis when was the last time China ever stood up for them at the UN?
Well China stood up for SL several times....... cuz SL cause is genuine

You are free to choose your friends; just don't expect the Chinese to come to your rescue (especially not for a mere listening post in the Indian ocean).
SL won't cross India's path unless India attack first!

Oh, and don't mind if India competes a little with your Chinese friends and undo's their work on Sri Lanka's ports by developing its own in India to bypass any Lankan ports. You are free to take one look at Gwadar port of Pakistan, a port which made the Pakistanis jump up and down in support of their "all weather friend". Too bad the port went bust as soon as India started a rival port project in Iran; the Chahbar port.
Ok then build a port that hamper the H'tota port!

'62 war was Nehru's India. Know the difference of the Indian army than and post-Nehru.

Secondly, '62 was not an outright Chinese victory. The Chinese just won a good propaganda war. They threw 80,000 soldiers at ~10,000 poorly equipped Indian soldiers; yet the Chinese still ran out of ammunition and supplies and by the time Indian army had mobilized reinforcements, the PLA had already called for a ceasefire.
If India have changed so does China too. There fore in another war China gonna win again.... so India should work to make china their ally to the enemy it;s the best method to defeat Pakistan!
 

Bhadra

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For India the crux is :
"In the case of Sri Lanka, our economic and political support to them should help in securing a more fair and durable political settlement between the major communities of that island. Problems and grievances of the Tamil community, if not adequately addressed by Colombo, have the potential of spilling over to the southern tip of India, creating a complication in India-Sri Lanka relations."

Heinz or No Heinz. If the SL do not address this problem adequately, the Indian will have to do that.
 

HeinzGud

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For India the crux is :
"In the case of Sri Lanka, our economic and political support to them should help in securing a more fair and durable political settlement between the major communities of that island. Problems and grievances of the Tamil community, if not adequately addressed by Colombo, have the potential of spilling over to the southern tip of India, creating a complication in India-Sri Lanka relations."

Heinz or No Heinz. If the SL do not address this problem adequately, the Indian will have to do that.
What are the criteria for such a move..... India can't just say SL don't address the Tamil issue.... India has to be more clear and do not act like the TN puppet..... This is why it is always better to choose a strategic partner like China!
 

Bhadra

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What are the criteria for such a move..... India can't just say SL don't address the Tamil issue.... India has to be more clear and do not act like the TN puppet..... This is why it is always better to choose a strategic partner like China!
When the Tamils will pick up a gun and start shooting you, you will come to know. So far as China is concerned , her help will be for a price. It is not going to come free like India. So sell yourself... as simple
 

HeinzGud

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When the Tamils will pick up a gun and start shooting you, you will come to know. So far as China is concerned , her help will be for a price. It is not going to come free like India. So sell yourself... as simple
It's good to pay for what we get........ unlike Indian free gifts which comes with secret agendas!
 

tiranga

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It's good to pay for what we get........ unlike Indian free gifts which comes with secret agendas!
yeah yeah, as if China will give everyone golden chains and rings, they will use and throw you like a condom. Anywyas, what can we even get from a wasteland like lanka?? You kidding right??
As far your claim of vietnam is concerned, you yourselves invited us because LTTE was whopping ur ass and ur great SLA didnt had balls to fight their own BATTLES. Isnt it a shame for you??? lolz , and then u uneducated chimps sided LTTE and played a two sided game, dont know what the lankans told you but maybe you are unaware of reality. So, please stop dreaming and come back to earth, you are making fun of yourself here :lol:
 

KS

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What are the criteria for such a move..... India can't just say SL don't address the Tamil issue.... India has to be more clear and do not act like the TN puppet..... This is why it is always better to choose a strategic partner like China!
Its so good whorin yourself to China..isnt it..?

Anyway feel sorry you people..coz you have to whore yourself either to India or China to survive.
 

Tronic

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First of all Premadasa supplied concrete and handful of AK 47s from army depots. For this act Premadasa had to face a loss of confidence motion in parliament in the end it was premadasa that was back stabbed by LTTE. You have to understand that SL didn't have a clear foriegn policy until recently so it's very injustice to call SL back stab India for a one man's desire.

I don't think even LTTE used that ammunition to kill Indian troops... this incidence occurred in 1990. It's also stupid to bomb every arms depot for supplying arms to LTTE this shows how incapable Indian army was and is. It was the RAW that back stabbed India! accept it learn from the past mistakes.
Firstly, it is not stupid to bomb every arms depot which will be potentially used against you.

Secondly, you keep bringing in RAW, but unlike Pakistan, India knows its shortcomings. RAW failed in its intelligence during the IPKF years, that is a well known and well accepted fact; however, that is not the same thing as "back stabbing" India. RAW's failures at the time did not mean that RAW actually helped the LTTE kill Indian soldiers, like the Sri Lankan army did. India has learnt a lot from its past mistakes. Infact, India's entire COIN capabilities and doctrine was transformed and reshaped after the Lankan war. It is you who refuses to admit that Sri Lanka supported the killing of India's soldiers, and put the whole blame on one man, Premdasa. Following that logic, India is also innocent and had nothing to do with training the LTTE because that happened under Indira Gandhi, and was her, one woman's desire!


Well China stood up for SL several times....... cuz SL cause is genuine
The Sri Lankan civil war topic was not even on the agenda in the UN and I believe was brought to the table by Mexico after which the EU and other parties jumped on boat. The topic was not even put on the agenda for discussion and was raised under "Other happenings" by those nations. China was not standing alone as Russia and India also did not want to discuss the topic and hence the topic was quickly buried and was not raised as a major issue. But ofcourse, it was Sri Lanka's all weather friend China which stopped such a motion single handedly! Bravado!


SL won't cross India's path unless India attack first!
Allowing China to step into Sri Lankan ports already means you are crossing India's path, like it or not.

And "India attacks first"? Get your head right. Sri Lankan armed forces won't last a day in a conventional fight against the IA. Sri Lankan forces are not designed to, nor trained to, nor do they have the weapons to fight a conventional war. And apart from some fanboys, nor do they ever intend to fight such a war.


Ok then build a port that hamper the H'tota port!
We would but the Hindu zealots are not letting the Indian government open up the Ram Sethu channel. Ah, the drawbacks of democracy!

But I guess China is doing good work in Hamantota. Investing over a billion dollars into this project, and providing so many Sri Lankans with jobs to build this port:



Ironic, ain't it? :lol:

So let's see, the Chinese use their own workers to build ports in Sri Lanka, invest the money to get greater returns, and to top it all off, they keep expanding the trade deficit between Sri Lanka and China. China benefits and makes more money out of every deal yet, here is your all weather friend! Amazing mentality really. Keep this up, and become another Pakistan in the making.

Oh and ofcourse, in typical Chinese fashion: BBC News - Sri Lanka's Hambantota port 'not deep enough'


If India have changed so does China too. There fore in another war China gonna win again.... so India should work to make china their ally to the enemy it;s the best method to defeat Pakistan!

Win what?

Before being all mesmerized by your all weather friend, do a reality check of the ORBATs of both the armies on the two sides of the border, the terrain, and the capabilities of the armed forces. PLAN does not have the capability to operate against the Indian navy in the Indian ocean, nor does PLA have the capability to face off the IA and come over the Himalayas. PLAAF has a totally different role (of air denial) and cannot hope to win air superiority over the IAF birds.
 
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Tronic

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What are the criteria for such a move..... India can't just say SL don't address the Tamil issue.... India has to be more clear and do not act like the TN puppet..... This is why it is always better to choose a strategic partner like China!
Basically treat the Tamils as equals from now on. The Tamil issue is dead, providing the Sri Lankan government rebuilds and restructures the system evenly and fairly.

Secondly, majority of Indians don't venture into these threads concerning Sri Lanka so you usually tend to run into people who are closer to these issues, and that happen to be Indian Tamils. Don't mistake that for all of India's sentiments because the sentiment isn't necessarily the same for the entire country. However, your China drumming won't win you any love on this side of the border.
 

HeinzGud

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@Tronic

It is you who refuses to admit that Sri Lanka supported the killing of India's soldiers, and put the whole blame on one man, Premdasa. Following that logic, India is also innocent and had nothing to do with training the LTTE because that happened under Indira Gandhi, and was her, one woman's desire!
you don't get what I said.......... supplying of arms to LTTE and India training LTTE two different issues... Premadasa acted on his own will whixh later got criticized by both his party members and opposition, even he had to face loss of confidence motion on this issue.. I don't think Indian PM can act on their own will for such an international matters.... specially when RAW is involved!

Sri Lankan armed forces won't last a day in a conventional fight against the IA
well Cuba has lived like that under sever constrains....... and Taiwan did... so why can't we! Indian can't just impose sanction just because her neighbor is being developed!

China is doing good work in Hamantota.
We don't care how it get build we just need the harbor and when we get the money, we pay the debt.. end of the story!
Also H'tota harbour is not designed to attract ships going to bay of Bengal... It's main aim is the east-west shipping lane that goes very close to H'tota.

China going to win. Win what?
Let's end this China-India part from here.. oK!
 
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HeinzGud

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Basically treat the Tamils as equals from now on. The Tamil issue is dead, providing the Sri Lankan government rebuilds and restructures the system evenly and fairly.
Tamils are being treated equally for the past.. let's say 60 years from the Independence.. despite certain cases where both parties clashed for minor issues. What would you say if some one said "Hindu's don't treat Muslims equally in India" based on the 1993 riots! so pls verify these claims before saying any more...

Secondly, majority of Indians don't venture into these threads concerning Sri Lanka so you usually tend to run into people who are closer to these issues, and that happen to be Indian Tamils. Don't mistake that for all of India's sentiments because the sentiment isn't necessarily the same for the entire country. However, your China drumming won't win you any love on this side of the border.
I respect the majority Indian view and I also respect the TN view... but I can't stand the GoI's view on SL.. it's just the same view as TN and It was the Indian government that pushed SL to seek assistance from China so if India wanna win any love in SL they should act more genuinely on these matters .
 

Tronic

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you don't get what I said.......... supplying of arms to LTTE and India training LTTE two different issues... Premadasa acted on his own will whixh later got criticized by both his party members and opposition, even he had to face loss of confidence motion on this issue.. I don't think Indian PM can act on their own will for such an international matters.... specially when RAW is involved!
Than you don't know much. Indian PMs don't involve the Parliament on international issues; more so when it is RAW at work. Asking the parliament for RAW to act is the most ridiculous thing I've heard! It wouldn't be much of a secret agency if that was the case, now would it?


well Cuba has lived like that under sever constrains....... and Taiwan did... so why can't we! Indian can't just impose sanction just because her neighbor is being developed!
Cuba and Taiwan are two vastly different examples.

Cuba never claimed to be able to take on the United States Army as you are claiming for the Sri Lankan army vis-a-vis India. The Bay of Pigs invasion was a CIA ploy using ex-Cuban nationals, training and arming them. Cuba took them out easily as there was little public support. On the other hand, RAW trained LTTE lasted several decades and instigated the largest civil war on the island ever. The only reason Sri Lanka was able to defeat the LTTE is because of India's candid support; without such, LTTE would still very much be a living threat in Sri Lanka.

Taiwan has had the US vowing to protect it during a Chinese invasion.

Sri Lanka's case is neither of the two.


We don't care how it get build we just need the harbor and when we get the money, we pay the debt.. end of the story!
Who says you will be getting all the money? China didn't gift this port to you; half of that money will go to China, not Sri Lanka.

I surely hope that you also return India's money which it has bloody given away for free to develop the Kankesanthurai port and the millions they are giving away to develop industries and infrastructure in Northern Sri Lanka. Maybe we should "invest" this money too. Ridiculous!


Also H'tota harbour is not designed to attract ships going to bay of Bengal... It's main aim is the east-west shipping lane that goes very close to H'tota.
The Ram-setu project is aimed at east-west shipping lanes, not Bay of Bengal. If India goes ahead with that project (which will cut the distance and cost of east-west shipping), Hamantota goes bust. Try to realize that small fact.

Tamils are being treated equally for the past.. let's say 60 years from the Independence.. despite certain cases where both parties clashed for minor issues. What would you say if some one said "Hindu's don't treat Muslims equally in India" based on the 1993 riots! so pls verify these claims before saying any more...

60 years? Lets see, the Sinhalese put in place the "Sinhala Official Language Act" which failed to give official language recognition to the Tamils which resulted them in being singled out and kicked out of government jobs, your government banned all imported media or literature of the Tamil language, your government took the discrimination to universities where the qualifying marks required for Tamil students were significantly higher than what was required for Sinhalese students, a "district quota" system was introduced in place of nation wide merit simply to discriminate the Tamils from being able to receive higher education; and if all that wasn't enough, the Sinhalese government stripped away the citizenship of millions of Tamils so that they couldn't vote and the Sinhalese could get 2/3 majority in Parliament (not until 2003 those Tamil's citizenship was restored).

And you dare to compare such discrimination with Muslims in India? A country which has seen 4 Muslim Presidents, 3 Muslim vice-Presidents, including the present one, Mohammad Hamid Ansari, where the prime lingua of Indian Muslims, Urdu, has been accorded official language status since Independence, and even their religious Sharia law given place in family-law courts! How dare you compare Sinhalese discrimination of Tamils with the Muslims of India!?

I respect the majority Indian view and I also respect the TN view... but I can't stand the GoI's view on SL.. it's just the same view as TN and It was the Indian government that pushed SL to seek assistance from China so if India wanna win any love in SL they should act more genuinely on these matters .
I believe allowing Sri Lanka to finish off the LTTE, so far as to even secretly providing defence equipment for free, giving millions in development aid money, instead of "investing" that money expecting returns, is genuine enough! And trust me, if it was the TN government sitting in Delhi, the LTTE would still be bombing your country to bits.

And interestingly, I would like to ask you, so what exactly do you want the Indian government to do, concerning Sri Lanka? This is what boggles my mind. This government has probably been one of the most pro-SL government which has come to power in Sri Lanka and if you're still complaining than I really want to know what exactly you want.
 

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