Indian Special Forces

[abingdonboy]

Barrage of counter-terrorism drills and PR from both NSG and CISF these last few weeks

Not really. They happen regularly.

 

[Chakraborty]

Will our training methods never change?

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You should never just compare things based on just pictures. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the tactics of NSG.
You should be rational in your comparison.
The NSG team seems to enter something like a hallway while the western sof team seems to enter a room. This fact itself is a big deciding factor in the tactics of the team.
You cannot possibly judge the situation on the field by simply looking at a photo.
The tactics in both the pictures are valid and needs to be practised. You would never possibly move along a hallway with your weapon in "high ready"position. The one demonstrated by NSG is a legit way of moving through a hallway.
Further we have also seen NSG using the "high ready" firearm position. So no need to be overly critical just to ridicule them. It is good to be critical but within a certain limit.
Regards.

 

[Fire and groove]

Most of their equipment are chinese knock offs

Nope, most of their equipment is sourced from proliferating US gear from the ANA itself beyond the occasional looting. Chinese weapons have little to no market penetration when it comes to foot soldiers.

 

[Fire and groove]

You should never just compare things based on just pictures. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the tactics of NSG.
You should be rational in your comparison.
The NSG team seems to enter something like a hallway while the western sof team seems to enter a room. This fact itself is a big deciding factor in the tactics of the team.
You cannot possibly judge the situation on the field by simply looking at a photo.
The tactics in both the pictures are valid and needs to be practised. You would never possibly move along a hallway with your weapon in "high ready"position. The one demonstrated by NSG is a legit way of moving through a hallway.
Further we have also seen NSG using the "high ready" firearm position. So no need to be overly critical just to ridicule them. It is good to be critical but within a certain limit.
Regards.

No one's pulling rear security.

 

[Chakraborty]

No one's pulling rear security.

They have actually cleared the room (which they are currently in) and are going for the hallway. So where is the need for a rear security? Perhaps they have set a sentry or two at the doorway of the room.
Rear security is not mandatory for a moving column. It depends on the circumstances.
Assigning a rear security at an unnecessary place is a waste of the manpower.
Besides they are not in a open hostile space where they are vulnerable to fire from all sides. They are in a closed space in a room of a building (that's probably cordoned) where they are fairly certain where from fire may come. Hence it depends upon them where to set a rear security and where not to.
Besides there are two columns facing each other from opposite direction. Hence the two columns can easily cover each other's back if need arises.
Regards.

 

[maximus777]

SSG = Special Surrender Group

Not an original one, but funny nevertheless!

 

[abingdonboy]

.

 

[abingdonboy]

Full video^

I’m sure some guys can pull some decent screenshots from it.

relatively decent gear

I guess they were limited in the purview of their drill, this was little more than a walkthrough, they couldn’t use (inside) flash bangs and obviously no breaching.

no shields that I noticed, seem to be hit and miss with NSG, they must have specific instances they bring them out. Also didn’t notice any K9s which is particularly odd for NSG, who knows what limitations they had at the location.

They REALLY need to get simmunition or at least blanks so they can simulate live fire during their on-site drills (obviously in a kill house they don’t have to bother with that)


Given there was SO much media around I dare say this was far from representative

+ this is in Indore so I wonder if these guys were from Mumbai or the GJ hub.

 

[rkhanna]

Full video^

I’m sure some guys can pull some decent screenshots from it.

relatively decent gear

I guess they were limited in the purview of their drill, this was little more than a walkthrough, they couldn’t use (inside) flash bangs and obviously no breaching.

no shields that I noticed, seem to be hit and miss with NSG, they must have specific instances they bring them out. Also didn’t notice any K9s which is particularly odd for NSG, who knows what limitations they had at the location.

They REALLY need to get simmunition or at least blanks so they can simulate live fire during their on-site drills (obviously in a kill house they don’t have to bother with that)


Given there was SO much media around I dare say this was far from representative

+ this is in Indore so I wonder if these guys were from Mumbai or the GJ hub.

Love how the camera HAS to be there lol

 

[Sir pe tapla]

All of the people here praising Taliban SF for equipment should realise that they spend everything on their SF while the rest of their Military roams around in Kurta Pajama, chappal, sandals, an AK and a goat (for recreational purposes ) .
It's not a sustainable model for our country where we are prioritising upgrading our conventional Infantry first. I mean for one SF kit, you can equip quite a lot of infantry troops.

Better a moderately equipped SF and a larger moderately equipped infantry, than fully equipped SF while leaving most of your larger infantry as a rag tag bunch of militia.

I may be wrong, but that is what I think.

 

[Marliii]

 

[Chakraborty]

Is the black one in the picture japanese SBU ?
Also the guy in the multicam is wearing a bump helmet.(probably because they are doing a rope exercise).

 

[Scramjet]

Is the black one in the picture japanese SBU ?
Also the guy in the multicam is wearing a bump helmet.(probably because they are doing a rope exercise).

Multicam - NSW (most likely SEALs?)
Black - japanese SBU

 

[Marliii]

Is the black one in the picture japanese SBU ?
Also the guy in the multicam is wearing a bump helmet.(probably because they are doing a rope exercise).

Yup its japanese

 

[JConline]

All of the people here praising Taliban SF for equipment should realise that they spend everything on their SF while the rest of their Military roams around in Kurta Pajama, chappal, sandals, an AK and a goat (for recreational purposes ) .
It's not a sustainable model for our country where we are prioritising upgrading our conventional Infantry first. I mean for one SF kit, you can equip quite a lot of infantry troops.

Better a moderately equipped SF and a larger moderately equipped infantry, than fully equipped SF while leaving most of your larger infantry as a rag tag bunch of militia.

I may be wrong, but that is what I think.

I was waiting for someone to say this but you need to understand that the whole point here is not to suggest that the Indian Army should follow their procurement methods and policy. But just a reminder that your potential enemy is well equipped and well trained. This was true even with the Chinese, but they are a multi trillion dollar economy, whereas the Taliban are a designated terror organization. And it can very well considered that these guys aren't half as bad if they comprise of disgruntled ANA SF and are trained by SSG and ISI.
Moreover, even if for a second we believe the Talibani leadership's claims that it will not interfere in Kashmir, the bigger concern here would be that this equipment is filtering across to the mujahideen in Kashmir. It's only a matter of time before you see terrorists from across the border looking like undercover CAG operatives with American gear and ethnic attire. And these guys again, having been trained by ISI and SSG will be a major headache for Indian security forces. And such gear and equipment are force multipliers. And the odds shouldn't be on the terrorist's side. Atleast equipment wise.
The question here about upgrades and procurements is not "How?" but "Why?".
Having said all this, ofcourse these guys won't survive against Para SF or RR or even CRPF QRT. But there'll definitely be a rise in friendly casualties. And that is, in itself a defeat.
(P.S. Realising the problem and pointing it out is not whining)

 

[Sir pe tapla]

I was waiting for someone to say this but you need to understand that the whole point here is not to suggest that the Indian Army should follow their procurement methods and policy. But just a reminder that your potential enemy is well equipped and well trained. This was true even with the Chinese, but they are a multi trillion dollar economy, whereas the Taliban are a designated terror organization. And it can very well considered that these guys aren't half as bad if they comprise of disgruntled ANA SF and are trained by SSG and ISI.
Moreover, even if for a second we believe the Talibani leadership's claims that it will not interfere in Kashmir, the bigger concern here would be that this equipment is filtering across to the mujahideen in Kashmir. It's only a matter of time before you see terrorists from across the border looking like undercover CAG operatives with American gear and ethnic attire. And these guys again, having been trained by ISI and SSG will be a major headache for Indian security forces. And such gear and equipment are force multipliers. And the odds shouldn't be on the terrorist's side. Atleast equipment wise.
The question here about upgrades and procurements is not "How?" but "Why?".
Having said all this, ofcourse these guys won't survive against Para SF or RR or even CRPF QRT. But there'll definitely be a rise in friendly casualties. And that is, in itself a defeat.
(P.S. Realising the problem and pointing it out is not whining)

But would they really divert their best assets for Kashmir? They have a huge armed rebellion uprising that is holding territory in their own country hence undermining the authority of Taliban. I think they would have to deal with them first before sending all these SF to Kashmir no?

And I am not in anyway saying that our SF needs upgrade. I am just saying with the amount of allocated budget, there is hardly any room for upgrading both the Infantry as well as SF. So we might have to make choice between focusing on allocating more budget and upgrading just SF or equal distribution of budget and slowly upgrading both infantry as well as SF. Difficult choice. We really need to allocate a larger percent of our gdp to armed forces, it is at an all time low. War is looming overhead and our role would be more important than ever.

 

[Inderjeet Singh]

 

[JConline]

We really need to allocate a larger percent of our gdp to armed forces, it is at an all time low. War is looming overhead and our role would be more important than ever.

Totally agree with you. We need to sort our priorities, man. The SOF of a military is the tip of the spear during an offensive. And by the looks of it, ours don't get that importance from the leadership.

 

[Chakraborty]

I do not know why but the garuds looks visually more aesthetic as compared to other SFs of Indian armed forces. Maybe due to their forward looking approach?
They seem to have better trigger discipline.
They seem to have better weapon handling .
They seem to have better gears(except headgear).
They seem to have better inherent body posture( that is more SOF like body posture).
They seem to have more knowledge about 'tacticool' stuffs.
They do not look sloppy.
Their procurement policy is perhaps better.
Most importantly they seem to have better uniformity(even in Kashmir).
These are some good things about the Garuds that the other SFs of India can instill among themselves.
By no means I mean to say garuds are better than para or Marcos. I know that the para sf and Marcos are far more experienced and are certainly better in buisness (I mean combat) that the Garud guys.

Just SOME aspects of garuds are better that can be inculcated by other guys in the SF.
Regards.

 

[India Super Power]

I was waiting for someone to say this but you need to understand that the whole point here is not to suggest that the Indian Army should follow their procurement methods and policy. But just a reminder that your potential enemy is well equipped and well trained. This was true even with the Chinese, but they are a multi trillion dollar economy, whereas the Taliban are a designated terror organization. And it can very well considered that these guys aren't half as bad if they comprise of disgruntled ANA SF and are trained by SSG and ISI.
Moreover, even if for a second we believe the Talibani leadership's claims that it will not interfere in Kashmir, the bigger concern here would be that this equipment is filtering across to the mujahideen in Kashmir. It's only a matter of time before you see terrorists from across the border looking like undercover CAG operatives with American gear and ethnic attire. And these guys again, having been trained by ISI and SSG will be a major headache for Indian security forces. And such gear and equipment are force multipliers. And the odds shouldn't be on the terrorist's side. Atleast equipment wise.
The question here about upgrades and procurements is not "How?" but "Why?".
Having said all this, ofcourse these guys won't survive against Para SF or RR or even CRPF QRT. But there'll definitely be a rise in friendly casualties. And that is, in itself a defeat.
(P.S. Realising the problem and pointing it out is not whining)

Last point of yours must be our sof's top priority
As we must not allow to increase our casualty