Indian Special Forces (archived)

[Unknowncommando 2]

IWI Jericho

FN FIVE-SEVEN

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I don't know why but marcos commando looks like they are strong AF. Like most of them look more tagde than their Army and airforce counterparts.

Depends on education also.Some people look classy some dont.

Para have what we call gurgaon k jat type of dudes..marcos are like bros.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

.........................

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

NSG Combat Free Fallers

SIG SG 551 SB + GL 5040 UBGL + NVS

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

Joint Exercise INDRA 2018

 

[Waanar]

You know what we REALLY lack?

PMCs. Hands down, PMCs can change the way we project our power (and we can be a bit reckless that way as well.)
Look at wars today-

USA has PMCs deployed EVERYWHERE and I'm sure they're not all just for guarding a bank 9-5.
Russia is using Wagner group in
Libya - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ry-drone-shot-down-libya-russia-a9237896.html
Syria - https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/...ican-commandos-russian-mercenaries-syria.html
Ukraine - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_green_men_(Ukrainian_crisis)
And several other African countries.
We have a cordial relation with Afghans but deploying PMCs marked as "security guards" wouldn't ruffle their feathers. After all "These are private security guards" sound far less threatening than "This is the entire 50th Parachute Brigade and their extended family" even if they're the same numbers.
Would also allow the intelligence agencies to operate more freely and curb movement and interference of Pork chops in Afghan region.
Finally, would allow some extension of reach in other countries where it might have not been previously possible and would also allow retired or injured soldiers a second livelihood.

Like, even a communist country like China understands the value of PMCs and has one itself.

And ITS COMMUNIST!
Go figure.

 

[Holy Triad]

This is what happens when self hating indians take over a thread,now we are left with bunch of facepalm emojis and gooochi drooling,


For those fanboys drooling over "GYAN",trust no one,just Google "fire team manoeuvres" and read as much as possible on the subject.(watch some hollywoohoos too)

Then come back and read this thread. And you will get how homogeneous this thread has become.


Now read this stuff on afsod and its chief,

Officers’ responsibilities:

Top sources said a lot of thought went into the selection of the officers to head this new division.

Maj. Gen. Dhingra, a Sri Lankan ops veteran, has been the commander of India’s only independent Para Brigade, and has served as the defence attaché in Washington. The concept of this division is also influenced from the US, which has the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC).

The newly-appointed officers have been asked to form the structured organisation by November-end, which will also include selecting where the headquarters will be based and what kind of equipment is needed.


https://theprint.in/defence/india-g...gets-miles-inside-enemy-territory/235786/?amp

Titbit about our incoming chief,

The other bloke in redtie next to Ashok is also a coursemate - Joe Sengupta another 9 PARA (Cdo). 17 SIKH to PARA ... Both buggers were in the thick of fighting in Srilanka! Both got Shot up in Action, both were thick-skinned enuf to survive to tell the tale.

Both are decorated!



Now tell me,do you guys still think,he is a kind of person goes on "vacation" in "Andaman".


P.s.: the reason why,the first mission was setup in andaman.


The Andaman and Nicobar Command is the first and only Tri-servicetheater command of the Indian Armed Forces, based at Port Blair in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, a Union Territory of India.[2][3] It was created in 2001 to safeguard India's strategic interests in Southeast Asia and the Strait of Malacca by increasing rapid deployment of military assets in the region. It provides logistical and administrative support to naval ships which are sent on deployment to East Asia and the Pacific Ocean.[4][5][6]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andaman_and_Nicobar_Command

 

[rkhanna]

This is what happens when self hating indians take over a thread,now we are left with bunch of facepalm emojis and gooochi drooling,

n-that-can-cripple-targets-miles-inside-enemy-territory/235786/?amp

Titbit about our incoming chief,


ikipedia.org/wiki/Andaman_and_Nicobar_Command

You are throwing alot of shade members way with any little substance. You want to rant. rant. Do yourself a favour and read through. and comment/rebut any comment you disagree with and when you do it do it with a bit of civic sense.

This bullcrap like "self loathing Indians" is low brow and devalues any conversation.


PS - not a single thing you have posted is new or has not been discussed on this thread before.

 

[Holy Triad]

any little substance

Thats why I gave them the simple test,once you do that, you will realise,what my "substance" is.

just Google "fire team manoeuvres" and read as much as possible on the subject.(watch some hollywoohoos too)

Then come back and read this thread. And you will get how homogeneous this thread has become.

So let them decide.

self loathing Indians

Its directed at those who hate their identity,not at you,so why you get uncomfortable with that?

You want to rant. rant.

bullcrap

You want to rant. rant.

classy

PS - not a single thing you have posted is new or has not been discussed on this thread before.

Oh I read that,read all of that, with all those "observations" that's what forced me to respond.

Btw,my intention of my post is,all about holding mirror on this thread,to show how far it gone off course and for those who still have conscience.
not interested in nuking this thread.... So don't expect any reply from me (mission:IGNORE)

 

[rkhanna]

Thats why I gave them the simple test,once you do that, you will realise,what my "substance" is.



So let them decide.



Its directed at those who hate their identity,not at you,so why you get uncomfortable with that?







classy






Oh I read that,read all of that, with all those "observations" that's what forced me to respond.

Btw,my intention of my post is,all about holding mirror on this thread,to show how far it gone off course and for those who still have conscience.
not interested in nuking this thread.... So don't expect any reply from me (mission:IGNORE)

Your Post does not hold a mirror to anything.

By yelling gucci gucci gucci you have missed the heart of the discussion completely and are now missing the forest for the trees.


If you read through the last 50+ pages of this thread you will understand the pointlessness of your posts.

 

[rkhanna]

Its directed at those who hate their identity,not at you,so why you get uncomfortable with that?

I loath anybody who tells anybody else about what they hate, or identity with and then pass judgment.

Lowbrow fallacious chest thumping nothing more.

 

[ALBY]

@rkhanna @Unknowncommando 2 @abingdonboy Isnt these zipper tactical vests discomfortable when compared with the vests of NSG and Marcos who use single integral vest for Kevlar plates and also to carry chest rigs as the zipper vests are loose fitted and mightbot be suitbale while running or hiking, also adds up bulkiness.
Forget if the issue is debated here

 

[Waanar]

I loath anybody who tells anybody else about what they hate, or identity with and then pass judgment.

Lowbrow fallacious chest thumping nothing more.

Do you realize the irony of your comment? XP

 

[rkhanna]

@rkhanna @Unknowncommando 2 @abingdonboy Isnt these zipper tactical vests discomfortable when compared with the vests of NSG and Marcos who use single integral vest for Kevlar plates and also to carry chest rigs as the zipper vests are loose fitted and mightbot be suitbale while running or hiking, also adds up bulkiness.
Forget if the issue is debated here

My 2 paisa (from my experience) - why i dont like them

1) The zipper Vests make for horrendous load bearing gear. Anybody who has hiked or is into mountain climbing will understand the mechanics of loadbearing equipment including the need to clasp higher on the chest for stability and reducing pressure off the lower spine. -

- Keep in mind everything (from the zips to the velcros) are made by the lowest bidder. Having a vest zip break in the middle of an operation would be a real bitch.
- The buckles on them just add to the chaos on your vest when you are tyring to find crap in the middle of a firefight without looking or in the dark.

2) they are generally looser to accommodate the Kevlar plates underneath which need their own vests- you will end up having all your gear banging around inside the vests and the vest itself moving with your body - UNCOMFORTABLE

3) Decent amount of Real Estate between the Neck and Upper chest becomes useless and cannot accommodate any gear. - With everything lower on your body higher change of your gun sling getting stuck on your mag pouches

But they still exists and are made and a few military units do sport them....

 

[rkhanna]

Do you realize the irony of your comment? XP

err No.

Hope you understand what he was doing - Blanket accusation and a subtle insult against unnamed members without specifically pointing at anything tangible

My calling out a Bully (no matter if they are correct or not) is a big difference.

Don't confuse duality with irony. (For example being a Bigot is not okay. Discriminating against bigots is)

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Interview with Lt Gen Prakash Katoch, PARA SF Veteran on Special Forces & Surgical Strikes
By
Raghav Gakhar
-
July 15, 2018
0
3511

Lt Gen Prakash C. Katoch, PVSM, UYSM, AVSM, SC is a Special Forces veteran of the Indian army. DefenceLover spoke to Lt. Gen Prakash Katoch on his thoughts over many things, ranging from Para SF, to special forces of US, UK, Pakistan and China, and lastly with Surgical Strikes. We hope that those who aspire to join Indian army and special forces learn from his experience.

Question: Since the time Para Special Forces is raised, where are they majorly deployed?

Answer: Their deployment has been largely within the country other than in Sri Lanka – where the then three Parachute Commando battalions were deployed and did exceptionally well. In fact the LTTE intercepts stated they were very afraid of these units. During the IPKF tenure, the Parachute Commando battalions were renamed Special Forces. In addition, Special Forces have also been deployed in UN missions.

Question: What was the purpose of creating an another unit when we already had parachute units in the Indian army?

Answer: Parachute units are like regular infantry units that are trained for aerial induction. Once they are inducted by air and touch ground, their tasks are like the infantry – holding ground. Special Forces undertake special missions and do not hold ground.

Question: From Siachen to Sri Lanka to J&K and others, you have served at almost every where a soldier can be deployed, which posting was the most challenging of all of them?

Answer: The experience is different and cannot be really equated. In Sri Lanka I was commanding a battalion and challenges were very different – thick jungles, lagoons, counter-insurgency, well trained and motivated LTTE that used knowledge of ground very well. In Siachen, I was commanding a Brigade and though I made sure to spend nights at forward posts whenever possible, at ground level Siachen is the toughest for troops.

Question: What are the different rifles used by Para Special Forces till now?

Answer: They were initially having the same rifle as the rest of the Indian Army – the bulky 7.62 mm SLR which was semi-automatic, and even had this rifle when they went to Sri Lanka while fighting the LTTE equipped with the lighter, fully automatic and virtually no-stoppage AK-47. During the IPKF in Sri Lanka, Army was forced to import 1,00,000 AK-47 rifles because the DRDO was unable to produce an indigenous rifle– these AK-47 rifles were distribute to units, with each Special Forces battalion getting about 120 AKs. Eventually, the DRDO produced the 5.56 INSAS rifle but was not anywhere top of the line. Special Forces battalions were also were equipped with these, in addition to the AK’s they got in Sri Lanka. In early 2000s, the Tavor assault rifles were imported from Israel. However, there was rapid expansion of the Special Forces battalions after that, because of which the Tavors got shared with the new units. Therefore, the Special Forces presently are holding mix of Tavor’s and AKs.

Question: Are our Para special forces equipped with the latest technology and weapons? How good is the Tavor as a weapon?

Answer: Better than rest of the army, but you really cannot say it is the latest technology in the world. Moreover, equipping is not packaged and there are plenty voids. Not being packaged implies that if a 5-man assault squad is not given the complete set of weapons and equipment it is authorized that there would be that less combat capability. For example, the hand-held laser target designators are yet to be procured more than 15 years after these were authorized. There is tremendous scope of improvement in communications and surveillance systems. There is even shortage of GPS. Even rucksacks are being purchase at unit level using own funds because the ones supplied by ordnance factories directly under ministry of defence are sub-standard.

Question: What is the primary task of Indian para special forces? Are we using them Optimally?

Answer: The main task of Special Forces should be: one, employment on politico-military missions at strategic levels to shape the environment in India’s favour, and; two, act as force multiplier to operations by military. We are not using them optimally at all – employment on politico-military missions at strategic levels to shape the environment in India’s favour is totally missing.

Question: How are the countries like US, UK, and China are using their special forces?

Answer: These countries are using their Special Forces pro-actively in their areas of strategic interests with covert deployment. US Special Forces (USSF) are deployed today in some 186 countries. They also undertake direct actions in covert manner individually or in conjunction irregular forces and mercenary outfits. Same goes for UK, Russia and Pakistan. Chinese special forces along with PLA elements are deployed in development projects around the world, including in India’s immediate neighbourhood.

Question: What are the notable differences between Indian and American special forces units?

Answer: Equipping (as mentioned earlier), command and control, and employment philosophy – there is no thinking at the national level.

Question: Is Indian Intelligence working closely with Para SF? How badly do we need intelligence to work with our special forces?

Answer: There is no concept of external intelligence agencies operation together with Special Forces for strategic tasks – like practiced by US, UK, Israel, Russia, China, Pakistan. In our case that cooperation is limited to operations within J&K. That is why we have adverse strategic asymmetry vis-à-vis China-Pakistan in terms of sub-conventional warfare.

Question: Talking about two year old surgical strike, we still hear about the same in documentaries, movies or in news. Do our Special Forces need so much of exposure?

Answer: Special Forces operations are covert and are never publicized. Have you heard CIA, MI-6, Mossad, FSB, ISI, Chinese intelligence brag about their actions? Such publicity gives away capability, technical prowess, and modus operandi, all of which are dangerous for conduct of similar operations in future.

Question: The videos of Surgical strikes has been released. How does it effect our security limits or measures? Was the response of Indian Government to surgical strike was of a mature one?

Answer: Government has acted in highly immature and foolish for gaining political mileage, timing it with the next general elections, even as it violates the unwritten code of intelligence operations and special operations that are not to be made public. The surgical strikes were an excellent operation but the mere fact that these have not been repeated despite numerous terror attacks makes us the laughing stock. Besides, the self-aggrandizement that it would stop future Pakistani cross-border actions was childish. But then Defence Minister Mohan Parrikar saying that he taught the army their capabilities and sent them into POK like Hanuman shows how ridiculously juvenile our politicians are in terms of matters military. We need the response mechanism like Israel, but that looks highly unlikely because of lack of political will.

Question: As a Veteran who served for more than 40 years, what is your message for the youth who aspire to achieve Balidan Badge and serve in special forces?

Answer: These are the best forces that the Army has, that is why they are called “Special”. If the youth want to join the outfit you need determination and preparation. Having been brought up in a village of Himachal Pradesh, I did not know cycling and swimming when I joined the Indian Military Academy. So I was perpetually on punishment and even detained in the break after first term till I cleared all swimming tests

 

[rkhanna]

Interview with Lt Gen Prakash Katoch, PARA SF Veteran on Special Forces & Surgical Strikes
By
Raghav Gakhar
-
July 15, 2018
0o I was perpetually on punishment and even detained in the break after first term till I cleared all swimming tests

Thanks for posting.

This sums up the last 50 pages of this thread pretty well. Maybe the good General is also an inferior feeling Indian?

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Historically, Indian Special Forces have been used for direct action type of roles during conventional wars. The hierarchal understanding of trans-border employment of Special Forces in India is short distanced physical or direct type of actions executed on a unit/sub-unit basis to achieve battlefield victories. There is no concept of them being used abroad other than in conventional war. While Special Forces should be central to asymmetric response including against irregular forces, asymmetric warfare does not automatically equate to a physical attack. A physical attack is only the extreme and potentially most dangerous expression of asymmetric warfare. The key lies in achieving strategic objectives through application of modest resources with the essential psychological element.

Globally accepted Special Forces truths are – humans are more important than hardware; quality is better than quantity; Special Forces cannot be mass produced; and competent Special Forces cannot be created after emergencies arise. Regrettably, India has ignored these factors. Authorised expansion rate o SOCOM is 1.8 per cent annually though in 2011, this was hiked to 2.5 per cent in 2011, and now there is a bid for an addition of 3,000 which includes ‘support elements’ due to increased responsibilities.

Pakistan added the fourth SSG battalion only in recent years. India went in for a 120 per cent increase in the period 2001-2004 alone including converting three parachute
battalions to Special Forces. The unprecedented expansion was resorted to by deliberately feeding the hierarchy that 20,000 USSF were operating in Iraq and
Afghanistan, which was untrue since this included 82 and 101 AB Divisions of the US. Actually even in the peak period of USSF deployment only 90xOperation Detachments Alpha (ODAs) were actually used (each ODA is 10-12 strong). In terms of expansion, we are making the same mistake in the expansion of the NSG.

Our Special Forces lack quality manpower including officers and shortages are shared with rest of the military, which implies that the significance of Special Forces is little understood.
It is significant to note how seriously the USSF takes the issue of quality manpower. Take, for example, the personnel policies of the SEAL Team 6, which carried out the raid to kill Osama Bin US Navy personnel volunteer for the SEALS and only those who make the cut are inducted. They serve in other SEAL teams for several years gaining operational experience.
Out of this lot, volunteers then opt for SEAL Team 6. It means they are truly the best of the best. Their average age profile is 32 years, which shows they have the right mix of youth and experience. This also underlines the seriousness with which the US develops their SF for various roles. The success of Op Neptune Spear is a testimony to that.

Equipping

Being under different chains of command, there is no commonality in equipment and no concept of ‘packaged equipping’, aside from Specialist/advanced training facilities being inadequate. Packaged equipment
essential because if a sub-unit does not have the complete authorised equipment, its combat capability will obviously be less

essential because if a sub-unit does not have the complete authorised equipment, its combat capability will obviously be less
entities to include voice, data, video streaming, light-weight long-range global communications to call multiple weapon strikes, state-of-the-art listening and surveillance devices, from miniature
devices hand-held to MAVs, helicopter transportable all terrain vehicles, corner shots, goggles/devices to see through walls, hand-held EW weapons, state-of-the-art explosive devices with long-term timers, all-terrain light-weight clothing and load carriage, latest survival equipment, to name a few.

begin with, the Special Forces should be organised as a small 200 to 300 strong force with the highest regional specialisation, directly under the highest political authority since most politico-military missions would be without reference to the military because of the sensitive nature Manpower should be drawn from existing Special Forces plus other all India avenues. They should be tasked with surveillance and target designation in areas of strategic interest, shaping asymmetric and conventional battlefield to Indian advantage, deterring opponents exploiting.
our faultlines, controlling faultlines of adversaries, undertaking information/psychological operations and unconventional warfare, anti-hijack, building partner capabilities with friendly countries and providing cutting edge for strategic force projection.

Conclusion

There is an urgent need to create a deterrent against irregular and unconventional forces. Pro-active employment of Special Forces can help create such deterrence. While we may continue building military and political will, we must concurrently get on with building this capability.



( article by LT general Prakash katoach.)

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Globally accepted Special Forces truths are – humans are more important than hardware; quality is better than quantity; Special Forces cannot be mass produced; and competent Special Forces cannot be created after emergencies arise.

Indian army is suffering from imperial gernail attitude no one cares for life of troops and matter of reality is if enemy is using steel coated rounds xyz Indian soldier doesn't have a bullet proof heart to protect himself.
India is lacking in R&D section till the time we don't produce top class equipment get ready to create more space for higher number of body bags.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Thanks for posting.

This sums up the last 50 pages of this thread pretty well. Maybe the good General is also an inferior feeling Indian?

This interview was before AFSOD. Now and hopefully more in the future, we will see increases in budgetting and technology for the SF guys.