Indian Special Forces

[Waanar]

TLDR your posts too, they aren't some wunderbar pearls of wisdom either. Pad, ja napad, mera kya jhata hai.

Discuss or don't discuss, I am just saying if you're one to believe like some others that we have no SF only good infantry, well you're in the kool aid + piss drinking gang too.

SF is by tasking, not by training so yeah we have SF. Also, since all of the guys are actually locals and familiar with the local culture, i.e, Pakistani and Myanmarese (Burmese?), we do have SOFs.

As I said, there are two ways you can look at it-
All of our infantry is SOF or none are.

With the recent conversion of Paratroopers to SF (in 3 months too at that) I thought we'd finally see some reprisal from "Army ji ne kiya hai toh kuch soch ke kiya hoga" mentality.

Do you think it's possible to convert a whole paratrooper battalion into an operational SF battalion within a couple of months?

What does it say about the gap in capability of our SF and regular infantry (Paratroopers are mere infantry trained in static line jumps with maybe a better budget than others)?

Ruminate on it.

How is it possible to convert an infantry battalion into a SF one within a few months when other countries (even ours) take longer for their probation/selection/whatever and then start their actual training pipeline?

Either we have very elite infantry through and through or we have a very small skill gap to overcome between our SOFs and paratroopers.
Which is it?


(I TLDR my posts all the time btw and they are downright glorious enlightening pearls of wisdom you mortals should be thankful for)

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

How many have lost their family members here like me?

Please comment.

Then we will file a Request Letter to criticize with the desh bhakts of this forum.

 

[Immanuel]

What if they are true
They are commenting over their performance and abilities not over their intent and sacrifice

I see comments from those guys who like to judge, compare and then berate our forces about their performance and abilities everyday. This shite has been going on for decade or more. They have no respect for our forces and I have no respect for them.

 

[Waanar]

I see comments from those guys who like to judge, compare and then berate our forces about their performance and abilities everyday. This shite has been going on for decade or more. They have no respect for our forces and I have no respect for them.

We never disrespect Belgian armed forces brah. They aren't even a blip on the radar.
Dunno what you talking about.

 

[Marliii]

We never disrespect Belgian armed forces brah. They aren't even a blip on the radar.
Dunno what you talking about.

Well you have to agree on one thing Belgian army camo is shitty on a whole other level

 

[shouryav105]

That's the gang that keep saying our SF are only good infantry. They call them illiterate, they say they can't shoot, don't know how to wear helmets, gloves, kneepads, elbow pads, those who bitch and whine all day about our soldiers, our command and structure etc.

Our SF guys are not illiterate,They can shoot for sure, I never heard someone say that our sf dont know how to wear helmet lol, Many dont wear gloves ,they should because it provides better grip and dexterity but since standard issue are knuckle gloves,I cant blame them ,Non integrated kneepads are useless unless you are in rigid terrain, which we are , but elbow pads are super uncomfortable for climbing or going prone , most guys dont wear pads in real ops ,Well our command and structure is literally shit and its a defence forum, what you want us to do ?

 

[Waanar]

Well you have to agree on one thing Belgian armies camo is shitty on a whole other level

This one?

Army ji ne kiya hai toh kuch soch ke hi kiya hoga.

 

[Immanuel]

SF is by tasking, not by training so yeah we have SF. Also, since all of the guys are actually locals and familiar with the local culture, i.e, Pakistani and Myanmarese (Burmese?), we do have SOFs.

As I said, there are two ways you can look at it-
All of our infantry is SOF or none are.

With the recent conversion of Paratroopers to SF (in 3 months too at that) I thought we'd finally see some reprisal from "Army ji ne kiya hai toh kuch soch ke kiya hoga" mentality.

Do you think it's possible to convert a whole paratrooper battalion into an operational SF battalion within a couple of months?

What does it say about the gap in capability of our SF and regular infantry (Paratroopers are mere infantry trained in static line jumps with maybe a better budget than others)?

Ruminate on it.

How is it possible to convert an infantry battalion into a SF one within a few months when other countries (even ours) take longer for their probation/selection/whatever and then start their actual training pipeline?

Either we have very elite infantry through and through or we have a very small skill gap to overcome between our SOFs and paratroopers.
Which is it?


(I TLDR my posts all the time btw and they are downright glorious enlightening pearls of wisdom you mortals should be thankful for)

As for the conversion of para airborne to SF, I think they have a small skill gap, considering it's be done so many times now. Glorious pearls of wisdom or yellow piss drops, eitherway I am staying away.

 

[shouryav105]

I see comments from those guys who like to judge, compare and then berate our forces about their performance and abilities everyday. This shite has been going on for decade or more. They have no respect for our forces and I have no respect for them.

Well our sf guys definitely have balls, they risk their lives for our country ,but that is not excuse to not point out shortcomings specially on a defence forum ,lol ,
Lets take a small example
I dont have to be an actor to say that salman khan is a bad actor,
You cant tell me that I cant call his acting bad just because his movie made millions and he tried his best.

 

[Immanuel]

Our SF guys are not illiterate,They can shoot for sure, I never heard someone say that our sf dont know how to wear helmet lol, Many dont wear gloves ,they should because it provides better grip and dexterity but since standard issue are knuckle gloves,I cant blame them ,Non integrated kneepads are useless unless you are in rigid terrain, which we are , but elbow pads are super uncomfortable for climbing or going prone , most guys dont wear pads in real ops ,Well our command and structure is literally shit and its a defence forum, what you want us to do ?

Your critiques are all valid and you did it the right way (but you obviously haven't read some posts carefully by some who have said those exact same things). Our command structure is shit as per your feeling but again command and structure is not just a drawing on a piece of paper. In a large military like ours with so many different stakeholders, things take time.

 

[Immanuel]

Well you have to agree on one thing Belgian army camo is shitty on a whole other level

Not this one though, please, the Belgians are blessed by Gucci gang.

 

[shouryav105]

. In a large military like ours with so many different stakeholders, things take time.

How much time?
This much ?

 

[Immanuel]

So u agree airborne and sf have small skill gap
That show how incompetent our establishment is regarding sof
This ends the point

Yes, there's a small skill gap but this doesn't mean they can't be converted with additional training. You do realize, we have been doing this since the start. 2, 3, 4, 21 are all converted over time. Only 9, 10, 11 were raised as SF units. 12 was raised from 23rd Rajputana Rifles.

Para SF units, Nicknames and their roles - All You Need To Know - DDE (defencedirecteducation.com)

 

[Waanar]

Yes, there's a small skill gap but this doesn't mean they can't be converted with additional training. You do realize, we have been doing this since the start. 2, 3, 4, 21 are all converted over time. Only 9, 10, 11 were raised as SF units. 12 was raised from 23rd Rajputana Rifles.

Para SF units, Nicknames and their roles - All You Need To Know - DDE (defencedirecteducation.com)

Firstly, the SF units converted in the 90s took years in transit. Not months.

Secondly, you've already agreed to the fact that infantry and SF don't have that big of a skill gap so what else is there to add?
The only reason you're arguing here is because you want to.

Since our words are piss drops to you (and man, you're obsessed with piss), perhaps you should read what General PC Katoch (Retd.) had to say about the conversions undertaken in the late 90s-

Whither Special Forces? - Indian Defence Review

While discussing a monogram on Special Forces at a prominent Think Tank in New Delhi last month (December 2013), one of the discussants (a former Brigadier) opined that the “entire Parachute Regiment should form part of the

www.indiandefencereview.com

Perhaps he doesn't know anything either.

 

[Immanuel]

And that, my piss loving fellow, is the problem.
When, in the past, paratroopers were converted to SF, the original SF units expressed dismay and disgust at the move because it was diluting the elite nature and culture of the Paras.

This was in 1999, when 2nd Para was converted. It took YEARS before they moved onto 3rd and 4th. The rapidity at which they're tagging all paratrooper units (mere fucking months) as SF today is incomprehensible, in a time when warfare is far more complex than the 90s.


It's in the nature of Indians (and Belgians, apparently) to disregard any lesson not written by their own blood.

Pay it later down the line like Kargil and then wallow in guilt (or be an absolute slut of a man and override guilt with boisterous claims to hide your insecurity like the Pakistanis do).

<removed>

Only time will tell, sure original SF expressed dismay at the move but is there any clear evidence of diluting the elite nature of SF? I mean a quantifiable dilution based on various parameters that can be proven.

Also why is warfare more complex today? Today's SF by standard, drive up, pull up a drone, kamikazi that shit and run away. What's more complex? learning to fly a drone (which mostly autopilots itself or to scale upto 21000 ft glacier from HAWS base camp).

With the Russia/Ukr war, one thing is clear this whole drop from the sky, fast roping, HaLO or HAHO kind of missions with peer enemies is old shit, those aircraft, helos would be shot down before they get to where they're going.

Coming to the Indian contexts, I don't see India adapting a Western style to Special Forcing, probably a more Russian style. I think they realize that land grabs like one in Ukr are the most likely threats from Pak or China and in both cases, they probably realize they need shit tons of artillery first and foremost, supporting elements and more soldiers able to perform SOF roles specially if this descends into a threesome.

 

[Love Charger]

Oye comrades no religious slanders please

 

[OFBkaRakhwala]

Mods sote rehte hai bas agar thread clean nhi kia to mai awaaz uthaunga

 

[vidhwanshak]

Lt Gen Vijay Oberai talks ex VCOAS writes about the sorry state of elite forces of Army and how they are used as "super-infantry".
Must read for the guys who think Sab changa si I the forces

https://www.claws.in/static/IB7_Special-Forces-Revamp-and-Restructure.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjRltrW75v5AhWQHrcAHYcjCV44FBAWegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw1JjMvGsYvtrivAMKK9Qy3p

 

[vidhwanshak]

 

[JConline]

Lt Gen Vijay Oberai talks ex VCOAS writes about the sorry state of elite forces of Army and how they are used as "super-infantry".
Must read for the guys who think Sab changa si I the forces

https://www.claws.in/static/IB7_Special-Forces-Revamp-and-Restructure.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjRltrW75v5AhWQHrcAHYcjCV44FBAWegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw1JjMvGsYvtrivAMKK9Qy3p

Ab bolo kisko kya bolna hai. Army ka ex VCOAS bol raha hai aur humlog observe kare toh hum chutiye.
"Frustrated? Have more sex"
Obviously you ain't getting any