Indian Special Forces (archived)

[Killbot]

Then your definition of fairly well equipped is fucked up. No they (Para) don't use dual tube NVG.. Show me one picture of them wearing one.. All USSOCOM personnel either wear dual or quad tubes. Monocular are what US Army infantry use. Those arm and knee pads are atrocious on SFs. Everyone knows they use those earphones, which become useless when bullets start flying, refer above posts. That sorry excuse of a plate carrier is neither ergonomic nor lightweight.. As we have discussed tome and time again, Tavors are not meant for SF use, and they need Short barrel Rifles (M4 is essentially a full length). All they have are Galil SARs, and they need to be upgraded. Also, they have all sorts of camo, you say... WHY THE FUCK DO THEY NEED ALL THAT BS?! THEY NEED ONE, SINGLE TYPE TO BE STANDARDISED (Multicam)..
Even RR folks are ready to go in 10 mind notice, so this 'don't have time to gear up argument falls apart'; and we've been over this 'ThEy dOn'T usE AlL THrIr eQuIpmEnT' argument. They wear all they have to high risk missions (which they shouldn't be doing on the first place), and all they have is crap for a force of their role and caliber.
Also fuck $3500 SCARs. They'd do much better with $600 plate carriers, $500 COMTACS, and $1500 AR15 style rifle. Add a good radio ($500), rifle optics ($500ish EOTech EXPS 2), magnifier ($300...??), and suppressor ($1000). And foregrip and IR laser device: $400ish.
TOTAL COST: $5300
SCAR-L with just suppressor, optic, IR device and Foregrip is ~$5400. Minus COMTACS, PC and Radio. Which are more important than the gun.

Its harsh, but its reality.

Continued:
Tier 1 and Tier 2 are defined by role not equipment. A Delta guy will have the same geat for a DA raid as a Ranger for the same.. And we are comparing them to Russkies in the first place..

 

[vampyrbladez]

@abingdonboy given how MARCOS always have the best gear I would reckon this is the current state of Indian Special Forces around 2020 :

 

[JBH22]

@abingdonboy given how MARCOS always have the best gear I would reckon this is the current state of Indian Special Forces around 2020 :

Things are improving don't forget they are trying to leapfrog one decade of neglect under UPA.
The special forces command will give India some edge in qualitative.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Things are improving don't forget they are trying to leapfrog one decade of neglect under UPA.
The special forces command will give India some edge in qualitative.

They are getting SCARs and MK48s. Maybe a few Sig 716i as well.

I would say we have made progress but there is more that needs to be done. It is good that India is taking Special Forces seriously now.

 

[Killbot]

@abingdonboy given how MARCOS always have the best gear I would reckon this is the current state of Indian Special Forces around 2020 :

Pretty bad... Those Plate carriers are what Green Berets use to use in 2005

Even those were slightly better.. Notice how the guy has Dual Tube NODS... And COMTACS..
Thats right start bawling..
As @vampyrbladez said, we are improving, but as of 2020 situation is shit. And SCARs haven't been ordered. Hasn't got DAC clearance since 2017.

 

[Vishalreddy3]

Then your definition of fairly well equipped is fucked up. No they (Para) don't use dual tube NVG.. Show me one picture of them wearing one.. All USSOCOM personnel either wear dual or quad tubes. Monocular are what US Army infantry use. Those arm and knee pads are atrocious on SFs. Everyone knows they use those earphones, which become useless when bullets start flying, refer above posts. That sorry excuse of a plate carrier is neither ergonomic nor lightweight.. As we have discussed tome and time again, Tavors are not meant for SF use, and they need Short barrel Rifles (M4 is essentially a full length). All they have are Galil SARs, and they need to be upgraded. Also, they have all sorts of camo, you say... WHY THE FUCK DO THEY NEED ALL THAT BS?! THEY NEED ONE, SINGLE TYPE TO BE STANDARDISED (Multicam)..
Even RR folks are ready to go in 10 mind notice, so this 'don't have time to gear up argument falls apart'; and we've been over this 'ThEy dOn'T usE AlL THrIr eQuIpmEnT' argument. They wear all they have to high risk missions (which they shouldn't be doing on the first place), and all they have is crap for a force of their role and caliber.
Also fuck $3500 SCARs. They'd do much better with $600 plate carriers, $500 COMTACS, and $1500 AR15 style rifle. Add a good radio ($500), rifle optics ($500ish EOTech EXPS 2), magnifier ($300...??), and suppressor ($1000). And foregrip and IR laser device: $400ish.
TOTAL COST: $5300
SCAR-L with just suppressor, optic, IR device and Foregrip is ~$5400. Minus COMTACS, PC and Radio. Which are more important than the gun.

Its harsh, but its reality.

Babu be like :- yeh kya hai?? Binoculars?? Aur woh green light kyu chal raha hai, woh green light, very very bad for our SF, they need the best.
Reporter:- what best sir??
Babu:- Rayban sunglasses with green lens, there I saved money and take extra commission..

 

[AZTEC]

Then your definition of fairly well equipped is fucked up. No they (Para) don't use dual tube NVG..

I have proven (using simple OSINT) that the NVG used in the 2016 Surgical Strikes were either 2-tube/2-sensor or 4-tube.

TBH, my OSINT analysis isn’t conclusive, but it’s much more than just anecdotal evidence.

Please see these posts.

A fresh news report says that the Indian startup Tonbo supplied the helmet-mounted NVGs used in the 2016 Surgical Strike.

This Indian startup is helping the army keep the borders safe from Chinese incursions

Tonbo Imaging, based in Bengaluru, develops surveillance systems to help soldiers defend against enemy incursions and airforce carry out covert reconnaissance missions.

www.moneycontrol.com

This is significant because, AFAIK, Tonbo doesn’t make the classic-styled single-tube helmet-mounted NVG, which means that the NVGs used in the 2016 Surgical Strikes were either 2-tube/2-sensor or 4-tube.

The following are the helmet-mounted NVGs made by Tonbo as per their website:
View attachment 61009

Secondly, be civil and don’t use slang language. If your reasoning is strong enough, you can make everybody listen without having to say “f**ked up”.

 

[ArgonPrime]

Secondly, be civil and don’t use slang language. If your reasoning is strong enough, you can make everybody listen without having to say “f**ked up”.

Dude, give it a rest and grow a skin while you're at it.

 

[AZTEC]

Dude, give it a rest and grow a skin while you're at it.

Civility is one of the hallmarks of a good argument. Barking like dogs doesn’t reinforce ones argument; instead, it degrades it.

A good argument is the one which stays within the top three levels of Graham’s hierarchy of disagreement, shown below.

 

[Killbot]

I have proven (using simple OSINT) that the NVG used in the 2016 Surgical Strikes were either 2-tube/2-sensor or 4-tube.

TBH, my OSINT analysis isn’t conclusive, but it’s much more than just anecdotal evidence.

Please see these posts.



Secondly, be civil and don’t use slang language. If your reasoning is strong enough, you can make everybody listen without having to say “f**ked up”.

Show me some actual conclusive evidence and then we'll talk. Did Tonbo even make BNVDs in 2016? Highly unlikely. Quad tube ones were unveiled in DEFEXPO 2020.

 

[Killbot]

Civility is one of the hallmarks of a good argument. Barking like dogs doesn’t reinforce ones argument; instead, it degrades it.

A good argument is the one which stays within the top three levels of Graham’s hierarchy of disagreement, shown below.
View attachment 63178

Yeah if you cannot stomach it you are free to use the ignore button.

 

[abingdonboy]

View attachment 63153View attachment 63154View attachment 63155View attachment 63156
Look guys, the way I see it, the Para SF guys are fairly well equipped. Definitely not as well equipped as the Western SOF but dollar for rupee, it's an obvious, unfair comparison. Right now, with all the different weapons platforms and gear pouring in as batches, there's a certain amount of in consistency but the Para SF operator of the near future will be homogeneously armed with the following gear and weaponry, (already in use by them, not uniformly)
High Ballistic Helmets with in ear Comms headsets connected to a radioset
Ergonomic plate carriers with molle system of attachment
All kinds of varied camo with knee and ankle pads
Thermal or single tube night vision headsets
Tavor/M4/decked out AK

And still we haven't taken into consideration the latest incoming procurements of SCARS and Mk 48 LMGs.

Sure, people are shouting about BNVDs and Integrated Ear Pro but hear me out. Even the US Army Special Forces/ Rangers haven't completely moved over to double tube. They use a mix of double tube and single tube NVGs and you simply can't compare Tier 1 guys of the US with Para SF guys cause Para SF is not a Tier 1 establishment in India. It's more geared towards a Tier 2 structure. And about integrated ear pro, that would be the only thing not in use but with the way the modernisation is working, I'm not sure it won't.
Also, you simply can't say that what the guys are seen using in Kashmir is the full kit. Kashmir is an AO where you respond in a moment's notice. And it being a domestic AO, there's a certain amount of lax in the operators. For precision operations, I'm a 100% sure, they don't just put on the bare minimum. Because then they have the time to gear up, head to toe.

You can only judge based on what the AVERAGE operator has not what one team had one time.The absolute lack of uniformity is the issue, whilst some guys have some more modern kit the very next unit/team has the same pathetic load out (patka, FLC etc)

@abingdonboy given how MARCOS always have the best gear I would reckon this is the current state of Indian Special Forces around 2020 :

Wishful thinking buddy, as I've said above there's no uniformity or standardisation, one unit has combat trousers with integrated knee pads and high cuts, another has ACHs with helmet mounted cams but there's no way of telling what the general state of the unit is and who is spending their discretionary funding better

Dude, give it a rest and grow a skin while you're at it.

Yeah if you cannot stomach it you are free to use the ignore button.

Come on guys, we are all here to share knowledge on topics we have common interest in, there's absolutely zero need to get petty and make this a toxic environment.

Keep it civil and then we can all enjoy our discussions and learn from one another, we are here to learn and grow not abuse each other.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

SG in Anantnag

From Anantnag encounter today where one Paki IED expert was neutralized. Is that a Special Forces soldier in the back? @Unknowncommando 2

 

[abingdonboy]

SG in Anantnag
View attachment 63202

Any details about the mission? Why would SG be on this particular op? They only get involved in the HVTs, they aren't able to be called in by local commanders like the SF teams in JK

 

[Mikel]

Any details about the mission? Why would SG be on this particular op? They only get involved in the HVTs, they aren't able to be called in by local commanders like the SF teams in JK

There was a HVT I think, Ashraf Molvi. A foreign IED terrorist was killed, Molvi probably escaped

EDIT: Molvi is deputy chief of Hizbul just FYI

 

[apoorv465]

SG in Anantnag
View attachment 63202

Do you have more pictures?

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

Any details about the mission? Why would SG be on this particular op? They only get involved in the HVTs, they aren't able to be called in by local commanders like the SF teams in JK

As far as I know hey show up only if they are after that HVT since long. Their own target with totally independent op & commands. Other forces like 19RR & 164Bn CRPF are regionally deployed forces who supported them. And you are right about local commanders that SG can't be called like SFs.

Some links I found regarding this op.

Today they killed an HVT Paki IED Expert just like they did in 2017.
Their last known op from the valley was on 21/11/2017 Magam, Handwara
It was also an op involving HVTs. They killed 3 Paki LET Jihaadis that day who infiltrated through kupwara few days back. It was a major op as quoted by senior JKP officers.

On the same day in another op involving 23 PARA & 21 RAJRIF along Kupwara LOC an Army Jawan was KIA where LET Jihaadis tried to infiltrate in which LET Commander Saifullah went to receive those infiltrators. Now whether he is the same Saifullah (Also a Paki LET Commander) who was killed 5 days ago in Srinagar or not, I am not so sure.

Interestingly 3 days before this Handwara op 6 Paki LET terrorists (Including Nephew of Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi) were killed in in Hajin, Bandipora involving IAF Garud commando Jyoti Prakash Nirala who was KIA in the op for which he received Ashoka Chakra posthumously.
Total bloodbath that week.

Pictures from Magam Encounter, Handwara 21/11/2017

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

Do you have more pictures?

Searching. Only two as of now.

 

[ManhattanProject]

Russian SF have been using ARs and Glocks for a while now, I thought it was common knowledge at this point

its interesting seeing the whole squad using ARs.

 

[ManhattanProject]

SG in Anantnag
View attachment 63202

so rumours about SG having some mindblowing kit is untrue.