Indian Special Forces

[Bleh]

Sorry but that's how the western armies do it.

And they're receiving record low enlistments...

 

[kaboom]

Kinda unfair to service personnel..

I believe if you send your men to hell , you better stand with them through hell .
Don't use them as a Condom

Cut cost in every other place but give them proper equipments , training and care

 

[STORE 2.0]

 

[Kumaoni]

I believe if you send your men to hell , you better stand with them through hell .
Don't use them as a Condom

Cut cost in every other place but give them proper equipments , training and care

Indian forces don’t go through hell.

They go to little conflict zones and get hilariously outclassed by college dropouts.

 

[ALBY]

Sorry but that's how the western armies do it.

You could get decent pay for any job in west.Post retirement after 3 years as an Agniveer what fucking job you are going to expect a jawan to get in India ? For 99.99% the forces are an option to lead a decent life .If you lower the wages and other incentives the morale and motivation of men in uniform will deplete rapidly.

 

[abingdonboy]

I kind of agree with him... military personnels' thought on pensions for the service they have rendered is understandable.

If India wants to maintain a large Army then they have to allocate more, on pensions as well as modernization. Otherwise cut size & bring it down to 1 million if our economic cannot support its present size. That's what Americans and Chinese are doing too, and that's why we should send some veterans into mercenary contract groups. A 40-45 year old can totally serve in Israel.

Full fat pensions of the public sector are a burden on India across the board and why privatisation and disinvestment are happening as fast as possible. For the military this isn’t possible hence Agniveer and scaling down intake

they’ve not stated it officially (politically sensitive) but clearly the sim is to cut down manpower, >90% of the IA’s mammoth budget ($30bn annually) being spent on pensions/salaries is not sustainable whilst trying to modernise (which gets less than 5% of the budget allocation)

 

[abingdonboy]

You could get decent pay for any job in west.Post retirement after 3 years as an Agniveer what fucking job you are going to expect a jawan to get in India ? For 99.99% the forces are an option to lead a decent life .If you lower the wages and other incentives the morale and motivation of men in uniform will deplete rapidly.

25-50% of agniveers will get permanent commissions, the ones that don’t will have preferential intakes for CAPFs and they will also get accredited skills to take to the private sector.

government jobs should not be seen as the path to a good life forever

 

[Jedi Operator]

Damn boy. I could actually imagine our guys being penetrated like that. Our boy Ravinder Kaushik also happened to join the ranks of Pakistani Army. But imagine someone being in SF, trained to handle secret tasks and hiding it in the breifing room that the mission jeopardized not because the intel wasnt perfect but because you leaked it. Lol

 

[BhishmaMk5]

25-50% of agniveers will get permanent commissions, the ones that don’t will have preferential intakes for CAPFs and they will also get accredited skills to take to the private sector.

government jobs should not be seen as the path to a good life forever

My maternal great grandfather lost his life probably during 1947-48 war. His wife, who's now somewhere around 93, is still receiving the 40-50K monthly pension. She's receiving this from past 75 yrs.
When your SF, leave aside the regulars, do not have proper equips to operate, many are lacking on skills; you are sending freebies to a lady who probably do not even remember her husband's name by now.
This argument that we work at harsh circumstances apply to other hazard private sectors as well where most of men become "physically old" by the age of 40-45.

PS: Don't come after me on this pension issue; the equips which most of us demanding are for their use. Its on them how they want to fight future wars; throw their men in meat grinders(as they always do) and most survivors enjoy post retirement pensions OR train and equip them properly.

 

[kaboom]

Marcos

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

View attachment 228233

Marcos

High cuts,pcs pretty standard stuff by now for marcos can't see if they have comtacs in the pic

 

[abingdonboy]

My maternal great grandfather lost his life probably during 1947-48 war. His wife, who's now somewhere around 93, is still receiving the 40-50K monthly pension. She's receiving this from past 75 yrs.
When your SF, leave aside the regulars, do not have proper equips to operate, many are lacking on skills; you are sending freebies to a lady who probably do not even remember her husband's name by now.
This argument that we work at harsh circumstances apply to other hazard private sectors as well where most of men become "physically old" by the age of 40-45.

PS: Don't come after me on this pension issue; the equips which most of us demanding are for their use. Its on them how they want to fight future wars; throw their men in meat grinders(as they always do) and most survivors enjoy post retirement pensions OR train and equip them properly.

Pensions is just one (huge) part of the issue

it’s just a fact that the military in india for a long time was treated as just another government jobs program

Parrikar had said 20-30% of the IA’s manpower were the ‘fat’ that needed to be trimmed, there’s plenty of positions that could be cut and it wouldn’t lead to a single degradation in war fighting capability. And yes this includes the freaking batman system that the IAF/IN abolished DECADES ago

this can be done on the front end by just not replacing the positions as they go vacant and this imo is what is happening to a degree right now (the IA is considerably smaller already in 2023 than it was in 2019)

expansion in CAPFs also means the IA can move away from manpower intensive COIN and mechanise more- but the upfront capital cost of this is huge and they have peanuts (CAPEX) to play with because of aforementioned issues.

no matter what anyone says this is not a quick fix, fruits of decisions taken 3-5 years ago will take 10-20 years to really play out

As this is a SF thread- all of the above is relevant but also kind of not. The outfit and train Indian SF to any sort of respectable level doesn’t require massive structural changes although it would likely require a sizeable shrinking of the IA’s ‘SF’ strength but the biggest issue Is there’s just no doctrine around SF so they are given so little importance and hence these abysmal results

 

[Kumaoni]

Pensions is just one (huge) part of the issue

it’s just a fact that the military in india for a long time was treated as just another government jobs program

Parrikar had said 20-30% of the IA’s manpower were the ‘fat’ that needed to be trimmed, there’s plenty of positions that could be cut and it wouldn’t lead to a single degradation in war fighting capability. And yes this includes the freaking batman system that the IAF/IN abolished DECADES ago

this can be done on the front end by just not replacing the positions as they go vacant and this imo is what is happening to a degree right now (the IA is considerably smaller already in 2023 than it was in 2019)

expansion in CAPFs also means the IA can move away from manpower intensive COIN and mechanise more- but the upfront capital cost of this is huge and they have peanuts (CAPEX) to play with because of aforementioned issues.

no matter what anyone says this is not a quick fix, fruits of decisions taken 3-5 years ago will take 10-20 years to really play out

As this is a SF thread- all of the above is relevant but also kind of not. The outfit and train Indian SF to any sort of respectable level doesn’t require massive structural changes although it would likely require a sizeable shrinking of the IA’s ‘SF’ strength but the biggest issue Is there’s just no doctrine around SF so they are given so little importance and hence these abysmal results

Indian Army has no SF. Nor has it had any SF. Nor has it ever intended to create SF, barring two years in the 90s.

The issue is that Indian Upper Brass and strategic thinkers have zero understand of what an SF actually is. What India has had, is regular infantry and super infantry. I cannot think of any operation done by Para SF that was not tactical in nature, inclduing even their raids in 1971.The first change that is required is for policy makes to get an understanding of what SOF is meant to be. Without it, no change can actually happen.

 

[abingdonboy]

Indian Army has no SF. Nor has it had any SF. Nor has it ever intended to create SF, barring two years in the 90s.

The issue is that Indian Upper Brass and strategic thinkers have zero understand of what an SF actually is. What India has had, is regular infantry and super infantry. I cannot think of any operation done by Para SF that was not tactical in nature, inclduing even their raids in 1971.The first change that is required is for policy makes to get an understanding of what SOF is meant to be. Without it, no change can actually happen.

They changed the name to SF from ‘commandos’ but never enshrined the difference so it’s just old wine in a new bottle.

expansion in the early 10s and most recently of their numbers has cemented this

as I’ve said I wish they could simply drop the SF name from those battalions altogether- the para regiment actually would be a fine elite light infantry force especially for rapid mobilisation sort of like the 82nd airborne or 16 Air Assault

i watched this doc series recently

and it’s got me thinking about if India had to undertake something like this it would likely send the 50th Para brigade and it would be absurd to have (nominally) ‘Special forces’ soldiers of India deployed by the 100s standing around in static defensive lines alongside light airborne infantry of other nations and shows just how screwed up the situation is and how little anyone with any sense has actually thought this through

not only is there no SF capability there’s little credible airborne infantry capability left in the IA thanks to recent changes either, hard to believe you could screw up so badly but this is the kind of leadership present

 

[Kumaoni]

They changed the name to SF from ‘commandos’ but never enshrined the difference so it’s just old wine in a new bottle.

expansion in the early 10s and most recently of their numbers has cemented this

as I’ve said I wish they could simply drop the SF name from those battalions altogether- the para regiment actually would be a fine elite light infantry force especially for rapid mobilisation sort of like the 82nd airborne or 16 Air Assault

i watched this doc series recently

and it’s got me thinking about if India had to undertake something like this it would likely send the 50th Para brigade and it would be absurd to have (nominally) ‘Special forces’ soldiers of India deployed by the 100s standing around in static defensive lines alongside light airborne infantry of other nations and shows just how screwed up the situation is and how little anyone with any sense has actually thought this through

not only is there no SF capability there’s little credible airborne infantry capability left in the IA thanks to recent changes either, hard to believe you could screw up so badly but this is the kind of leadership present

Do you think the Paras could replicate an Op Cactus lilly? Or a 1971 Helidrop operation again? I very much doubt they can.

 

[abingdonboy]

Do you think the Paras could replicate an Op Cactus lilly? Or a 1971 Helidrop operation again? I very much doubt they can.

They’d have to send an almost 100% ‘SF’ force to do so which is absurd and shows how little the IA has in terms of actual SF capability if almost 100% of their airborne infantry are in fact badged as Special forces

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

@airborneCommando @Spadex does it look like Marco's got comtacs? In the second pic

 

[kaboom]

Hmmm enhance

there seems to be something plastiky under the high cut could be a mask or comtacts or earpeices

 

[mcpo117]

High cuts,pcs pretty standard stuff by now for marcos can't see if they have comtacs in the pic

yes they are wearing some form of earmuffs it seems.