Indian Special Forces (archived)

Status
Not open for further replies.

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
4,154
Likes
17,937
Country flag
Then you do not understand abcd of procurement...
In the Armed Forces even eggs are procured by a MoD babus by tendering . bidding and L1 procedures wherein he can play the vital part ...

Everyone controls the Army ..Army controls nothing.... MES, DES. CDA, DODP. DoD. DRDO. OFB, DPSUs. Railways. Air India, - all of them have a say but not the Defence Forces..

Co of a battalion can sanction even one paisa increase in any one's emoluments or purchase items not provided for in SR and FR.
Do you?

Do you know the role of Ordnance in aquiring rations and ASC in distribution?

Do you know about the incident of Gen VK Singh and bribe being offered to him to procure trucks at doube cost?
 
Last edited:

MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00

VICTORIOUM AUT MORS
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Messages
3,105
Likes
10,274
I would say something. But anti national bolne wale kaafi hai.
All I would say is, don't underestimate a foe that has equivalent or more war fighting experience.
I wouldn’t call you a Anti-National. You can say what you have to say bro. I won’t judge you. It’s your opinion.
 

Tuco

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
2,857
Likes
12,132
Country flag
If it can connect with UGV/UAS it will be useful in so many ways.
 

Immanuel

Senior Member
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
3,574
Likes
7,519
Country flag
Wait till SSG catches up with European/American units. That will light up a fire under our arses
Catching up with US/EU units won't do a damn thing. They already have better operator kit on average but all that won't help because people seem to forget, the first and most important weapon in the SF is the man himself. The rest are all tools, it's not the 4 eyes NVD or a SCAR that has to clear Probation. There are literally 4-5 SF units that have the training, the balls and madness to take on any mission handed to them and you can rest easy knowing Indian SF is in those top. US, Russia, Israel, India and UK are in that list. The rest in the west are over hyped, well kitted but against a well matched enemy, they will have their asses in fire.

When niggas put Grom, Nigerian SF and other third rate SF units against Indian SF, one just has to laugh about it. Heck most Ghataks out perform most of these niggas any day and have far more real COIN/combat experience.

Command structure, kit, vehicles etc. can always improve (there is no end to it) and MOD and the services should see to it but those who claim that Indian SF are incapable or some bush wacking Nigerian or Polish SF can somehow perform better are blatant liars who can't see context, spend far too much time lusting on YouTube videos of how them other niggas operate. All the while these niggas don't know the context in which Indian SF operate and I wager that IA and the mil establishment has far more & countless success stories in COIN/ Anti Terror ops, Direct action, unconventional warfare etc. The same negros can't put two words together when one recalls tactical plan and execution of well known raids like Myanmar and POK strikes all of which involved 90% of modern tech used by the Deltas and ST6 and others. Not to mention the kills. Since the early 2000s some 34K militants have been killed and 100% of them did not die from reluctant SF operators dropping a PGM from fighter aircraft. 20 years on, the Western strategies have failed. Syria is a wasteland, same in Afghan.

There are several videos of Paki posts being obliterated at point blank by talented units often in broad day light. Niggas act like Kargil didn't happen, as if Ghataks, regular infantry often poorly equipped and kitted out, braved the most treacherous of odds to meet/greet the enemy. At the onset of that war, it was expected we'd loose around 10 for every 1 we lost, IA is literally the only army to turn the entire math around. The Pukis lost 10 for every 1 we lost.

Sure it's nice to make things easier for SF, nice shinny boots, fancy rifles, sights, etc and I am still waiting for these to fructify and slowly but surely they will happen. The SF are evolving and it is high time but changes should be for the better and not all changes are necessarily better. IA is slow but people forget it's a vast institution and consensus is built over time from the ground up. Heck look at the endless debate on calibre for a Rifle. A service that has debates within itself, arrives on decisions based on consensus & carefully consider the changes is better off on the long run.
 

MuzzleVelocity

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2016
Messages
293
Likes
1,033
Catching up with US/EU units won't do a damn thing. They already have better operator kit on average but all that won't help because people seem to forget, the first and most important weapon in the SF is the man himself. The rest are all tools, it's not the 4 eyes NVD or a SCAR that has to clear Probation. There are literally 4-5 SF units that have the training, the balls and madness to take on any mission handed to them and you can rest easy knowing Indian SF is in those top. US, Russia, Israel, India and UK are in that list. The rest in the west are over hyped, well kitted but against a well matched enemy, they will have their asses in fire.

When niggas put Grom, Nigerian SF and other third rate SF units against Indian SF, one just has to laugh about it. Heck most Ghataks out perform most of these niggas any day and have far more real COIN/combat experience.

Command structure, kit, vehicles etc. can always improve (there is no end to it) and MOD and the services should see to it but those who claim that Indian SF are incapable or some bush wacking Nigerian or Polish SF can somehow perform better are blatant liars who can't see context, spend far too much time lusting on YouTube videos of how them other niggas operate. All the while these niggas don't know the context in which Indian SF operate and I wager that IA and the mil establishment has far more & countless success stories in COIN/ Anti Terror ops, Direct action, unconventional warfare etc. The same negros can't put two words together when one recalls tactical plan and execution of well known raids like Myanmar and POK strikes all of which involved 90% of modern tech used by the Deltas and ST6 and others. Not to mention the kills. Since the early 2000s some 34K militants have been killed and 100% of them did not die from reluctant SF operators dropping a PGM from fighter aircraft. 20 years on, the Western strategies have failed. Syria is a wasteland, same in Afghan.

There are several videos of Paki posts being obliterated at point blank by talented units often in broad day light. Niggas act like Kargil didn't happen, as if Ghataks, regular infantry often poorly equipped and kitted out, braved the most treacherous of odds to meet/greet the enemy. At the onset of that war, it was expected we'd loose around 10 for every 1 we lost, IA is literally the only army to turn the entire math around. The Pukis lost 10 for every 1 we lost.

Sure it's nice to make things easier for SF, nice shinny boots, fancy rifles, sights, etc and I am still waiting for these to fructify and slowly but surely they will happen. The SF are evolving and it is high time but changes should be for the better and not all changes are necessarily better. IA is slow but people forget it's a vast institution and consensus is built over time from the ground up. Heck look at the endless debate on calibre for a Rifle. A service that has debates within itself, arrives on decisions based on consensus & carefully consider the changes is better off on the long run.

Just an analogy.
But just because Virat Kohli is a great batsman, you wouldn't send him out to play with a hat on and a bat from the 1980s. Hope that answers the point.
 

cyclops

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2016
Messages
1,331
Likes
5,813
Country flag
Sigh.

this is all about MINDSET. I’ll say it again, India doesn’t have any special forces. It has commandos and special mission units (MARCOs and Garuds) but it doesn’t have small unit force multipliers that can be used as strategic assets. Commandos are NOT SF, commandos are like the raiders of WW2, what SF are is an entirely different kettle of fish. They operate in austere environments for months at a time often behind enemy lines and are used as a substitute for much larger conventional military footprints and are highly specialist military experts.

I’ve been listening to a LOT of retired USN SEALS in 2-3hr podcasts (Mike Ritland and Jocko) and the mindset these guys have is just another league to what you hear any Indian ‘SF’ described as.

I would love to know what’s going on inside AFSOD and what exactly they are building up. The way I see it from that experiment India needs to raise a true tier-1 military SF unit along the lines of SAS or SFOD-Delta/CAG ( which is modelled on SAS). What many don’t understand about SAS is that they are not really British Army SF, they are almost a distinct branch, they recruit entirely separately from the rest of the british army, anyone from any military unit (even the navy and airforce) can apply to join SAS, they have all the specialisms in-house; they have a boat troop, they have a squadron for domestic CT fulltime. Yes PARA (SF) will day they are modelled on SAS but aside from the same badge there’s almost no similarity (yeah they have combat divers).

AFSOD needs to spin out a highly elite unit of max 200 operators with a similar amount of support staff, new HQ (Agra would make sense because of transport links but it needs to be standalone and away from any other military location. Create their own everything from scratch, only make what is relevant today and have none of this fawning for ‘tradition’. Give them their own budget (obviously), have the unit be headed by a Lt Gen from a SF background who reports directly to the CDS and CDS alone. Give them their own specialised airwing, lease the aircraft if needed. These forces need to be agile.

I may as well be wishing for a cure to cancer (seems more likely frankly) but this is how I’d do it, I don’t see the traditional Indian mil SFs ever stepping up to be the kind of world class forces the rest of the world has

Watch this:


units from(as far as I can tell) US,Canada, Germany, France, NZ, Australia and Poland. Can we see Indian SF of today getting to even 50% of this standard in the next 10 years? I don’t see it, not when Indian military ‘SF’ is exercising with conventional units during Multi and bilateral engagements. MARCOs train with british Royal Marines, Russian marines and USN VBSS teams. None of which are SF similarly Garuds train with RAF regiment (force protection guys) and PARA (SF) train with regular US infantry. This says what other countries think of Indian SF and also what Indian military leadership thinks about Indian SFs. Tier 1 only interacts with tier 1, Delta have close links with SAS, Polish GROM and some Eastern European SFs.
Something like this...

 
Last edited:

Tactical Doge

𝕱𝖔𝖔𝖑𝖘 𝖗𝖚𝖘𝖍 𝖆𝖓𝖉 𝖆𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑𝖘 𝖋𝖊𝖆𝖗
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2019
Messages
9,927
Likes
60,349
Country flag
Catching up with US/EU units won't do a damn thing. They already have better operator kit on average but all that won't help because people seem to forget, the first and most important weapon in the SF is the man himself. The rest are all tools, it's not the 4 eyes NVD or a SCAR that has to clear Probation. There are literally 4-5 SF units that have the training, the balls and madness to take on any mission handed to them and you can rest easy knowing Indian SF is in those top. US, Russia, Israel, India and UK are in that list. The rest in the west are over hyped, well kitted but against a well matched enemy, they will have their asses in fire.

When niggas put Grom, Nigerian SF and other third rate SF units against Indian SF, one just has to laugh about it. Heck most Ghataks out perform most of these niggas any day and have far more real COIN/combat experience.

Command structure, kit, vehicles etc. can always improve (there is no end to it) and MOD and the services should see to it but those who claim that Indian SF are incapable or some bush wacking Nigerian or Polish SF can somehow perform better are blatant liars who can't see context, spend far too much time lusting on YouTube videos of how them other niggas operate. All the while these niggas don't know the context in which Indian SF operate and I wager that IA and the mil establishment has far more & countless success stories in COIN/ Anti Terror ops, Direct action, unconventional warfare etc. The same negros can't put two words together when one recalls tactical plan and execution of well known raids like Myanmar and POK strikes all of which involved 90% of modern tech used by the Deltas and ST6 and others. Not to mention the kills. Since the early 2000s some 34K militants have been killed and 100% of them did not die from reluctant SF operators dropping a PGM from fighter aircraft. 20 years on, the Western strategies have failed. Syria is a wasteland, same in Afghan.

There are several videos of Paki posts being obliterated at point blank by talented units often in broad day light. Niggas act like Kargil didn't happen, as if Ghataks, regular infantry often poorly equipped and kitted out, braved the most treacherous of odds to meet/greet the enemy. At the onset of that war, it was expected we'd loose around 10 for every 1 we lost, IA is literally the only army to turn the entire math around. The Pukis lost 10 for every 1 we lost.

Sure it's nice to make things easier for SF, nice shinny boots, fancy rifles, sights, etc and I am still waiting for these to fructify and slowly but surely they will happen. The SF are evolving and it is high time but changes should be for the better and not all changes are necessarily better. IA is slow but people forget it's a vast institution and consensus is built over time from the ground up. Heck look at the endless debate on calibre for a Rifle. A service that has debates within itself, arrives on decisions based on consensus & carefully consider the changes is better off on the long run.
Well put brother
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

New threads

Articles

Top