Indian Special Forces (archived)

[MuzzleVelocity]

The DMR version can go upto 800m effective range.


Thats just the one made by a JTF2 operator in Iraq. Extreme desert heat and rarefied atmosphere will provide conditions that allow for an extension of the maximum range, and even then, it would've been from a .50 BMG calibre.

Most sniper engagements are more to the tune of around 1.5 - 1.8 km. That's where the preferred sniper cartridge of today, .338 Lapua Magnum, excels.


Not really. Infantry platoon snipers are equipped with either 7.62x51mm NATO, or .338 Lapua at best. And there's not much chance that it is going beyond 1800mtrs at sea level atmospheric parameters.

Both the second (Craig Harrison) and third (Rob Furlong) longest sniper kills were made in Afghanistan with .338 Lapua, where again, one has to account for the thinner air and possible altitude advantage the snipers would've had while firing down at the targets.



Like I have said here on this thread again and again, the boots on the ground are not to be blamed for what they have or dont have. Its more to do with the powers-that-be in charge of procuring new and up to date equipment.

That being said, now new equipment is finding its way to the SF slowly. The Victrix Scorpio is the most recent such example. Possibly NSG can show the way in this regard. They have equipment and tactics most contemporary to other top notch CT/HRT units in the world.

I don't disagree with your post except the bolded bit. But firing down at targets from an altitude is one of the hardest sniper shots there is. In fact the moment you insert incline to the equation, it's a hard shot to make with a decent wind blowing. The sniper has to adjust for both angle and wind here, and it gets tough to make a cold bore shot.

The thinner air might help. The incline actually only makes things harder.

 

[armyofhind]

I don't disagree with your post except the bolded bit. But firing down at targets from an altitude is one of the hardest sniper shots there is. In fact the moment you insert incline to the equation, it's a hard shot to make with a decent wind blowing. The sniper has to adjust for both angle and wind here, and it gets tough to make a cold bore shot.

The thinner air might help. The incline actually only makes things harder.

To my knowledge, the shot from an elevation is hard because adjusting for elevation becomes more complicated, since the ballistics are modified.
Suppose a shot is to be made on flat ground at a target say, 1000mtrs away, if regularly it might require an adjustment of 2 mils, while sitting at a height, it will require less than that. And figuring out "how much" less, is what adds complexity to setting up the shot.
That's why, shooting from elevation down at a target, or shooting from a lower altitude up at a target, is both difficult.

But as far as an extension in the range goes, just by simple physics, if you're firing from a height down at something, there's the added potential energy which you can convert into an extension of range (kinetic energy).

In my earlier post, I was only talking about how sitting at an elevation in an atmosphere that is rarefied will add an extension to the effective range of the cartridge.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The rifle is not in the Army list in not due to its furniture or specs which are according to Army requirement rather new development which demand a different caliber altogether,

Wood is better in long run Indian Army still use wooden furniture SVD, SP66 and galil sniper rifle which is consider a better is in wood and operational within para sf units.

If we are talking about 2006-11 era the fiber furniture was not bad as evident on 1B1 of that time, which i also used.

It is true however that Army requested wooden furniture for the OFB rifle at first...an unfounded decision as evidenced by the fact they no longer want it.

I suppose only if made of extremely poor quality plastics instead of a proper polymer.

There isn't a single major sniper rifle manufacturer in the world who markets wooden-stocked precision rifles meant for military service (hunting rifles are different thing) today. Those are passe for a reason.

My guess is, Army may have requested wood based on previous experience with poor quality polymers from OFB, however, perhaps after one of the foreign dealers gave gyan about why everyone uses polymer nowadays, Army changed its mind.

Good thing is, after inducting the Victrix Scorpio and hopefully after evaluating the SSS rifles, Army won't take a second look at the OFB crap. Problem with OFB is that they won't do anything unless Army specifies it first...and Army procurers themselves don't stay well-informed most of the time so its a vicious circle.

 

[abingdonboy]

Ghataks serving along the LOC and in other operational posts are as well equipped* (if not better in many ways) as the Army’s SF. Says it all doesn’t it?

There was a time when regulars had utterly pathetic equipment and SFs at least he helmets, plate carriers and comns now there’s literally no disparity.

there’s nothing special about SF in India anymore.


* and should I add more uniform and professional looking too?

 

[Gessler]

Wood is better in long run Indian Army still use wooden furniture SVD, SP66 and galil sniper rifle which is consider a better is in wood and operational within para sf units.

These are all weapons designed in a more or less bygone era. If you look at even the more modern versions of these same guns, you'll see they all settled on polymer furniture only. Must be for a reason, no?...and definitely not because wood is better otherwise everyone would be doing the opposite of what they're doing now.

And yes Paras & MARCOS too started adopting the polymer Galil sniper/Galatz:

One can't say someone used wood 40 years ago on SVD (either because it made economic sense at the time or because development of reliable polymer plastics was at nascent stage), and use it to justify the same on a rifle developed in 2010s.

The only argument that makes sense as to why OFB did so is that its because IA asked it to. Why they asked only IA procurers can answer...and it would appear whatever reasons they had were (probably) unfounded as otherwise they would have specified the same requirement for .338 rifle as well.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

MARCOS & PARA SF

The Passing out Ceremony for one officer and 14 Jawans from seven different Para #SpecialForces Regiments of the #IndianArmy was held on 26 October 2019 at Diving School. Mathu Raj, PTR from 01 Para SF was adjudged as the best diver of the course. The diving training included daily surface and underwater work up drills, confidence building drills and emergency and evacuation drills. The trainees were additionally trained for planning and carrying out combat diving in variable environmental conditions, such as zero visibility and strong tidal streams. #IndianNavy#Jointmanship #Diving

 

[samsaptaka]

Watch from 4:48

....................................................................

Is there a video which has the full talk of the TONBO CEO. This video has cut out his talk.

 

[Waanar]

Ey bwoyz.
Was looking up details on TA's Parachute Regiment constituent and am pretty damn confused. SF or not SF?

Deputed to SF based on skills? Training standards? Ops? Casualties? Members?
All I can understand is 106 and 116 Infantry Battalion and the story of Major Pradeep Arya (IRS Officer) in Shiv Aroor's book.
How does this work?
I saw a Shatrujeet post saying you can be deputed in SF from either of the TA battalions on the basis of Lingual skills (Arabic, Urdu, Mandarin or Pastho), Cyber warfare skills, Tactical operations (whatever that means; I thought all Paras were trained for tactical situtations) or counter terrorism financing and anti money laundering training.

What I'm basically asking is, what the fuck do they do?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

To make weapon lighter ?, It stands ok with assault rifle but not precision rifles ..

I had SVD in wooden, I am yet to talk with someone who used both to tell me what its like ..

These are all weapons designed in a more or less bygone era. If you look at even the more modern versions of these same guns, you'll see they all settled on polymer furniture only. Must be for a reason, no?...and definitely not because wood is better otherwise everyone would be doing the opposite of what they're doing now.

And yes Paras & MARCOS too started adopting the polymer Galil sniper/Galatz:

One can't say someone used wood 40 years ago on SVD (either because it made economic sense at the time or because development of reliable polymer plastics was at nascent stage), and use it to justify the same on a rifle developed in 2010s.

The only argument that makes sense as to why OFB did so is that its because IA asked it to. Why they asked only IA procurers can answer...and it would appear whatever reasons they had were (probably) unfounded as otherwise they would have specified the same requirement for .338 rifle as well.

 

[Gessler]

To make weapon lighter ?, It stands ok with assault rifle but not precision rifles ..

Making the stock/furniture out of polymer and/or metal is actually more beneficial for precision rifles, as it helps retain precision, as they are always less susceptible to mess with accuracy as a result of environmental conditions (like wood-warping).

The best examples are probably those precision platforms which originally started out with wooden furniture (like M40, M14 or even our SVDs) but ended up with synthetic versions in their latter variants as the manufacturers (and the respective services) accumulated enough feedback from several conflicts.

Probably as a result of which all new-age precision rifles meant for military/law-enforcement users coming from some experienced manufacturers like McMillan or Accuracy International are now almost exclusively using stocks made of fiberglass construction.

http://www.mcmillanfirearms.com/mcmillan-rifles/tactical-rifles/

Most of the SVDs used by IA have unfortunately not received the updates that the same platform has underwent in Russian service (some did, not that hard to find IA-used SVDs with black polymer handguards and stocks nowadays, some pics below).

But regardless, with companies like SSS, FAB Defence and others coming up with offers for upgrade kits for the SVD, I'd reckon the day is not far when this will be the norm:

Preferably something that allows for a Picatinny interface (like in 2nd pic) allowing the shooter the freedom to adopt some new variable-power optics of higher magnification than the pretty dated fixed-power 4x PSO-1, which in my opinion is frankly a pretty good optic for a squad marksman rifle (which is what Soviets intended the SVD to be) but woefully inadequate for what is meant to be a sniper's rifle (which is what the bulk of IA has to rely on the SVD to deliver, owing to the lack of something like a SV-98).

The handful Victrix .338s are just an emergency purchase and it doesn't appear the IA's pending competition for a larger number of .338 rifles will get anywhere anytime soon, all the more reason to upgrade the functionality of the workhorse SVD a bit.

 

[Gessler]

Bro you laugh but that OFB rifle isn’t too bad actually. It’s very accurate from what I hear, the wooden construction is customer preference (god knows why) and OFB are working to increase its range to 800-1000m.

800m is very decent for a 7.62x51 platform. The US military's M40 which uses the same round has an 'official' effective range of 800m. Ofcourse the round can go much farther, and there are many accounts of some excellent shots made well beyond that with the M40, but then again no one said the bullet just drops to the ground in a 90* dive after 800m...taking advantage of it beyond the 'effective range' is completely up to the shooter.

There's a lot of potential in the OFB platform, if they got the rifle itself figured out (which it appears they did owing to all these CAPF/Police orders), its not that hard to change up the body that the bolt & trigger group sit in.

It requires just a bit of pragmatism and entrepreneurship though. And I'm afraid OFB is lacking there.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I never came to know about the issue with respect to wood warping with any of the SLR in service before we went to 1B1, probably this is why wooden SVDs are still there and new once bought are in fiber body.

I myself a shooter in 10m air rifle and i felt better with wooden furniture weapons as they are well balanced heavy and feel good with hands and body compare with aluminum ( metal ) or fiber, though this is a personal opinion with respect to precision weapon furniture.

I will keep in mind this discussion and whenever i get to meet such a individual personally will share it here.

Making the stock/furniture out of polymer and/or metal is actually more beneficial for precision rifles, as it helps retain precision, as they are always less susceptible to mess with accuracy as a result of environmental conditions (like wood-warping).

The best examples are probably those precision platforms which originally started out with wooden furniture (like M40, M14 or even our SVDs) but ended up with synthetic versions in their latter variants as the manufacturers (and the respective services) accumulated enough feedback from several conflicts.

Probably as a result of which all new-age precision rifles meant for military/law-enforcement users coming from some experienced manufacturers like McMillan or Accuracy International are now almost exclusively using stocks made of fiberglass construction.

http://www.mcmillanfirearms.com/mcmillan-rifles/tactical-rifles/

Most of the SVDs used by IA have unfortunately not received the updates that the same platform has underwent in Russian service (some did, not that hard to find IA-used SVDs with black polymer handguards and stocks nowadays, some pics below).

But regardless, with companies like SSS, FAB Defence and others coming up with offers for upgrade kits for the SVD, I'd reckon the day is not far when this will be the norm:

Preferably something that allows for a Picatinny interface (like in 2nd pic) allowing the shooter the freedom to adopt some new variable-power optics of higher magnification than the pretty dated fixed-power 4x PSO-1, which in my opinion is frankly a pretty good optic for a squad marksman rifle (which is what Soviets intended the SVD to be) but woefully inadequate for what is meant to be a sniper's rifle (which is what the bulk of IA has to rely on the SVD to deliver, owing to the lack of something like a SV-98).

The handful Victrix .338s are just an emergency purchase and it doesn't appear the IA's pending competition for a larger number of .338 rifles will get anywhere anytime soon, all the more reason to upgrade the functionality of the workhorse SVD a bit.

 

[rkhanna]

Below is a link to a Reality TV show produced by SOFREP. It has a bunch of ex SOF operators learning and competing against each other

https://sofrep.com/videos/category/training-cell

If anybody is interested they should watch / download torrents

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Special forces in actions from 2018.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

No gloves pathetic helmet no protection for eyes. Old age bullet proof jacket.
I always said gear for photo ops is different and gear on ground is different.

IA - you have tavor gun now you are special forces. If these guy's are with AK-47 i cannot even make difference between them and infantry

 

[Kunal Biswas]

NSFW

From CT operations ..

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

A joint security exercise was conducted by
@IAF_MCC
@adgpi
NSG Commandos &
@MumbaiPolice
at Air Force Station in Kalina Mumbai. The exercise was intended to coordinate actions between various forces & ability to undertake urban warfare in a synergistic manner.

 

[Aashk]

A good watch...
Don't know whether it belongs here or not

 

[abingdonboy]

NSG

^ “CG”= command/crash group. They are the C&C element of NSG task forces. The innova is an integrated command post with full SATCOM capability in addition to VHF and UHF R/T. The CG use the integrated command post and other CG assets to control and direct their assets in real time




This is what I am very impressed by NSG these days, they are not sat still and are constantly innovating and evolving.

some more:

^ Total containment vehicle (TCV) allows for the remote retrieval and containment of suspect devices. The TCV can contain explosive devices of up to 30-50KG.

^F550 based MARS assault ladder system. Unique thing about the MARS is that it has split platform that allow assaulters to use a single platform to enter two different entry points at two different elevations.

And of course we know they have even more than these showcased here.


Another centre of excellence inside NSG has got to be their K9 division. From a few sniffer dogs in 2008 to world class detection dogs to amongst the best general/assault dogs on the planet that are not just impeccably trained but have the best equipment for them around ( communications, video feeds, protective equipment etc etc ):

And some clowns with military backgrounds and the typical self-important attitudes had the shame to ask why NSG was used in Pathankot and not the military SOFs! I doubt any military SOF unit in India has even 5% of the specialist equipment of the NSG. Frankly I wouldn’t call any military officer in India, even if they have an SF background experts in urban ops- that has to be a privilege reserved for NSG in India today. It’s not even just a question of equipment, NSG trains in an entirely more relevant and effective way to military SOFs. NSG is more mission-focused, military SOFs prefer to create rambos and run pointless commando drills.

NSG maintains a single one-shot solution. Their CTTF (counter terror task force) based at Delhi and to an extent the SCGs (Special Composite Groups) based in their hubs are ready to deploy 24/7 at short notice and they have provisions to take care of most high profile security scenarios that could emerge. Apart from C&C and assaulters they have attached EOD units, medics, support staff, specialist vehicles and provisions to be entirely self-contained for 48 hours.

There is NO other unit in India that has anything close to this capability. Mil SOF have ready squads but they are assaulters at most, they haven’t got the support assets of the NSG deployable units.

Now of course NSG isn’t perfect and still has some way to go to become what they should be- a truly world class force on par with the most elite CT units in existence but I wouldn’t bet against them reaching this level with the approach they have relentlessly taken in the last decade whilst military SOF units In India have largely stagnated.

 

[abingdonboy]

Miscellaneous

It’s funny isn’t it, the contempt and venom the military leadership and those retired from it have for the IPS but this IPS run organisation has utterly humiliated them in terms of their transformation and capability upgrade and this isn’t a isolated case- most units under MHA have more modern small arms than those under MOD.

I guess military folks want to demean IPS because if IPS performs it will only further highlight what frauds Indian military leadership is and the jolly ride they’ve been taking the Indian public on all these years- 100s of billions thrown at them for very very mediocre returns. Where did all the money go I wonder becuase we know how adverse they are to Indian products.