Indian Special Forces (archived)

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

What additional capability did sf bring other than they that would be more accurate ? Honestly any IA soldier who has experience in COIN in Kashmir could have done it.

But on the other hand if you think about it. With the intell before hand there is no way SF wouldn't be put in alert to take care of any unknowns.

And honestly once on alert, if those boys even hear about the potential for a firefight there is no way they wouldn't wiggle there way and lead the damn thing.

what about a classic undercover op disguised as reds and catch them alive..a true sf op

But thats expecting too much.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

And honestly once on alert, if those boys even hear about the potential for a firefight there is no way they wouldn't wiggle there way and lead the damn thing.

The problem is SF doesnt know what SF is supposed to do.

Thatswhy they are drooling like wolves when they see any chance to get a kill in kashmir BE IT ANY OP.

Which shouldnt be the case.

 

[rkhanna]

what about a classic undercover op disguised as reds and catch them alive..a true sf op

But thats expecting too much.

I thought of that too. If the overarching aim was to capture one alive you would ahve to get very creative.

But couple of factors
1. Urgency of the information of the intel recieved
2. If intell was limited or vague. And timeframe small. Can limit options of creativity
3. Or a UC got them the intel to begin with

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

The present DGMO, who is an officer from 9 Para SF and the colonel of the Parachute regiment, why doesn't he convey it to the cheifs and RMO that special Forces are not to be used in every other ops in the valley. They sould be used like other countries use their Tier 1 SF.

 

[EternalNxg]

The present DGMO, who is an officer from 9 Para SF and the colonel of the Parachute regiment, why doesn't he convey it to the cheifs and RMO that special Forces are not to be used in every other ops in the valley. They sould be used like other countries use their Tier 1 SF.

He must've said it. But his suggestion might have not been taken into consideration.
I think we need to let the SF do wat they please, or wat they are told to.

 

[rkhanna]

The present DGMO, who is an officer from 9 Para SF and the colonel of the Parachute regiment, why doesn't he convey it to the cheifs and RMO that special Forces are not to be used in every other ops in the valley. They sould be used like other countries use their Tier 1 SF.

If para become Tier 1 who will do Tier 2 duty?

 

[EternalNxg]

If para become Tier 1 who will do Tier 2 duty?

Ok hear me out
Black= special group, SFF
Tier 1= AFSOD
Tier 2= PARA, MARCOS, GARUD.
INTERNAL (NATIONAL GUARD)= NSG, State police commandos.
Tier 3= ghatak, RR
Transport= AAC army aviation corps ( I heard they make the best pilots.)

 

[rkhanna]

Ok hear me out
Black= special group, SFF
Tier 1= AFSOD
Tier 2= PARA, MARCOS, GARUD.
INTERNAL (NATIONAL GUARD)= NSG, State police commandos.
Tier 3= ghatak, RR
Transport= AAC army aviation corps ( I heard they make the best pilots.)

What the definition of their Tier Structure?

 

[EternalNxg]

What the definition of their Tier Structure?

Black= Covert operations on behalf of RAW
Tier 1= the most riskiest of operations, like behind enemy lines raids only.
Tier 2= everything SF related, like cross border raids and strikes and regular ops. (Not regular CI/CT duties)
Tier 3= regular stuff, shock troops, with lethal surprise element, carrying encounters etc.
Internal= internal anti terrorism affairs.

 

[ALBY]

Will 9 Para allow anyone else to be the so called Tier1.
Whats the point of calling SG or the so called AFSOD Tier-1 if they dont have permanent cadre and they are rotated every third year

 

[Phantom sierra]

IMO this tier structure will only work when AFSOD is established as a battle hardened and trusted organised and most importantly when our policy changes regarding sf deployments. Although a unit can't be called as tier 1 but won't 9 be assumed as the closest thing to it????

 

[Tupac slayer]

Black= Covert operations on behalf of RAW
Tier 1= the most riskiest of operations, like behind enemy lines raids only.
Tier 2= everything SF related, like cross border raids and strikes and regular ops. (Not regular CI/CT duties)
Tier 3= regular stuff, shock troops, with lethal surprise element, carrying encounters etc.
Internal= internal anti terrorism affairs.

Tier 3 can train with army on conventional warfare rather than hunting terrorists. Counter Terror / Counter Insurgency should be handled by BSF/CRPF/Kashmir police.

Army should concentrate on conventional warfare.

 

[Killbot]

Ok hear me out
Black= special group, SFF
Tier 1= AFSOD
Tier 2= PARA, MARCOS, GARUD.
INTERNAL (NATIONAL GUARD)= NSG, State police commandos.
Tier 3= ghatak, RR
Transport= AAC army aviation corps ( I heard they make the best pilots.)

Black= We know of SG, so far. And I wouldn't call it an SOF unit. Black ops should be done by so called 'Tier 1' unit. SG should be gathering intelligence. Like @rkhanna has said before, they alone do what Military intelligence support, special mission unit and intelligence gathering unit should be doing. Like every other unit in India, they don't have their roles set in stone.
Also, one wouldn't know anything about other Black units.


Tier 1= none that we know of.


Tier 2= Para, Marcos, Garud and AFSOD. Their roles are overlapping.

'Tier 3' is not a thing. But if you mean specialised infantry, then we have SFF, Para (Air) and Ghataks, all for different roles. RR could also be considered such an organization. But they aren't a 'unit' per se.

 

[India Super Power]

Ok hear me out
Black= special group, SFF
Tier 1= AFSOD
Tier 2= PARA, MARCOS, GARUD.
INTERNAL (NATIONAL GUARD)= NSG, State police commandos.
Tier 3= ghatak, RR
Transport= AAC army aviation corps ( I heard they make the best pilots.)

I think para,marcos,garud come under afsod right, they must be tier 1.
If I am wrong pls correct

 

[Killbot]

I think para,marcos,garud come under afsod right, they must be tier 1.
If I am wrong pls correct

See above post..

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

If para become Tier 1 who will do Tier 2 duty?

Garuds can be used as tier 2, cause they mostly operate in JK and are responsible for protection of some key airbases.
And I never said use only para as tier 1, I just mentioned that the DGMO is from 9 para SF. Of all the SF in India, 9 para sf is known as one of the most elite.

 

[Killbot]

Garuds can be used as tier 2, cause they mostly operate in JK and are responsible for protection of some key airbases.
And I never said use only para as tier 1, I just mentioned that the DGMO is from 9 para SF. Of all the SF in India, 9 para sf is known as one of the most elite.

All para battalions, MARCOS and garuds have been trained for assymetric warfare in their respective theaters.

No one has been trained for intel gathering, direct action deep behind enemy lines or what a 'tier 1' unit is supposed to do. And be it 9 Para, 1 Para, 4 Para or whoever, their role is the same. They have the battalion structure for administration purposes only.

 

[Killbot]

All para battalions, MARCOS and garuds have been trained for assymetric warfare in their respective theaters.

No one has been trained for intel gathering, direct action deep behind enemy lines or what a 'tier 1' unit is supposed to do. And be it 9 Para, 1 Para, 4 Para or whoever, their role is the same. They have the battalion structure for administration purposes only.

BTW, this tier 1 and 2 thing isn't some sort of dick size contest. It is a about their respective *roles*. Both have different roles and have nothing to do with each. They are both necessary.

Tier 2 is assymetric warfare unit. Which means they operate alongside local forces in contested areas or sometimes fight lower value threats in situations that infantry or other units cannot deal with. And they operate in a single area for extended periods of time.

Tier 1 units are more into short duration high intensity raids behind enemy lines to capture or kill HVTs. And they are a military HUMINT organization(s). Whatever they do would have far reaching implications in foreign policy, military strategy and all those other complicated phrases us mere mortals have nothing to do with.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

All para battalions, MARCOS and garuds have been trained for assymetric warfare in their respective theaters.

No one has been trained for intel gathering, direct action deep behind enemy lines or what a 'tier 1' unit is supposed to do. And be it 9 Para, 1 Para, 4 Para or whoever, their role is the same. They have the battalion structure for administration purposes only.

What do you mean by no one is trained for intel gathering, then what do the special forces do by dressing up like jihadis, in POK.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

All para battalions, MARCOS and garuds have been trained for assymetric warfare in their respective theaters.

No one has been trained for intel gathering, direct action deep behind enemy lines or what a 'tier 1' unit is supposed to do. And be it 9 Para, 1 Para, 4 Para or whoever, their role is the same. They have the battalion structure for administration purposes only.

Regarding direct action, are they given the authority to conduct direct action behind enemy lines? I don't think they would mind if they are given the opportunity to plan and execute such operations.
When they have been given the opportunity to conduct ops behind enemy lines, they have done it right since 1965, haji pir pass.
Operating in enemy territory isn't something which a ground commander can decide, the order has to come from Delhi. So the point was the DGMO being an SF should have advised the leadership to make a proper structure of the SF.
Now if the SF are happy (as someone mentioned above) with the domain they are operating in, then there is no point in discussing I guess. Cause they would know what's best.