Indian Special Forces (archived)

[ManhattanProject]

That is a ballistic helmet used by US Army rangers!!

dont jump to conclusion, there is no significant evidence of it induction, we still se paras sf with patkas and 1960s helmets.
and if it does get inducted i wish they would have gone for a ballistic varient and not the bump helmet.

 

[Vishalreddy3]

That’s not a ballistic helmet but a non-ballistic FAST helmet.

It’s also used by Para SF, as seen in this image.
View attachment 63123
Photo Caption : Lt Gen CP Mohanty, Army Commander, Southern Command, visited Jodhpur Sub Area, Special Forces and other establishments at #Jodhpur and complimented them on their high operational and training standards.

Easiest way to distinguish Ops core ballistic and non ballistic, is that non ballistic have sweat holes on top.

 

[Vishalreddy3]

dont jump to conclusion, there is no significant evidence of it induction, we still se paras sf with patkas and 1960s helmets.
and if it does get inducted i wish they would have gone for a ballistic varient and not the bump helmet.

That helmet doesn't even belong to IA in the first place, plus I never said anything about Para SF using any helmets of any sort!

 

[abingdonboy]

That’s not a ballistic helmet but a non-ballistic FAST helmet.

It’s also used by Para SF, as seen in this image.
View attachment 63123
Photo Caption : Lt Gen CP Mohanty, Army Commander, Southern Command, visited Jodhpur Sub Area, Special Forces and other establishments at #Jodhpur and complimented them on their high operational and training standards.

I cannot think of a more useless thing for a military unit that doesn't use integrated over ear ear pro to have than a NON-BALLISTIC FAST helmet

 

[abingdonboy]

I don't think that's true...

We know the NSG has high-cuts


Without the ear pro to go with them their utility is substantially degraded though

You can see what the NSG's current default comns system is- in-ear headphone connected directly (or sometimes to a PTT switch on their chests) to a secure radio handset.


This works okay for close protection but for highly kinetic force like this where operators are constantly around loud explosions (breaches, flash bangs) and who fire 100s of rounds a week it's frankly unacceptable (for the operators' personal health) not to mention tactically insufficient (I don't imagine those in-ear earpieces work too effectively in loud environments, especially not in actual operations when you'd want them to work best).

 

[Killbot]

We know the NSG has high-cuts


Without the ear pro to go with them their utility is substantially degraded though


View attachment 63126



View attachment 63127



You can see what the NSG's current default comns system is- in-ear headphone connected directly (or sometimes to a PTT switch on their chests) to a secure radio handset.


This works okay for close protection but for highly kinetic force like this where operators are constantly around loud explosions (breaches, flash bangs) and who fire 100s of rounds a week it's frankly unacceptable not to mention tactically insufficient (I don't imagine those in-ear earpieces work too effectively in loud environments, especially not in actual operations when you'd want them to work best).

They were black in color. (NSG HCBHs) I deleted my post after I realized that it was a bump helmet..

Yeah, I dont think they can hear shit in an op, especially considering their adrenaline levels are going through the roof.

Interestingly, this is also one of the reasons why one must train to shoot with both eyes open; when your adrenaline levels are really high, your eyes suddenly open and pupils dilate, fucking up your aim if you had a closed eye. Because the brain tries to collect as much information as possible, and goes on overdrive to process it.

Do any Indian units train soldiers to shoot with both eyes open? If not then thats seriously stupid.. Though it may not be possible with iron sights. Thats why reflex sights are so important for CQB..

 

[Vishalreddy3]

It’s not ballistic according to original photo source. See this tweet.

I didn't see the sweat openings on top the helmet properly .. YES, that not a ballistic helmet

 

[Killbot]

Yeah, I dont think they can hear shit in an op, especially considering their adrenaline levels are going through the roof.

Interestingly, this is also one of the reasons why one must train to shoot with both eyes open; when your adrenaline levels are really high, your eyes suddenly open and pupils dilate, fucking up your aim if you had a closed eye. Because the brain tries to collect as much information as possible, and goes on overdrive to process it.

Do any Indian units train soldiers to shoot with both eyes open? If not then thats seriously stupid.. Though it may not be possible with iron sights. Thats why reflex sights are so important for CQB..

@rkhanna @abingdonboy

 

[abingdonboy]

Russian SSO using ar15s and glocks.

View attachment 62815

Damn these guys have all the toys of the top tier Western units literally from head to toe


Would be fascinating to learn how their transformation came about. Not many years back they were a standard Russian SF unit- tanks on legs with their heavy plate carriers, oversized helmets with face shields etc but they've gone full NATO in the recent past. Was it combat experience in Syria? Was it a specific decision made by their MoD?

 

[Killbot]

Damn these guys have all the toys of the top tier Western units literally from head to toe


Would be fascinating to learn how their transformation came about. Not many years back they were a standard Russian SF unit- tanks on legs with their heavy plate carriers, oversized helmets with face shields etc but they've gone full NATO in the recent past. Was it combat experience in Syria? Was it a specific decision made by their MoD?

Yes.. Based on experiences in Syria. It started with ad hoc piecemeal procurements, small units accessorizing their AKs, buying new plate carriers and stuff. Now they have gone full NATO.
To the point that they're smuggling HKs into Russia...

 

[abingdonboy]

@rkhanna @abingdonboy

I'm not sure about their current training but it seems to vary, some guys seem to have an eye closed, some seem to have both eyes open, I do think this the trend.

 

[Bhadra]

Here Army Generals mentally still not ready to give Regiment status to Capable Para SF's.
And govt talking about Theatre Command, JSoC type SoF command, cyber command. Damn !!
Govt should change the name as "Indian Ground Forces" rather than Indian Army.

Then tell me who is not on the ground? Even the Gods descend down to the ground do their bidding. Aircraft remain on the ground most of the time and the Navy goes hither thither in search of ground.... and here you think "ground" is a pejorative ??

 

[Vishalreddy3]

Happy 36th birthday NSG!!
View attachment 63026

Should have posted this instead of that..
Belgian melinois of NSG!!

 

[Bhadra]

Bro I am saying the Naga ghatak platoons could have done this opp. Or any of the Regs that train day in and day out for jungle operations and LRRP.

He just doesn't understand it.Indian SF is capable of much much more. In Sri Lanka they used to do 2-3 weeks ops in the jungle moving from village to village observing and reporting and then interdiction of LTTE in the jungle as and when they found them.

He thinks I am insulting the men because I called the Op a basic commando op executed to perfection.

Can you give a quote or cite instances or name SF unit or a place that did such jungle bashing in Sri Lanka?? Name a few places.

Insertion and extrication - Yes.
But what you are describing may not be.... that was left to PBI. Elite SF can not do that.

 

[apoorv465]

Damn these guys have all the toys of the top tier Western units literally from head to toe


Would be fascinating to learn how their transformation came about. Not many years back they were a standard Russian SF unit- tanks on legs with their heavy plate carriers, oversized helmets with face shields etc but they've gone full NATO in the recent past. Was it combat experience in Syria? Was it a specific decision made by their MoD?

They learned it from the Americans.

"
According to the Journal, Russian military chief Gen. Nikolai Makarov visited the headquarters of US Special Operations Command in 2012 for a meeting, intent on learning how Russia could build a special operations force similar to the United States'.

Makarov previously signed a framework of understanding with then-Navy Adm. Mike Mullen in 2009 that offered military-to military exchanges and operational events, orientation at the West Point military academy for Russian cadets, and sharing of ideas among both countries' combined arms academies.

At the time, US military officials were hopeful for the reestablishment of military to-military bonds with Russia. Four years later, however, that framework and sharing of information may come back to haunt them.

"From the helmets to the kit," the Russian special forces "look almost identical" to their US counterparts, a US military official told the Journal.In early 2014, Russian special forces infiltrated Ukraine's Crimea region and seized control after the pro-Russian government was ousted from power in Kiev. The heavily-armed men - which some nicknamed "little green men" - wore no identifying insignia and denied that they were Russian."

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[MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00]

Hey guys,
I have been following this thread since a long time now. I am really impressed with the level of discussions that goes in on here regarding the SF units particularly. So i thought this is the best place to announce what i am going to do. So me and my brother who happens to be in the SF (4 years of stint in SG) have formed a start up that focuses on designing and manufacturing combat apparels, tactical vests, plate carriers and other accessories for the Indian operator specifically. Thankfully my brother not only has the practical experience from the lush deep jungles of assam to the mountains of Himalayas but also a sound knowledge and awareness about the western products ranging from 'CRYE', 'warrior assault system', 'UF PRO' and pentagon tactical. He has used these products extensively in live ops in India and Africa but found that somehow most of these products are not 100 % suitable for Indian terrains and environment. Keeping that in mind me and my brother have struck a deal with a manufacturing unit to produce these products in limited quantity considering the prototypes and samples that we designed previously for the Indian operator was a hit with the marine commandos. They were satisfied and impressed that we produced the product of almost the same quality as that of our western counterparts for almost half the price. Unfortunately because of the CHINESE virus our plan came to a halt for a temporary period nevertheless we plan to provide our products in small quantity to various para sf units, garuds and marcos by mid next year. Various PARA SF units have already shown their interest in our products considering the credibility my brother has. I can't exactly reveal the products as of now as its still in baby stage never the less i will be sharing the pics and technical details of the products with you lot by starting next year for you guys to scrutinize and give your valuable feedbacks. My brother after almost 12 years of service in the SF will be taking a premature retirement by next year in order to focus on the start up named "GEARSMITH".
Regards
Abhinandan

That is excellent good luck to you and may God bless you in this endeavor. It would be cool if you can create a thread to showcase you guy’s amazing products.

 

[abingdonboy]

They learned it from the Americans.

"
According to the Journal, Russian military chief Gen. Nikolai Makarov visited the headquarters of US Special Operations Command in 2012 for a meeting, intent on learning how Russia could build a special operations force similar to the United States'.

Makarov previously signed a framework of understanding with then-Navy Adm. Mike Mullen in 2009 that offered military-to military exchanges and operational events, orientation at the West Point military academy for Russian cadets, and sharing of ideas among both countries' combined arms academies.

At the time, US military officials were hopeful for the reestablishment of military to-military bonds with Russia. Four years later, however, that framework and sharing of information may come back to haunt them.

"From the helmets to the kit," the Russian special forces "look almost identical" to their US counterparts, a US military official told the Journal.In early 2014, Russian special forces infiltrated Ukraine's Crimea region and seized control after the pro-Russian government was ousted from power in Kiev. The heavily-armed men - which some nicknamed "little green men" - wore no identifying insignia and denied that they were Russian."

Business News - Read Latest Startup, Tech, Markets, Finance, Science News - Business Insider India

Business News - Read Startup, Auto, Tech, Stock Market, Finance, Career, Education, Science, Health, Mobile, Crypto, Sustainability News. Business Insider India

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LMAO

So it was, as expected, a concerted effort and drawn from top units in the West.


Isn't it pathetic that India has FAR more access to these Western SFs than Russia would have but even to this day Indian SFs are in their miserable condition?


Annual/regular exercises with Green Berets, SEALs, GIGN, KSK, Royal Marines etc etc and still:

At some point one just have to accept they don't want to be the best

 

[GunDeGunday]

Russian SF have been using ARs and Glocks for a while now, I thought it was common knowledge at this point

 

[JConline]

Look guys, the way I see it, the Para SF guys are fairly well equipped. Definitely not as well equipped as the Western SOF but dollar for rupee, it's an obvious, unfair comparison. Right now, with all the different weapons platforms and gear pouring in as batches, there's a certain amount of in consistency but the Para SF operator of the near future will be homogeneously armed with the following gear and weaponry, (already in use by them, not uniformly)
High Ballistic Helmets with in ear Comms headsets connected to a radioset
Ergonomic plate carriers with molle system of attachment
All kinds of varied camo with knee and ankle pads
Thermal or single tube night vision headsets
Tavor/M4/decked out AK

And still we haven't taken into consideration the latest incoming procurements of SCARS and Mk 48 LMGs.

Sure, people are shouting about BNVDs and Integrated Ear Pro but hear me out. Even the US Army Special Forces/ Rangers haven't completely moved over to double tube. They use a mix of double tube and single tube NVGs and you simply can't compare Tier 1 guys of the US with Para SF guys cause Para SF is not a Tier 1 establishment in India. It's more geared towards a Tier 2 structure. And about integrated ear pro, that would be the only thing not in use but with the way the modernisation is working, I'm not sure it won't.
Also, you simply can't say that what the guys are seen using in Kashmir is the full kit. Kashmir is an AO where you respond in a moment's notice. And it being a domestic AO, there's a certain amount of lax in the operators. For precision operations, I'm a 100% sure, they don't just put on the bare minimum. Because then they have the time to gear up, head to toe.

 

[Killbot]

View attachment 63153View attachment 63154View attachment 63155View attachment 63156
Look guys, the way I see it, the Para SF guys are fairly well equipped. Definitely not as well equipped as the Western SOF but dollar for rupee, it's an obvious, unfair comparison. Right now, with all the different weapons platforms and gear pouring in as batches, there's a certain amount of in consistency but the Para SF operator of the near future will be homogeneously armed with the following gear and weaponry, (already in use by them, not uniformly)
High Ballistic Helmets with in ear Comms headsets connected to a radioset
Ergonomic plate carriers with molle system of attachment
All kinds of varied camo with knee and ankle pads
Thermal or single tube night vision headsets
Tavor/M4/decked out AK

And still we haven't taken into consideration the latest incoming procurements of SCARS and Mk 48 LMGs.

Sure, people are shouting about BNVDs and Integrated Ear Pro but hear me out. Even the US Army Special Forces/ Rangers haven't completely moved over to double tube. They use a mix of double tube and single tube NVGs and you simply can't compare Tier 1 guys of the US with Para SF guys cause Para SF is not a Tier 1 establishment in India. It's more geared towards a Tier 2 structure. And about integrated ear pro, that would be the only thing not in use but with the way the modernisation is working, I'm not sure it won't.
Also, you simply can't say that what the guys are seen using in Kashmir is the full kit. Kashmir is an AO where you respond in a moment's notice. And it being a domestic AO, there's a certain amount of lax in the operators. For precision operations, I'm a 100% sure, they don't just put on the bare minimum. Because then they have the time to gear up, head to toe.

Then your definition of fairly well equipped is fucked up. No they (Para) don't use dual tube NVG.. Show me one picture of them wearing one.. All USSOCOM personnel either wear dual or quad tubes. Monocular are what US Army infantry use. Those arm and knee pads are atrocious on SFs. Everyone knows they use those earphones, which become useless when bullets start flying, refer above posts. That sorry excuse of a plate carrier is neither ergonomic nor lightweight.. As we have discussed tome and time again, Tavors are not meant for SF use, and they need Short barrel Rifles (M4 is essentially a full length). All they have are Galil SARs, and they need to be upgraded. Also, they have all sorts of camo, you say... WHY THE FUCK DO THEY NEED ALL THAT BS?! THEY NEED ONE, SINGLE TYPE TO BE STANDARDISED (Multicam)..
Even RR folks are ready to go in 10 mind notice, so this 'don't have time to gear up argument falls apart'; and we've been over this 'ThEy dOn'T usE AlL THrIr eQuIpmEnT' argument. They wear all they have to high risk missions (which they shouldn't be doing on the first place), and all they have is crap for a force of their role and caliber.
Also fuck $3500 SCARs. They'd do much better with $600 plate carriers, $500 COMTACS, and $1500 AR15 style rifle. Add a good radio ($500), rifle optics ($500ish EOTech EXPS 2), magnifier ($300...??), and suppressor ($1000). And foregrip and IR laser device: $400ish.
TOTAL COST: $5300
SCAR-L with just suppressor, optic, IR device and Foregrip is ~$5400. Minus COMTACS, PC and Radio. Which are more important than the gun.

Its harsh, but its reality.