Indian Special Forces

[Jedi Operator]

I can think of one
View attachment 174475

who? who?

 

[abingdonboy]

Whenever it says "similar to" he means "should be similar to"

By the way SG is like Delta Force. They don't train too much for Maritime Counterterrorism and do a lot of intel ops too, see that interview of Colin Maclachlan on Chris Thrall's channel...he says Delta Force is not the US military's main door kicker. In book relentless strike they say, Delta trained Iraqi personnel to spy for them and got more embedded with CIA than SAD's ground branch

This is all wrong.

SG are not a DA type SOF. They aren’t a military unit.

they are the action arm of R&AW and have their own utility. Let’s just leave it at that

the Indian army doesn’t need yet another unit to dilute and make ‘special’

 

[abingdonboy]

Imo special group should not be moved out of raw, put 9 para in place of special group and deem it as a tier 1 unit. Similar to the Americans, cuz delta while being a part of jsoc is also part of asoc.

Just calling something tier 1 does not make it so.

form follows function. The US has what it has because of the mandate that is set from the very top. No point in having a ‘tier 1 unit’ if senior leadership don’t even know what an infantry battalion does.

get the function and mandate right and everything else will follow

it’s 2022 and india doesn’t even have a SOCOM, it just killed off its most experienced and numerous SF capability (paras) and can’t even figure out there’s a difference between airborne infantry and SOF. Everything else is just frustrated imaginary fanboy musings. Until you hear of sensible reforms taking place and capability being the focus- not numbers- then this is a terminal death spiral

 

[Jedi Operator]

This is all wrong.

SG are not a DA type SOF. They aren’t a military unit.

they are the action arm of R&AW and have their own utility. Let’s just leave it at that

the Indian army doesn’t need yet another unit to dilute and make ‘special’

I saw that interview with a 1 Para SF guy also in NSG and SG.....he said in SG also they do similar ops like he did in the valley but in a different sense and some troops are their that do ops with R&AW

Also it's a bit here as of now, SG was set up as a counter terrorist unit. I think however that over time their might be some changes done

 

[Jedi Operator]

Just calling something tier 1 does not make it so.

form follows function. The US has what it has because of the mandate that is set from the very top. No point in having a ‘tier 1 unit’ if senior leadership don’t even know what an infantry battalion does.

get the function and mandate right and everything else will follow

it’s 2022 and india doesn’t even have a SOCOM, it just killed off its most experienced and numerous SF capability (paras) and can’t even figure out there’s a difference between airborne infantry and SOF. Everything else is just frustrated imaginary fanboy musings. Until you hear of sensible reforms taking place and capability being the focus- not numbers- then this is a terminal death spiral

Most of what we call America's Tier 1 units started with the failure of Op Eagle Claw:

SEAL Team 6
160th SOAR
ISA
RRC
renaming Brand X to 24th STS
forming of JSOC

Again what i shared was out of a midnight discussion, what i actually feel is that without a proper feedback loop and understanding you cant build a tier 1 unit

 

[abingdonboy]

I saw that interview with a 1 Para SF guy also in NSG and SG.....he said in SG also they do similar ops like he did in the valley but in a different sense and some troops are their that do ops with R&AW

Also it's a bit here as of now, SG was set up as a counter terrorist unit. I think however that over time their might be some changes done

No it was not setup as a CT unit and if you think JK is even 10% of their focus then you are wrong. R&AW is an external intelligence agency, not a state intel agency and SG aren’t some ATS team.

like I said, it’s better to leave this subject to the imagination but if you go into a discussion assuming SG are just R&AW’s para SF equivalent then it’s incorrect. Let SG be SG and R&AW be R&AW, the IA doesn’t need to own (and ruin) everything. R&AW has plenty of uses for its combat arm and a lot more freedoms.

 

[abingdonboy]

Most of what we call America's Tier 1 units started with the failure of Op Eagle Claw:

SEAL Team 6
160th SOAR
ISA
RRC
renaming Brand X to 24th STS
forming of JSOC

Again what i shared was out of a midnight discussion, what i actually feel is that without a proper feedback loop and understanding you cant build a tier 1 unit

Basically correct.

tier 1 refers to national mission units, so it goes without saying that first there has to be a national mission mandate for them to serve.

remember that today the civilian leadership have no direct C&C with any unit, they have to go through individual service HQs so the current setup just keeps the leadership dumb and ignorant.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Special groups operations seem to be closer to DEVGRU IMO.

More like CIA's paramilitary operations/SAC

 

[Tactical Doge]

who? who?

@Lonewolf

 

[rkhanna]

Check Cdr Rawat's interviews he says "The Few The Fearless" became MARCOS motto in 2006, MARCOS got it's own badge somewhere in early 2000s too. Old school MARCOS motto he mentions was "We dare to win"

I remember the interviews. Let me do some R&D and call some people over the weekend. I always thought he got the SAS / SBS nomenclature wrong by mistake though lifting of the motto and inspiration being two different things

 

[rkhanna]

Most of what we call America's Tier 1 units started with the failure of Op Eagle Claw:

SEAL Team 6
160th SOAR
ISA
RRC
renaming Brand X to 24th STS
forming of JSOC

Again what i shared was out of a midnight discussion, what i actually feel is that without a proper feedback loop and understanding you cant build a tier 1 unit

Without a proper feedback look you cannot build a toilet. Because this is India we put the cart before the horse

 

[Jedi Operator]

Found this.
It was something to do with US Army SOCOM, but I don't know what exactly is the darker gradient here

 

[apoorv465]

Most of what we call America's Tier 1 units started with the failure of Op Eagle Claw:

SEAL Team 6
160th SOAR
ISA
RRC
renaming Brand X to 24th STS
forming of JSOC

Again what i shared was out of a midnight discussion, what i actually feel is that without a proper feedback loop and understanding you cant build a tier 1 unit

That's the thing the US adapts with their successes and failures. They change things according to the situation.

In India that does not happen. Let's say something like pampore like situation happens again the Paras might do the exact same thing they did last time. No change at all.

 

[rkhanna]

View attachment 174493

Found this.
It was something to do with US Army SOCOM, but I don't know what exactly is the darker gradient here

I would assume gradient is infantry - 10th mountain - 82nd - Ranger - SF - Delta .

Gradient could mean complexity and success risk of the mission as well ?

 

[thefewthefearless]

Also it's a bit here as of now, SG was set up as a counter terrorist unit. I think however that over time their might be some changes done

haha, you're a funny guy.

sg are deployed frequently in kashmir and ne. work closely with paras. some are embedded behind enemy lines (not permanent). sg is not tier 1 or something. their role is different, plus i've heard that they've more freedom for weapons (don't quote me on this). i think there was a writeup by somebody who posted here. talked about sg.

 

[Jedi Operator]

haha, you're a funny guy.

sg are deployed frequently in kashmir and ne. work closely with paras. some are embedded behind enemy lines (not permanent). sg is not tier 1 or something. their role is different, plus i've heard that they've more freedom for weapons (don't quote me on this). i think there was a writeup by somebody who posted here. talked about sg.

Ok....lets hope Ranveer asks some childish questions to Ex SG Chandra Vijay Singh that he would have to clear on what SG is actually like (I don't usually watch Ranveer cause he just seems kinda stupid but I've watched those interviews he has done with SF which again could've been much better).

By the way, I asked Cdr Vijay, even he thinks Bullpups are less maneuverable and less ambidextrous. So why not the AR platform. Seems like in this country AK is the answer to most of the things. Nothing wrong their but still

 

[Jedi Operator]

So i saw the podcast, nothing about SG. Understandable. But you ask an SF veteran this:
"Veg Khana Mil Jata hei Jungle mei?"
Ssly ye Ranveer Allahbadia kessa admi hei yaar

If you want to see a podcast about Indian SF see this:


He talks about his sniper position vs Israeli sniper position....honestly he is right. I have seen American and Brits having the same way. He also says he was the only one to hit a target at 900 meters. So Major Avinash said we have marksmen who can shoot at 800mt but sniping is actually firing beyond 800 meters, So i assume that we have a real sniper here. Also he talks his time with naval intelligence and being trained to keep a cover Identity. If MARCOS has it's snipers doing clandestine reconnaissance, like he said that in one deployment he spent the entire time disguised as a militant. That seems some DEVGRU Black Squadron worthy stuff at a desi sasta level.

 

[Kumaoni]

More like CIA's paramilitary operations/SAC

I’d say a mix in between.

 

[Kumaoni]

So i saw the podcast, nothing about SG. Understandable. But you ask an SF veteran this:
"Veg Khana Mil Jata hei Jungle mei?"
Ssly ye Ranveer Allahbadia kessa admi hei yaar

If you want to see a podcast about Indian SF see this:


He talks about his sniper position vs Israeli sniper position....honestly he is right. I have seen American and Brits having the same way. He also says he was the only one to hit a target at 900 meters. So Major Avinash said we have marksmen who can shoot at 800mt but sniping is actually firing beyond 800 meters, So i assume that we have a real sniper here. Also he talks his time with naval intelligence and being trained to keep a cover Identity. If MARCOS has it's snipers doing clandestine reconnaissance, like he said that in one deployment he spent the entire time disguised as a militant. That seems some DEVGRU Black Squadron worthy stuff at a desi sasta level.

Talent is definetly their in the armed forces, no doubt about it.

 

[samsaptaka]

Why are you so pessimistic

Better be, so that reality does not hit you hard