Japan-India-Vietnam trilateral could be created for Indo-Pacific stability

Tshering22

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Japan-India-Vietnam trilateral could be created for Indo-Pacific stability

Vietnam’s PM Pham Minh Chin’s recent visit to Japan to strengthen strategic partnership aimed at creating peace and stability in the Indo-Pacific region amid China’s hegemonistic designs has opened up the creation of a prospective trilateral – Japan-India-Vietnam which can be termed as JIV.

While there has been no formal move to create this trilateral in the Indo-Pacific region, there is enough potential for such a grouping amid expanding strategic ties between India and Japan, India and Vietnam and Vietnam and Japan. This would be appropriate as India and Vietnam celebrate 50 years of creation of diplomatic ties in 2022. Ahead of this, the Chairman of National Assembly of Vietnam plan to visit India in December.

The celebration of 50 years of creation of diplomatic ties and fifth anniversary of the Indo-Vietnam Comprehensive Strategic Partnership in 2021 are testimony to the growing partnership between New Delhi and Hanoi. At the virtual summit held last December PM Narendra Modi had said that Vietnam is an important pillar of India's Act East policy and a vital partner of its Indo-Pacific Vision. On that occasion the two sides signed seven pacts across key sectors including defence and energy and released a joint vision for peace and prosperity eyeing to contribute to the South China Sea region’s stability.

India as an emerging global power should play an important role in maintaining Freedom of Navigation and Freedom of Overflight in the South China Sea (SCS) region amid China’s territorial claims. The prospective JIV could contribute to maintaining peace in the SCS region. India and Japan are not new to trilaterals being part of India-Japan-USA; India-Japan-Australia; and emerging India-Japan-Russia.

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I don't know where this goes but do you think Japan will agree for a military partnership without USA?
 

no smoking

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Covfefe

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This is just talky talky.
Agreed, mostly because Economy comes first for all three.
None of the other two can provide strong military aid in time when there is a military conflict between Japan and China.
Japan doesn't need military aid. It's "self defence forces" is armed to teeth and they are adding more to it, China is not stupid to bully them militarily. They are no Phillipines or Malaysia
 

asianobserve

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How reliable is India when push comes to shove example in terms of the need for economic sanctions or trade stoppage against China say if China invades a Vietnamese artificial island in the SCS?

And will India send naval forces to enforce FONOPS in case China blockades or declares a no-go zone any of Vietnamese claimed areas in the SCS?
 
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Covfefe

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How reliable is India when push comes to shove example in terms of the need for economic sanctions or trade stoppage against China say if China invades a Vietnamese artificial island in the SCS?

And will India send naval forces to enforce FONOPS in case China blockades or declares a no-go zone any of Vietnamese claimed areas in the SCS?
There is no military agreement in place, and neither India nor Vietnam want that. Vietnam has good business relations with China and they'll mostly play along to get a better deal for their own country. This news article might refer to some sort of military cooperation which most certainly doesn't mean alliance. If India isn't a part of military alliance with the US due to sovereignty issues, why would they enter one with Vietnam? Vietnam has their border and sea claim issues with Chongs, but they are not looking for an active war there.

And when the push comes to shove, India has sent it's military with the nation it had such agreement in place- read Doklam Standoff of 2017.
 

asianobserve

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There is no military agreement in place, and neither India nor Vietnam want that. Vietnam has good business relations with China and they'll mostly play along to get a better deal for their own country. This news article might refer to some sort of military cooperation which most certainly doesn't mean alliance. If India isn't a part of military alliance with the US due to sovereignty issues, why would they enter one with Vietnam? Vietnam has their border and sea claim issues with Chongs, but they are not looking for an active war there.

And when the push comes to shove, India has sent it's military with the nation it had such agreement in place- read Doklam Standoff of 2017.

Vietnam will not bow to China. History shows that. So any alliance with Vietnam must consider that Vietnam fights and as such any major power wishing an alliance with it can back up its promises.
 

Covfefe

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Vietnam will not bow to China. History shows that. So any alliance with Vietnam must consider that Vietnam fights and as such any major power wishing an alliance with it can back up its promises.
Nobody said Vietnam will bow down. But that also doesn't mean that they will go full trigger happy at the first sign of strains in their relations with China due to sea claims. Their political leadership has played very smart until now and made an economic miracle in a war torn communist nation. They import stuff from China, add value and sell it to the West. And it has worked pretty well for them. There's no reason why they'll change all that. Tensions with China is nothing new for them, it has stayed there for decades
 

asianobserve

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Nobody said Vietnam will bow down. But that also doesn't mean that they will go full trigger happy at the first sign of strains in their relations with China due to sea claims. Their political leadership has played very smart until now and made an economic miracle in a war torn communist nation. They import stuff from China, add value and sell it to the West. And it has worked pretty well for them. There's no reason why they'll change all that. Tensions with China is nothing new for them, it has stayed there for decades

And the Vietnamese burn down Chinese factories in Vietnam...
 

Maharaj skandgupta

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Nobody said Vietnam will bow down. But that also doesn't mean that they will go full trigger happy at the first sign of strains in their relations with China due to sea claims. Their political leadership has played very smart until now and made an economic miracle in a war torn communist nation. They import stuff from China, add value and sell it to the West. And it has worked pretty well for them. There's no reason why they'll change all that. Tensions with China is nothing new for them, it has stayed there for decades
Centuries
 

Covfefe

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And the Vietnamese burn down Chinese factories in Vietnam...
Exceptions being the norm- such a weak line of argument. They burned Chinese factories in Myanmar too, and in Africa too. How many countries you think ended their relationship with China? Or went ballistic against it? Look at Vietnam- China trade
 

Tshering22

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This is just talky talky.

Japan won't agree for any meaningful military partnership without the participation of USA. None of the other two can provide strong military aid in time when there is a military conflict between Japan and China.
Japan does not need 'aid'. It needs countries that are willing to fight. And barring the USA, India, and Vietnam are the only two countries that have stood up to China, while others historically did nothing. Looking at Biden-Harris' commitment towards combat against the CCP, Japan needs contingencies other than the US as well.

Depending entirely on one country in a world of rapidly changing priorities is very short-sighted geopolitics. There is a reason why Japan has been allowed to flex more military muscle by the Pentagon; it is to offload some of its defense responsibilities away from the American shoulders.

Remind me again; which other military force in the entire Asia Pacific region has the combat history or capability to deal with the Chinese?
 

VivaVietnamm

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There is no military agreement in place, and neither India nor Vietnam want that. Vietnam has good business relations with China and they'll mostly play along to get a better deal for their own country. This news article might refer to some sort of military cooperation which most certainly doesn't mean alliance. If India isn't a part of military alliance with the US due to sovereignty issues, why would they enter one with Vietnam? Vietnam has their border and sea claim issues with Chongs, but they are not looking for an active war there.

And when the push comes to shove, India has sent it's military with the nation it had such agreement in place- read Doklam Standoff of 2017.
We are strong enough to fight against CN alone, we just need support from India bro. As long as India don't slap sanction on VN like US-JP did to VN during VN-CN conflict since 1979, then its enough for us to fight against any enemies, including mighty US.

Cuộc chiến biên giới 1979: Xếp lại bất đồng
PLA men were captured in 1979 even when they were amred to the teeth .
 

Covfefe

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We are strong enough to fight against CN alone, we just need support from India bro. As long as India don't slap sanction on VN like US-JP did to VN during VN-CN conflict since 1979, then its enough for us to fight against any enemies, including mighty US.

Cuộc chiến biên giới 1979: Xếp lại bất đồng
PLA men were captured in 1979 even when they were amred to the teeth .
I know that man. Apologies if it came across as offensive. I just meant that VN isn't looking at a conflict actively and rightfully so. Every country looks out for its own benefit and so does Vietnam. It won't actively pursue an anti-China stance given the economic and regional security implications for it (China is a big country lying next to you, if you raise temperature you have to up your security preparedness as well; and defence costs a lot of money. America will happily sell you weapons but guess what they're not cheap). However, when push comes to shove we are pretty sure that VN won't take sh*t from China or anyone from that matter. And there's no chance that India ever sanctions Vietnam for anything they do to the Chinese. I just pray that India can develop its own capabilities to the extent that peace can be maintained in Asia without any intervention or power politics from outside.
 

no smoking

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Japan does not need 'aid'. It needs countries that are willing to fight. And barring the USA, India, and Vietnam are the only two countries that have stood up to China, while others historically did nothing. Looking at Biden-Harris' commitment towards combat against the CCP, Japan needs contingencies other than the US as well.
Contingencies? What contingencies?
Today there are over 60,000 US soldiers staying in Japan and preparing to honor their treaty at any time. Where and how many Indian or Vietnamese soliders?


Depending entirely on one country in a world of rapidly changing priorities is very short-sighted geopolitics. There is a reason why Japan has been allowed to flex more military muscle by the Pentagon; it is to offload some of its defense responsibilities away from the American shoulders.
If Japan can't trust US' ability to protect them, what makes them believe that India and Vietnam, which 2 combine are far weaker than US, can do a better job?


Remind me again; which other military force in the entire Asia Pacific region has the combat history or capability to deal with the Chinese?
What did Japanese learn from the history?
She has no capability to deal with Chinese: Even In the peak of her military power (WW2), she still can't deal with a group of Chinese peasants armed with strifle only.
That is also why they are hugging Americans so tightly because they know they are outmatched by a rising China.
 

VivaVietnamm

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I know that man. Apologies if it came across as offensive. I just meant that VN isn't looking at a conflict actively and rightfully so. Every country looks out for its own benefit and so does Vietnam. It won't actively pursue an anti-China stance given the economic and regional security implications for it (China is a big country lying next to you, if you raise temperature you have to up your security preparedness as well; and defence costs a lot of money. America will happily sell you weapons but guess what they're not cheap). However, when push comes to shove we are pretty sure that VN won't take sh*t from China or anyone from that matter. And there's no chance that India ever sanctions Vietnam for anything they do to the Chinese. I just pray that India can develop its own capabilities to the extent that peace can be maintained in Asia without any intervention or power politics from outside.
Actually, Vietnamese always try to avoid all wars when possible and only have to fight when the enemy tries to invade us (French colonialists wanted to colonize Vietnam, the US wanted to divide Vietnam into two as the Korean peninsula, Pol Pot in Cambosia was fully supported by China-US-Japan to attacked and massacred thousands of Vietnamese and then it was China who attacked Vietnam to save Pol Pot in 1979 ).

When the wars happen between India-CN or VN-CN , then the only winner is US, as u said America will happily sell weapons but guess what they're not cheap, thats why we should try to avoid wars except CN starts the war first and when wars happen, India and VN should fully support each others. Slaping sancton on VN to exchange for economy benefit like US and JP did in 1979 will only help CN become stronger and and eventually they (CN) will be strong enough to attack anyone without support from other nations.
 

Tshering22

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Contingencies? What contingencies?

Today there are over 60,000 US soldiers staying in Japan and preparing to honor their treaty at any time. Where and how many Indian or Vietnamese soliders?
US is present in Japan which is all well and good. But unless US assets are targeted, American troops will not get involved. You and I both know that the Chinese are smart and have more than one ways to target Japan. They eventually will. See, when Japan-US signed the treaty, Russia had no interest in taking over Japan and China was a nobody under Mao; poorer than even India.

Today's China is completely different.

If Japan can't trust US' ability to protect them, what makes them believe that India and Vietnam, which 2 combine are far weaker than US, can do a better job?
Did I say ability?

I was talking about willingness.

The two are completely different. US willing to fight someone who targets their direct safety is a different thing. Especially when the country can hit back the US mainland. Do you really think the current America will be fighting China when the Chinese don't even touch the US troops?

Not when US mainland is vulnerable, and the aggressor to a third country is someone who holds your maximum debts.

What did Japanese learn from the history?
She has no capability to deal with Chinese: Even In the peak of her military power (WW2), she still can't deal with a group of Chinese peasants armed with rifle only. That is also why they are hugging Americans so tightly because they know they are outmatched by a rising China.
Exactly my point; it is like investing in a diverse portfolio. Keeping more countries pointed against China. Simple. CCP does not want to conquer Japan, just make it into its slave. That's what it will do with a more reluctant US.

100K troops means nothing if the executive orders are to stand down.
 

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This is just talky talky.

Japan won't agree for any meaningful military partnership without the participation of USA. None of the other two can provide strong military aid in time when there is a military conflict between Japan and China.
you don't know about the JSDF ?
 

Angel of War

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Actually, Vietnamese always try to avoid all wars when possible and only have to fight when the enemy tries to invade us (French colonialists wanted to colonize Vietnam, the US wanted to divide Vietnam into two as the Korean peninsula, Pol Pot in Cambosia was fully supported by China-US-Japan to attacked and massacred thousands of Vietnamese and then it was China who attacked Vietnam to save Pol Pot in 1979 ).

When the wars happen between India-CN or VN-CN , then the only winner is US, as u said America will happily sell weapons but guess what they're not cheap, thats why we should try to avoid wars except CN starts the war first and when wars happen, India and VN should fully support each others. Slaping sancton on VN to exchange for economy benefit like US and JP did in 1979 will only help CN become stronger and and eventually they (CN) will be strong enough to attack anyone without support from other nations.
True , both India and Vietnam don't like china and neither do they trust the west. It's the perfect condition required for building an official Indo-vietnamese alliance
 

Angel of War

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How reliable is India when push comes to shove example in terms of the need for economic sanctions or trade stoppage against China say if China invades a Vietnamese artificial island in the SCS?

And will India send naval forces to enforce FONOPS in case China blockades or declares a no-go zone any of Vietnamese claimed areas in the SCS?
Not sure about the SCS thing because India is not a stakeholder in it but when china decides to push India on the land we will strike back at them with equal force just like doklam and Ladakh
 

VivaVietnamm

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True , both India and Vietnam don't like china and neither do they trust the west. It's the perfect condition required for building an official Indo-vietnamese alliance
Without bowing down and got help from JP-US like in 1979, there is No chance for CN to defeat VN in any wars.

Thats why CN was annexed, raped and massarced in 100 years by Mongol and by Manchus in 300 years while VN simply defeated Mongol empire 3 times and defeat Manchus in just few days .:tongue:
 

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