Indian Special Forces

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

10 PARA SF with RR qrt

 

[Covfefe]

We never used tanks, gunships, drones, fighter planes in Kashmir, only platoon level weapons on top of that.

That's one stupid strategy we need to drop

 

[Fire and groove]

Exactly.

And it is very annoying when some forum members glorify Western SF and downplay Indian SF. Those men in maroon berets literally changed the whole situation by hunting those terrorists, doing covert operations even beyond the LOC.

Some forum members are so fickle-minded that they want validation from western sf operatives that whether PARA SF has the same level as theirs or not. And if those foreign operatives say that western sf is better, our forum members become the echo chambers of their thoughts. But, they can't even grasp simple wiki stats which show the effectiveness of tactics and training of Indian security forces.
PARA SF and RR don't need your or mine validation. Their work speaks for them.

We never faced technicals with HMGs, routine IED ambushes along avenues of approach, massed coordinated assaults by company sized elements with heavy firepower and sophisticated support structures to the likes of Afghanistan or even an operationally and strategically competant insurgency either. I don't care about validation unlike the strawman you guys build. The US military has been the leading developer of special operations capabilities for decades now and has easily been the foremost authorities owing to it's massive wealth of operational experience and propensity for research that eclipses even the SAS today, our military is only figuring out the tipnof the iceberg now. That isn't me fan-girling, thats me acknowledging a well-founded observation. Our SOF meanwhile haven't even been given the opportunity to develop their capabilities, and their training is in fact not up to standard for the very reason that they're not even organized and equipped to perform their special operations role to the required degree. Basic training isn't where you become an operator, any former operator will tell you that they're developed over a lifetime of training in various skills under established training cycles and deputations with constant monitering of comprehensive standards. Our guys don't even have secure comms yet, let alone developed radio ettiquete and communication SOPs, something one would consider absolutely essential for efficient coordination. There's no dedicated specialisation schools and some are entirely missing, there are no JTACs in the indian military, only TACPs in the airforce. Sniping is something that the SF only had crash course in with outdated equipment while other countries have dedicated schools etc. Quality of training is substandard, since there is little centralisation of standards and no research on combat requirements because top brass simply doesn't believe it necessary, any battalion can make up it's own course and follow through without any pressure testing. Case in point, double tap/control pairs is still being taught in the SF training courses despite it being flagged as a bad habit by any SOF that has serious experience in CQB. Our "joint training" with the US SOF arena currently boil down to the ODA teams that don't even specialize in direct action and where discourse on TTPs is non-existent.

 

[SGOperative]

routine IED ambushes along avenues of approach, massed coordinated assaults by company sized elements with heavy firepower and sophisticated support structures

You are wrong here

Our guys don't even have secure comms yet

Here too, SF is given secure comms since the days of IPKF and that has tickeled down to the Infantry at LOC + RR too

JTACs in the indian military

JTAC is a certification mate while TACP controls the air assets and TACP consists of JTACs

ODA teams that don't even specialize in direct action

And its neither our primary area of interests

 

[India Super Power]

We don't need any foreign validation
We have done next level ops which many nations with wonderful equipments haven't even thought
Innumerable cross border raids covert ops hvt hunting in Kashmir and even in conventional wars
Here I don't mean we don't need modern equipments, we want those modern equipments which are really required in our specific ops
Our ops are different from ops done by western or african or russian ops
Our requirements are different and we are doing well and will do better in future with good equipments

 

[senapati3]

Yea I remember someone called elitepredators shaming them...... Imagine getting wounded by gunfire but you still manage to kill a jehadi pig only for some armchair exfart called elitepredators to shame you........View attachment 148212

Though we may disagree on our idealogy , but I rate most of the guys here much more aware with proper facts and figures when it comes to armed forces , people here atleast don't create imaginary conspiracy stories regarding our SF's.

Guys try to join the twitter spaces that elite predators and some OSINT accounts hold , you will shocked with the contents they discuss there , and so many civilians believe that considering there is no one to question them.

 

[Emperor Kalki]

Mods, can we rename this thread to "The Jokes Thread" now.

Or maybe "The Joke Thread" would be more apt.

 

[SGOperative]

Mods, can we rename this thread to "The Jokes Thread" now.

Or maybe "The Joke Thread" would be more apt.

I Support you as much as the Pakistanis Diaspora Support Imran Khan

 

[vidhwanshak]

We never faced technicals with HMGs, routine IED ambushes along avenues of approach, massed coordinated assaults by company sized elements with heavy firepower and sophisticated support structures to the likes of Afghanistan or even an operationally and strategically competant insurgency either.

Completely wrong. Watch Major Avinash interview where he talks about IED ambushes and Remote controlled bombs. This type of IED attack, solar rockets attack was very common in 1990s and early 2000s in Kashmir and is predominantly used by insurgents in NE. Whatever I said is accepted by Major Avinash in his interviews.
Pulwama like attacks was very frequent during those times in Kashmir.

operationally and strategically competant insurgency either
Are you in right mind mate? You are calling Kashmir insurgency"stragecially incompetant"
Do you even know how many terrorists and militants were active in Kashmir?
You should go and watch past LOC threads and you will get a good idea.

massed coordinated assaults by company sized elements with heavy firepower
wrong, wrong completely wrong. Militants used to attack army and RR camps in size of 30-40. They used to have heavy weapons as well. Pasting a link here so that you can have some idea.

Major incidents of terrorist violence in Jammu and Kashmir

You remeber Gurmehar Kaur?
Her father was killed when 20 armed terrorist of Afghan origin attacked his unit.

I just don't get it why the hell would anypne of you downplay the Kashmir insurgency?

 

[vidhwanshak]

We never faced technicals with HMGs, routine IED ambushes along avenues of approach, massed coordinated assaults by company sized elements with heavy firepower and sophisticated support structures to the likes of Afghanistan or even an operationally and strategically competant insurgency either. I don't care about validation unlike the strawman you guys build. The US military has been the leading developer of special operations capabilities for decades now and has easily been the foremost authorities owing to it's massive wealth of operational experience and propensity for research that eclipses even the SAS today, our military is only figuring out the tipnof the iceberg now. That isn't me fan-girling, thats me acknowledging a well-founded observation. Our SOF meanwhile haven't even been given the opportunity to develop their capabilities, and their training is in fact not up to standard for the very reason that they're not even organized and equipped to perform their special operations role to the required degree. Basic training isn't where you become an operator, any former operator will tell you that they're developed over a lifetime of training in various skills under established training cycles and deputations with constant monitering of comprehensive standards. Our guys don't even have secure comms yet, let alone developed radio ettiquete and communication SOPs, something one would consider absolutely essential for efficient coordination. There's no dedicated specialisation schools and some are entirely missing, there are no JTACs in the indian military, only TACPs in the airforce. Sniping is something that the SF only had crash course in with outdated equipment while other countries have dedicated schools etc. Quality of training is substandard, since there is little centralisation of standards and no research on combat requirements because top brass simply doesn't believe it necessary, any battalion can make up it's own course and follow through without any pressure testing. Case in point, double tap/control pairs is still being taught in the SF training courses despite it being flagged as a bad habit by any SOF that has serious experience in CQB. Our "joint training" with the US SOF arena currently boil down to the ODA teams that don't even specialize in direct action and where discourse on TTPs is non-existent.

 

[Mikel]

Completely wrong. Watch Major Avinash interview where he talks about IED ambushes and Remote controlled bombs. This type of IED attack, solar rockets attack was very common in 1990s and early 2000s in Kashmir and is predominantly used by insurgents in NE. Whatever I said is accepted by Major Avinash in his interviews.
Pulwama like attacks was very frequent during those times in Kashmir.

operationally and strategically competant insurgency either
Are you in right mind mate? You are calling Kashmir insurgency"stragecially incompetant"
Do you even know how many terrorists and militants were active in Kashmir?
You should go and watch past LOC threads and you will get a good idea.

massed coordinated assaults by company sized elements with heavy firepower
wrong, wrong completely wrong. Militants used to attack army and RR camps in size of 30-40. They used to have heavy weapons as well. Pasting a link here so that you can have some idea.

Major incidents of terrorist violence in Jammu and Kashmir

You remeber Gurmehar Kaur?
Her father was killed when 20 armed terrorist of Afghan origin attacked his unit.

I just don't get it why the hell would anypne of you downplay the Kashmir insurgency?

Yeah things were ridiculous in the 90s, all the way up to early 2000s before LOC was fenced up.

 

[India Super Power]

Completely wrong. Watch Major Avinash interview where he talks about IED ambushes and Remote controlled bombs. This type of IED attack, solar rockets attack was very common in 1990s and early 2000s in Kashmir and is predominantly used by insurgents in NE. Whatever I said is accepted by Major Avinash in his interviews.
Pulwama like attacks was very frequent during those times in Kashmir.

operationally and strategically competant insurgency either
Are you in right mind mate? You are calling Kashmir insurgency"stragecially incompetant"
Do you even know how many terrorists and militants were active in Kashmir?
You should go and watch past LOC threads and you will get a good idea.

massed coordinated assaults by company sized elements with heavy firepower
wrong, wrong completely wrong. Militants used to attack army and RR camps in size of 30-40. They used to have heavy weapons as well. Pasting a link here so that you can have some idea.

Major incidents of terrorist violence in Jammu and Kashmir

You remeber Gurmehar Kaur?
Her father was killed when 20 armed terrorist of Afghan origin attacked his unit.

I just don't get it why the hell would anypne of you downplay the Kashmir insurgency?

He is just shit posting without any knowledge of our ops and criticality in achieving it

 

[vidhwanshak]

Yeah things were ridiculous in the 90s, all the way up to early 2000s before LOC was fenced up.

even our nuclear research facilities were attacked

 

[vidhwanshak]

He is just shit posting without any knowledge of our ops and criticality in achieving it

No, what he said about equipment is very true.
Gears nahi hai unki tarah lekin SF ka jo bhi mandate hai abhi army me vo use acche se kar rahe hai.

Abhi gear hai nahi to unn gears ke saath training kaisi?

This esteemed member is comparing everything with western SOF without realizing the operational mandate of the Army. We are purely defensive force.
Rahi baat JTACS ki to we are raising them as well

Hard Men in a Hard Environment: Indian Special Operators Along the Border with China

Editor’s Note: This is adapted from the author’s article in the latest issue of the Naval War College Review. Ever since 1962, when soldiers from the

warontherocks.com

 

[vidhwanshak]

No, what he said about equipment is very true.
Gears nahi hai unki tarah lekin SF ka jo bhi mandate hai abhi army me vo use acche se kar rahe hai.

Abhi gear hai nahi to unn gears ke saath training kaisi?

This esteemed member is comparing everything with western SOF without realizing the operational mandate of the Army. We are purely defensive force.
Rahi baat JTACS ki to we are raising them as well
View attachment 148318

Hard Men in a Hard Environment: Indian Special Operators Along the Border with China

Editor’s Note: This is adapted from the author’s article in the latest issue of the Naval War College Review. Ever since 1962, when soldiers from the

warontherocks.com

@SGOperative @Fire and groove

 

[India Super Power]

No, what he said about equipment is very true.
Gears nahi hai unki tarah lekin SF ka jo bhi mandate hai abhi army me vo use acche se kar rahe hai.

Abhi gear hai nahi to unn gears ke saath training kaisi?

This esteemed member is comparing everything with western SOF without realizing the operational mandate of the Army. We are purely defensive force.
Rahi baat JTACS ki to we are raising them as well
View attachment 148318

Hard Men in a Hard Environment: Indian Special Operators Along the Border with China

Editor’s Note: This is adapted from the author’s article in the latest issue of the Naval War College Review. Ever since 1962, when soldiers from the

warontherocks.com

If u read me previous posts then I have always said we are under equiped and we need a vast improvement there but our ops are not inferior to any bloody nation
We need efficient and good quality equipment wrt our ops

 

[Fire and groove]

No, what he said about equipment is very true.
Gears nahi hai unki tarah lekin SF ka jo bhi mandate hai abhi army me vo use acche se kar rahe hai.

Abhi gear hai nahi to unn gears ke saath training kaisi?

This esteemed member is comparing everything with western SOF without realizing the operational mandate of the Army. We are purely defensive force.
Rahi baat JTACS ki to we are raising them as well
View attachment 148318

Hard Men in a Hard Environment: Indian Special Operators Along the Border with China

Editor’s Note: This is adapted from the author’s article in the latest issue of the Naval War College Review. Ever since 1962, when soldiers from the

warontherocks.com

There isn't an official operational mandate (rather doctrine) of the Indian army, closest we come to is the under-developed cold start and by extension the land warfare doctrine thanks to the lack of an NSS. It's also general consensus that a war with Pakistan will see us launching rapid but limited offensives as a form of defense to outmaneuver Pakistan forces.

 

[Fire and groove]

View attachment 148316

Out of these, very few are actual tactical applications of IEDs against the military, more than half are just terrorism. And this still in no way compares to the Taliban's high intensity penchant for avoiding engagements and relying on IEDs, including but not limited to VBIEDs, HBIEDs, S-Vests, IED ambushes along identified MSRs, IEDs in tunnels etc. Several of these events are just abductions. The 90s were crazy, but in no way was the Kashmir conflict comparable to the big plays in Afghanistan, still aren't.

 

[Fire and groove]

You are wrong here

Here too, SF is given secure comms since the days of IPKF and that has tickeled down to the Infantry at LOC + RR too

JTAC is a certification mate while TACP controls the air assets and TACP consists of JTACs

And its neither our primary area of interests

Except I'm not. IED initiated ambushes and heavy offensives HAVE happened in Taliban, in fact IEDs are the bread and butter of the Taliban and have been the leading cause for casualties by far.
And no, Secure comms (both in tactical and operational domains) have never been a thing in the Indian military nor the SF, the IPKF is the worst example considering the operational compromise of the Jaffna raid, and the problem has persisted so far. There's still hasn't been a standardized procurement and distribution process for SDRs amongst other comms equipment.
And i don't see the contention regarding JTACs and TACPs here. The TACPs exist within the airforce to support their operations alone, my point was regarding the lack of JTAC qualified PARA SF and MARCOS personnel to coordinate CAS, or any deputations of JTAC qualified individuals in those two units.

 

[senapati3]

Garud with a Negev.

This is my friend who joined air force as an Airmen , and got into garuds , he later cleared Army SSB ( officer ) and now undergoing training for para SF.

I wasn't aware you could change service like that.