Indian Special Forces

[Spindrift]

2. The Army (and police by extension) have the powers of the state. i.e the Power to take LIFE. that means that they are to be held to a higher standard than the normal populace AND be subject to scrutiny. (as uncomfortable as it may become)

The state does not have to right to take life willy nilly without following due process. Secondly, i think you are talking about right to self defense which every citizen has under Aricle 21 and sections 96 to 106 of the IPC and section 100 of the IPC deals with taking life of someone else to protect one's own life.

 

[rkhanna]

The state does not have to right to take life willy nilly without following due process. Secondly, i think you are talking about right to self defense which every citizen has under Aricle 21 and sections 96 to 106 of the IPC and section 100 of the IPC deals with taking life of someone else to protect one's own life.

No i mean the Military and the Police have the Powers of state to take life over and above the right to self defence which every citizen has . Ofcourse within the confines of the law - i e the Death Penalty - the forces are allowed to be judge jury and executioner within their powers. But the same is not applicable to a citizen. hence they are held to a higher standard.

 

[Spindrift]

No i mean the Military and the Police have the Powers of state to take life over and above the right to self defence which every citizen has . Ofcourse within the confines of the law - i e the Death Penalty - the forces are allowed to be judge jury and executioner within their powers. But the same is not applicable to a citizen. hence they are held to a higher standard.

Police does not, Military to an extent under AFSPA, but there are rules.

 

[rkhanna]

Police does not, Military to an extent under AFSPA, but there are rules.

I dont think you understand what i am saying at all. Both the Police and the Army can shoot you and kill you and be justified for doing so within the confines of the ROE's issued to them. They can LEGALLY take life as they are AGENTS of the State - what do you think an 'Encounter' is. it goes beyond saying that its not willy nilly.

 

[Indrajit]

Disagree.

1. Army cannot side with its 'people' OVER the indian population. They SERVE the Indian population. the Indian Population is their master.
- The Army has the RIGHT to defend its actions and a decent amount of leaway to protect itself BUT this is an extremely fine line AND has to be done within the confines of the rule of law. the Army is subservient to the law not above it.

2. The Army (and police by extension) have the powers of the state. i.e the Power to take LIFE. that means that they are to be held to a higher standard than the normal populace AND be subject to scrutiny. (as uncomfortable as it may become)

3. Lastly - please dont segregate the Armed Forces from the rest of the Populatiion and put them on a pedestial - I come from a family that has served in the Armed Forces and Police going back to WWII - this is the lesson taught to me repeatedly by my elders.

Lack of Accountability within the Armed Forces is already hurting us in a 100 different places. Accountability can lead to evolution in the right direction if the attitude is so.

Regret the unfortunate phrasing and probable inadvertent understanding of the words " its people ". Was said with a limited context in mind but your point on everyone in the country being its people is well taken.

I wasn't suggesting that there should be no accountability but that in reference to the post being replied to, that simply sending every complaint to court and asking for the personnel involved to attend till judgment was a sureshot method to destroy the force. I'm all for accountability and that could include civilian courts but only after a carefuly investigation determined that a probable case is made out.

All other points made by you brook no disagreements from me.

 

[Spindrift]

I dont think you understand what i am saying at all. Both the Police and the Army can shoot you and kill you and be justified for doing so within the confines of the ROE's issued to them. They can LEGALLY take life as they are AGENTS of the State - what do you think an 'Encounter' is. it goes beyond saying that its not willy nilly.

I understand what you are saying. Yes, the police and the army can shoot to kill, but they need to justify that. Specifically, the police needs to provide proof that the killing was a justified homicide under the relevant law.

Encounter is euphemism for extra judicial killings which are illegal. There have been both soldiers and police men convicted for that. A recent example would be the Nagaland incident.

 

[rkhanna]

I understand what you are saying. Yes, the police and the army can shoot to kill, but they need to justify that. Specifically, the police needs to provide proof that the killing was a justified homicide under the relevant law.

Encounter is euphemism for extra judicial killings which are illegal. There have been both soldiers and police men convicted for that. A recent example would be the Nagaland incident.

Sirji Power of the state assumes justification. nothing is without justification. The Justification is the Law and Constitution. Even the death penalty has to be Justified. A civilian however does not have that power or right EVEN in self defence - he is still tried and has to defend himself in a court of law and even in self defence he can be sentenced to prison.

Encounter is actually armed police action and are absolutely acceptable - not extra judicial killing. Cops use the cover of encounters to do Extra Judicial Killings is besides the point here.

Keep in mind what i am saying is that The Armed Forces / Police have the power to take life not commit murder.

 

[Spindrift]

Sirji Power of the state assumes justification. nothing is without justification. The Justification is the Law and Constitution. Even the death penalty has to be Justified. A civilian however does not have that power or right EVEN in self defence - he is still tried and has to defend himself in a court of law and even in self defence he can be sentenced to prison.

Encounter is actually armed police action and are absolutely acceptable - not extra judicial killing. Cops use the cover of encounters to do Extra Judicial Killings is besides the point here.

Keep in mind what i am saying is that The Armed Forces / Police have the power to take life not commit murder.

Justification is not the law that act has to be justified within the ambit of the law.

Secondly, right to life in Article 21 of the constitution within its ambit includes the right to self\private defense which is further enumerated in section 96 of the IPC which reads as "Things done in private defence. —Nothing is an offence which is done in the exercise of the right of private defence. "

I know of a couple of cases where the person who acted in self defense and killed someone did not even spend one day on jail and in all cases the IO (investigating officer) was an honest man he did proper investigation and filed the closure report stating that it was justified homicide and I know of one instance when a person acted in self defense was jailed for one year because the IO asked for a bribe and the guy did not pay it, but eventually the case was dismissed as the prosecution did not have any evidence to prove the murder charges that were bought against him.

Moreover, there have been several Supreme Court judgements where right to self defense of civilians has been affirmed.

 

[rkhanna]

Justification is not the law that act has to be justified within the ambit of the law.

Secondly, right to life in Article 21 of the constitution within its ambit includes the right to self\private defense which is further enumerated in section 96 of the IPC which reads as "Things done in private defence. —Nothing is an offence which is done in the exercise of the right of private defence. "

I know of a couple of cases where the person who acted in self defense and killed someone did not even spend one day on jail and in all cases the IO (investigating officer) was an honest man he did proper investigation and filed the closure report stating that it was justified homicide and I know of one instance when a person acted in self defense was jailed for one year because the IO asked for a bribe and the guy did not pay it, but eventually the case was dismissed as the prosecution did not have any evidence to prove the murder charges that were bought against him.

Moreover, there have been several Supreme Court judgements where right to self defense of civilians has been affirmed.

Okay one last time since this is now way off topic. A RIGHT is different from POWER. The POWER of the state is different from the RIGHT of a citizen.

 

[Mikel]

5 minutes into the interview and the channel already fucks up. Showing an NSG photo as Marcos.

 

[SGOperative]

5 minutes into the interview and the channel already fucks up. Showing an NSG photo as Marcos.

Toh kya kare ham? Jake video report kare?

 

[Mikel]

Toh kya kare ham? Jake video report kare?

Yes

 

[jai jaganath]

Toh kya kare ham? Jake video report kare?

I guess yes we should

 

[Sourajit Dutta]

5 minutes into the interview and the channel already fucks up. Showing an NSG photo as Marcos.

Some of y'all seriously concentrate on wrong things. Ranveer's podcasts are more like an introduction of parts of military to civilians, which include fanboy-ish questions.
What's interesting is, never knew that Barack Obama as POTUS, his security in India was provided by MARCOS!
Also, what we can do is, comment about corrections that can be made in his podcasts.

 

[Bhaubai]

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Can anyone ID it?

Starting to think that it’s not the MKU one as I initially guessed.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Can anyone ID it?
View attachment 170263
View attachment 170262
Starting to think that it’s not the MKU one as I initially guessed.

@Saumyasupraik belives it’s most likely from BEL.

 

[Tactical Doge]

Can anyone ID it?
View attachment 170263
View attachment 170262
Starting to think that it’s not the MKU one as I initially guessed.

Looks kinda different to me mate

 

[Aditya Ballal]

@Saumyasupraik belives it’s most likely from BEL.

Only clearish image of the DRDO/BEL one.
And an excerpt from DRDO.

 

[jai jaganath]

View attachment 170267
Only clearish image of the DRDO/BEL one.
And an excerpt from DRDO.

View attachment 170269

Could be tonbo