Indian Special Forces

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

What cowardice did i show ? Plus, I am not here to hang someone. I just put forward my questions/doubts i had regarding the whole fiasco. Some members gave fair enough answers already.

I would appreciate directly quoting my post and countering it rather than saying things like seasoned member saying this or member with family in fauj

 

[airborneCommando]

I would appreciate directly quoting my post and countering it rather than saying things like seasoned member saying this or member with family in fauj

I didn't exactly remember who it was, the only thing i could recall was that the member who mentioned it was a senior member thats all.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I didn't exactly remember who it was, the only thing i could recall was that the member who mentioned it was a senior member thats all.

please quote it directly there and then and avoid the confusion.As far as your reference is concerned..I am a senior member with family in fauj who said that Indian SF got in action in the morning after first light which is also mentioned in the article.

 

[abingdonboy]

Book knowledge isnt going to solve this. We need first class instructors from all around the world. Pay ex special operations guys exorbitant amount of money so they spill all the secrets and tactics employed around the world. We need teachers who can teach our brass about modern equipment and how to properly use them. There also has to be a willingness to learn, it requires humbleness.

The first way to solve a problem is to admit there is one…..

there’s probably the capacity to solve this without even getting many foreign instructors in, just finding the right guys and sending them on the right courses abroad or even just creating a specific unit with a specific mandate that operates away from the COIN environment of India and gets some real real world experience

‘we are the best blah blah blah’ attitude of the senior most military leaders who feed this nonsense to their civilian overlords is going to see this same cycle repeated in perpetuity

there’s something about Indian/south Asian mentality and always trying to get away with the least amount of effort and maximum corner cutting, jugaad mindset maybe? Chalta hai?

the day when China humbles india is not far, instead of introspection I know what the response will be- denials, chest thumping and opaqueness then a complete shift in narrative. The Chinese don’t play desi tit for tat games, they are a civilisational player and india doesn’t seem to recognise this is a civilisational fight

 

[Kumaoni]

One thing is constant in any risky job. Casualties, yet I don't endorse that we accept and behave the same. Refinements and restructuring of SOPs are an endless task. In military they say SOPs are written in blood.

I'd have accepted it if the OP knows the context in its entirety. Even if he does, his choice of words is not convincing

I hope you realize that IA was suffering 5 KIA in single ambushes back when the militancy was Afghanistan 2.0. All we want is for less casualties and better SOF accountability.

 

[Kumaoni]

the day when China humbles india is not far

China soundly humbled India in Galwan.

 

[jai jaganath]

Sometimes I wish India joined the western block. The US might drag our military to modernization.

Even in 2019 USA cds or coas I don't remember perfectly recommending us to take their expertise in building afsod and build a modern and dynamic sof along their assistance but we as usual declined

 

[jai jaganath]

China soundly humbled India in Galwan.

In sof things will go damn worse coz they have hired western ex sof trainers for their upliftment in training sop and equipments
Especially European trainers
Which they have done significantly

 

[Kumaoni]

Sometimes I wish India joined the western block. The US might drag our military to modernization.

Joining a block won’t drag our military to modernization. We plenty train with western SFs, Russian SFs, etc. we get the best of both of worlds. It solely and squarely the army brass and Indian governments responsibility for spear heading modernization. Else you’ll just get another Pakistan.

 

[jai jaganath]

Joining a block won’t drag our military to modernization. We plenty train with western SFs, Russian SFs, etc. we get the best of both of worlds. It solely and squarely the army brass and Indian governments responsibility for spear heading modernization. Else you’ll just get another Pakistan.

Joining a bloc and joint training are 2 different worlds
The amount of knowledge and synergy in bloc is unmatchable in these joint trainings

 

[Kumaoni]

What’s the kill ratio for security forces in JK? 1.1:1? 30++ years

Varies by year. Last year it was a sound 7 terrorists: 1 SF personnel. Highest kill ratio since 2003.

 

[abingdonboy]

China soundly humbled India in Galwan.

That was a strategic success

i mean tactical screw ups, I know the weak CCP/PLA conscript trope is used to comfort many Indian fanboys(and professionals) but they are investing absurd money into tech and mechanisation. Indian tactical options will become very limited when the Chinese can see further, hit harder and move quicker

on the SOF side PLA is actually interested in modernising their elite units with actual contemporary equipment, anyone that doesn’t think this translates into capabilities is deluding themselves.

are we going to see Tavor carrying ACH wearing PARAs charging up mountains in daylight again?

 

[Kumaoni]

That was a strategic success

i mean tactical screw ups, I know the weak CCP/PLA conscript trope is used to comfort many Indian fanboys(and professionals) but they are investing absurd money into tech and mechanisation. Indian tactical options will become very limited when the Chinese can see further, hit harder and move quicker

on the SOF side PLA is actually interested in modernising their elite units with actual contemporary equipment, anyone that doesn’t think this translates into capabilities is deluding themselves.

They released pictures of our captured jawans. We couldn’t do the same barring one captured officer in Pangong. They easily won the propaganda war.

I also do not understand why Paras use Tavors. And yes, unfortunately we will likely see them doing infantry jobs instead of actual SOF missions like raids on enemy bases, raids on dumps, and elimination of high value targets.

 

[mcpo117]

Have a look at Russia..stupidity has no excuses.

They are better equipped than us and we don't know how to put optics on a rifle.

By modernization I did mean teaching tactics and basic equipment handling skills too. Not just buying stuff.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

The first way to solve a problem is to admit there is one…..

there’s probably the capacity to solve this without even getting many foreign instructors in, just finding the right guys and sending them on the right courses abroad or even just creating a specific unit with a specific mandate that operates away from the COIN environment of India and gets some real real world experience

‘we are the best blah blah blah’ attitude of the senior most military leaders who feed this nonsense to their civilian overlords is going to see this same cycle repeated in perpetuity

there’s something about Indian/south Asian mentality and always trying to get away with the least amount of effort and maximum corner cutting, jugaad mindset maybe? Chalta hai?

the day when China humbles india is not far, instead of introspection I know what the response will be- denials, chest thumping and opaqueness then a complete shift in narrative. The Chinese don’t play desi tit for tat games, they are a civilisational player and india doesn’t seem to recognise this is a civilisational fight

The IAF is no different..

Electronic Flight Bag were inducted in USAF in 2012..My airline in India inducted it in 2015ish..You know when did the IAF induct it?…2021!!!!!!

Crew Resource Management training which is mandatory in civil sector started in good airlines in the last century and part of my airline since day 1..When did the IAF think it is important??

2022 !!!!!

 

[Pythonlover]

Book knowledge isnt going to solve this. We need first class instructors from all around the world. Pay ex special operations guys exorbitant amount of money so they spill all the secrets and tactics employed around the world. We need teachers who can teach our brass about modern equipment and how to properly use them. There also has to be a willingness to learn, it requires humbleness.

Thinking in this way is senseless. Though I understand our education system focuses on rote learning, but actual learning develops critical thinking and analysis power. Such abilities will allow officers to think beyond what they are being taught and develop new tactics and strategy. It will also allow them to use knowledge and technology in other domains in combat.

Every officer must have proper education and degrees. I think people underestimate how much reading books and education develop people's thinking ability. A good officer must have thinking capability, logical and analytical ability to improvise and think new ways to win battles and wars.

 

[Blood+]

Thinking in this way is senseless. Though I understand our education system focuses on rote learning, but actual learning develops critical thinking and analysis power. Such abilities will allow officers to think beyond what they are being taught and develop new tactics and strategy. It will also allow them to use knowledge and technology in other domains in combat.

Every officer must have proper education and degrees. I think people underestimate how much reading books and education develop people's thinking ability. A good officer must have thinking capability, logical and analytical ability to improvise and think new ways to win battles and wars.

Thank you, matey. Couldn't have summed it up any better myself.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

View attachment 209424

I don't understand why Indian SF units rarely have IR laser/Illuminators on their rifles. Isn't that a crucial component for aiming at night with NVG's?

 

[mcpo117]

I don't understand why Indian SF units rarely have IR laser/Illuminators on their rifles. Isn't that a crucial component for aiming at night with NVG's?

doston bohut hua. I'm gonna go play MoH Warfighter to sooth my frustrations. Shubh Ratri!

 

[Blood+]

doston bohut hua. I'm gonna go play MoH Warfighter to sooth my frustrations. Shubh Ratri!

Play MoH 2010 instead, Warfighter sucks.