Indian Special Forces (archived)

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abingdonboy

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You wouldn't know the meaning of clinical if it hit you in the face. You're the same person suggesting dropping a 500 pounder while a SF combat controller perched up on a hill calls it in on a jihadi sniper hut is more clinical than a silent whispered execution in the dead of the night. In such as case I am sorry we have to disagree on the meaning of it. Sure, Indian SF dreams of better equipment but that doesn't stop them from being among the most well trained and motivated troops on God's green earth.

Your feelings don't matter. Facts are simple, our SF have been a lot more successful in their ops and they continue to use the tradition of good soldering while slowly upgrading to whats new (depends entirely on military and MOD bureaucracy).

Also, where do you come up with this garbage? What modern threat isn't the SF adapted to, please explain your garbage? And don't just compare pictures of gung ho SF units from across the world, many of these units don't have a kill to their name for years by the way.
See you’re spewing the same old debunked talking points whilst simultaneously engaging in the same ignorant analysis you claim I am providing.

Sure the soldiers are well motivated but HOW can you possibly claim they are well trained when they can’t possibly train or operate in sync with actual modern units becuase of their equipment limitations? Training and tactics are a function of equipment, you’ve got it completely backwards.

Trying to claim that somehow Indian SFs are unique in their ability to withstand technological change and not adapt at all to the last 20 years so as to still be considered amongst the world’s best. But I’m sure the US is spending BILLIONS on their special forces just because they like burning money. Why give a SEAL $40,000 GPNVG-18s when they could’ve just learnt from the Indian SFs how to see and operate in the pitch black?


Your inability to accept that Indian SFs lag behind and could learn beatnik practices from the rest of the world is the kind of mindset that has led to this mess.

What happened after 26/11? NSG introspected and transformed their operational structure and upgraded their equipment. Indian mil SFs keep making the same mistakes but don’t seem to evolve let alone revolutionise.

Have you seen the “operator” transformation that has gone on in the last 20 years in the West? It’s even inspired those in the east and non-aligned world but Indian SFs remain immune and do things in their typical backwards way.

There’s a reason the world doesn’t rate indian SFs and it’s not Just because of ignorance.

Indian leadership doesn’t take SFs seriously and it all trickles down from there.
 

abingdonboy

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Bro..

Stick to flying and playing PUBG in your free time.

You are hitting your head against the wall here trying to make a point.

Come to this thread once a month to see some pictures.

I have done this long ago.

Advice from a fellow aviator...Happy landings.
Lol I’m getting to the same place bro, checking in every now and then or checking in daily won’t make much difference. Could even afford to check in annually and the effect would be the same.

Happy landings and clear skies to you bro!
 

abingdonboy

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IMO - we dont even need to follow the American Model. Their budget and needs will always outstrip other countries (forget ours) but other interesting models in first world countries are that of Britain, France and Germany - Budgets similar to ours

BUT the best example we could look at (for emerging economy countries are)

1. Russia - their Special Operations Command has come a LONG way in 10 years
2. Poland - The flexibility and range of their SOF are amazing. Both DevGru and Delta look at GROM as an equal
3. South Korea - they too have a crazy neighbor on their border
4. Philippines -
India needs to come up with its own model, no others are relevant to India’s unique threats and internal dynamics.

The thing is one doesn’t even need to look outside for lessons, it is well understood what needs to happen- countless committee recommendations remain untouched in the MOD. It’s the same story across the board, it’s the reason why India is doomed to remain a regional power UNLESS it’s leadership wakes up (no evidence of that thus far).

How long have the ideas of setting up tri-service cyber, special ops and space commands been proposed but stalled by the myopic leadership in the MOD and all service headquarters.

Originally the idea was for a full fledged SOCOM but the army so alarmed at the idea of ceding what they perceived as “their” domain ensured this was whittled down to a much smaller in size and scope special ops “division” (SOD) which instead of encompassing all special mission units and their support assets would be more akin to JSOC with elements from all 3 services but the majority of assets remaining with their original commands.


Let’s see how even the SOD performs, it could be doomed to fail by design as it will still require the cooperation of the legacy commands from the parent services which is never a recipe for success in India.
 

ALBY

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How come Airborne is still using Aks without any rails or optics plus those brens and old helmets where Ghataks and other RR units gets modified Aks and undercut helmets. Same goes for the Marcos.
Though SF had updated their arsenal to some extent, Para Airborne is still at the early 2000s or late 90s.
 

abingdonboy

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View attachment 29785 View attachment 29786
Looks like Para Airborne using this QZCTs as standard now @debspark90
View attachment 29787 View attachment 29788 View attachment 29789
MARCOS during Tri Service Joint Ex Madad 2018
PARA (Airbone) still using BREN LMGs and MARCOs still using AKs looking like some Arab militia, wish I could say I was surprised. This is getting worse and worse, what a shambles.

ONLY thing these clowns know how to do is procure new uniform patterns.
 

pankaj nema

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@abingdonboy If you really think US Seals
Are Super Men , then point out any of their Mission against a well defended Military Target

They have always operated against Rag tag militias and terrorist hideouts

Even in case of Salala Attack in Pakistan
They used only helicopters , no ground troops

Americans always have assured Air support
In case things go wrong

We can't do that on a regular basis

Our SF have to operate quietly on the LOC
 
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pankaj nema

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In times of peace , our SF Para will only cross the LOC on foot and kill Pakis

That is all that will happen in peace time


In war time, during Recent Exercise
We have proved that
we can Air drop an Entire Brigade behind Enemy lines along with Para Commandos , 81 mm Mortars , demolition experts etc

But for that let war be declared

And even if a Para Brigade has to be Air dropped that target area will first be softened with Air strikes and long range artillery
 

Immanuel

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See you’re spewing the same old debunked talking points whilst simultaneously engaging in the same ignorant analysis you claim I am providing.

Sure the soldiers are well motivated but HOW can you possibly claim they are well trained when they can’t possibly train or operate in sync with actual modern units becuase of their equipment limitations? Training and tactics are a function of equipment, you’ve got it completely backwards.

Trying to claim that somehow Indian SFs are unique in their ability to withstand technological change and not adapt at all to the last 20 years so as to still be considered amongst the world’s best. But I’m sure the US is spending BILLIONS on their special forces just because they like burning money. Why give a SEAL $40,000 GPNVG-18s when they could’ve just learnt from the Indian SFs how to see and operate in the pitch black?


Your inability to accept that Indian SFs lag behind and could learn beatnik practices from the rest of the world is the kind of mindset that has led to this mess.

What happened after 26/11? NSG introspected and transformed their operational structure and upgraded their equipment. Indian mil SFs keep making the same mistakes but don’t seem to evolve let alone revolutionise.

Have you seen the “operator” transformation that has gone on in the last 20 years in the West? It’s even inspired those in the east and non-aligned world but Indian SFs remain immune and do things in their typical backwards way.

There’s a reason the world doesn’t rate indian SFs and it’s not Just because of ignorance.

Indian leadership doesn’t take SFs seriously and it all trickles down from there.
You've got it completely doggystyle, perhaps you like being #Metoo. I never said Indian SF shouldn't be equipped better, I only say your Western SFs are mostly for show and apart from a few respectable units in Israel, US, UK, Russia the rest are pretty much for show, they lack experience while they sport slightly better kit. In Indian conditions as proven by recent trials most weapons fail while some are just far too expensive or didn't respond to our RFPs, Our SF works with reliable equipment with Tavors, AKs, M-4 Mods, SCAR, P-90s, Negevs. Tavors are good, they have decent optics be it MARS or MEPRO MOR sights, they both have both visible and IR lasers. Sure we need better NVG, Thermal sights (hopefully massive scale orders for Tonbo products), good plate carriers and gloves & comms. They already deploy hand launched drones. Ballistic shields are commonly seen too. Some units have started receiving new gen helmets. Sure, there is plenty of disparity over many units when it comes equipment level but surely we're getting there. Some recent ops also had DRDO unmanned armed ground vehicles taking part. Wall radars are in use along with corner shots and other such gizmos. Garuds recently got a micro drone. It's bit of patchwork over the several units but to say they are horribly out of date is silly and pure fake news, none of the other countries have a size of SF as we do. Moreso to say this has somehow prevented them from performing any missions given to them is even more fake news. Also to say that this lack of the latest kit has somehow made our soldiers illiterates during exchanges with other forces is even bigger fake news. The truth has always been that India SF has been a very adaptive force and among the most capable on the planet. Equipment level won't help me prove that point but long list of successful missions, valor under extensive fire, an ever increasing kill list proves you utterly wrong. By the way, the kill list keeps going up.

So actually it's mixed news and nothing that proves our SF units are somehow less trained in any way and some equipment deficiency doesn't change the quality of the soldier. If anything, US or other SF units learn a lot more about actual COIN and Anti terror tactics when in India while ours get more exposure to their equipment and slightly better tech.


Might want to listen to what even US operators have to say about operational tactics, clearly someone thinks our tactics were superior even in basic exchanges.

So wait, Indian SF goes several miles into Pak territory with drones watching, real time feeds to PM, NSA etc., they fuck shit up on a grand scale over 7 different locations spread over a space of 250km, all without a whisper of an attack. Enemy is caught totally off-guard over a 100 KIA including over a dozen or more regulars, many posts destroyed and the return home was in broad day light via heavily mined areas, under heavy fire and you say we aren't up to mark, please save us your drivel. No modern SF unit has performed such a raid into such a hostile terrain while completing their mission on time and get back in one piece, all this was child's play. Name me one force that has undertaken such a mission of such scale in recent times.

Those 40K NVGs are only given to DEVGRU, DELTA and 24th STS.

Indian leaderships needs to get their heads out of their asses and fast when it comes to process and procedures. There is no question that a Special Operations Division will come up shortly, ground work for this has been going on for while. See it wasn't easy getting here either since any proper SOD also needs a proper space command to work hand in hand. Also keep in mind the Defence communication network,only came online in 2016, things take time. Chill. You can't put a SOCOM in place without having any of the other items first in place or just for sake of putting it in place.

Who are those wise geniuses that rate Special Forces by the way? Half those BS lists have names of forces that haven't had a kill for years. Nothing but cool looking gear. sorry but I'll take one lean, i'll equipped Indian operator any day thank you. All the kitted masturbation doesn't help if one hasn't actually burst out a respectable load at an actual target in anger, in other words jelqing doesn't count.

How about you make a list of your best and I'll dismantle it for you? That should be fun.
 

pankaj nema

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You've got it completely doggystyle, perhaps you like being #Metoo. I never said Indian SF shouldn't be equipped better, I only say your Western SFs are mostly for show and apart from a few respectable units in Israel, US, UK, Russia the rest are pretty much for show, they lack experience while they sport slightly better kit. In Indian conditions as proven by recent trials most weapons fail while some are just far too expensive or didn't respond to our RFPs, Our SF works with reliable equipment with Tavors, AKs, M-4 Mods, SCAR, P-90s, Negevs. Tavors are good, they have decent optics be it MARS or MEPRO MOR sights, they both have both visible and IR lasers. Sure we need better NVG, Thermal sights (hopefully massive scale orders for Tonbo products), good plate carriers and gloves & comms. They already deploy hand launched drones. Ballistic shields are commonly seen too. Some units have started receiving new gen helmets. Sure, there is plenty of disparity over many units when it comes equipment level but surely we're getting there. Some recent ops also had DRDO unmanned armed ground vehicles taking part. Wall radars are in use along with corner shots and other such gizmos. Garuds recently got a micro drone. It's bit of patchwork over the several units but to say they are horribly out of date is silly and pure fake news, none of the other countries have a size of SF as we do. Moreso to say this has somehow prevented them from performing any missions given to them is even more fake news. Also to say that this lack of the latest kit has somehow made our soldiers illiterates during exchanges with other forces is even bigger fake news. The truth has always been that India SF has been a very adaptive force and among the most capable on the planet. Equipment level won't help me prove that point but long list of successful missions, valor under extensive fire, an ever increasing kill list proves you utterly wrong. By the way, the kill list keeps going up.

So actually it's mixed news and nothing that proves our SF units are somehow less trained in any way and some equipment deficiency doesn't change the quality of the soldier. If anything, US or other SF units learn a lot more about actual COIN and Anti terror tactics when in India while ours get more exposure to their equipment and slightly better tech.


Might want to listen to what even US operators have to say about operational tactics, clearly someone thinks our tactics were superior even in basic exchanges.

So wait, Indian SF goes several miles into Pak territory with drones watching, real time feeds to PM, NSA etc., they fuck shit up on a grand scale over 7 different locations spread over a space of 250km, all without a whisper of an attack. Enemy is caught totally off-guard over a 100 KIA including over a dozen or more regulars, many posts destroyed and the return home was in broad day light via heavily mined areas, under heavy fire and you say we aren't up to mark, please save us your drivel. No modern SF unit has performed such a raid into such a hostile terrain while completing their mission on time and get back in one piece, all this was child's play. Name me one force that has undertaken such a mission of such scale in recent times.

Those 40K NVGs are only given to DEVGRU, DELTA and 24th STS.

Indian leaderships needs to get their heads out of their asses and fast when it comes to process and procedures. There is no question that a Special Operations Division will come up shortly, ground work for this has been going on for while. See it wasn't easy getting here either since any proper SOD also needs a proper space command to work hand in hand. Also keep in mind the Defence communication network,only came online in 2016, things take time. Chill. You can't put a SOCOM in place without having any of the other items first in place or just for sake of putting it in place.

Who are those wise geniuses that rate Special Forces by the way? Half those BS lists have names of forces that haven't had a kill for years. Nothing but cool looking gear. sorry but I'll take one lean, i'll equipped Indian operator any day thank you. All the kitted masturbation doesn't help if one hasn't actually burst out a respectable load at an actual target in anger, in other words jelqing doesn't count.

How about you make a list of your best and I'll dismantle it for you? That should be fun.
You've got it completely doggystyle, perhaps you like being #Metoo. I never said Indian SF shouldn't be equipped better, I only say your Western SFs are mostly for show and apart from a few respectable units in Israel, US, UK, Russia the rest are pretty much for show, they lack experience while they sport slightly better kit. In Indian conditions as proven by recent trials most weapons fail while some are just far too expensive or didn't respond to our RFPs, Our SF works with reliable equipment with Tavors, AKs, M-4 Mods, SCAR, P-90s, Negevs. Tavors are good, they have decent optics be it MARS or MEPRO MOR sights, they both have both visible and IR lasers. Sure we need better NVG, Thermal sights (hopefully massive scale orders for Tonbo products), good plate carriers and gloves & comms. They already deploy hand launched drones. Ballistic shields are commonly seen too. Some units have started receiving new gen helmets. Sure, there is plenty of disparity over many units when it comes equipment level but surely we're getting there. Some recent ops also had DRDO unmanned armed ground vehicles taking part. Wall radars are in use along with corner shots and other such gizmos. Garuds recently got a micro drone. It's bit of patchwork over the several units but to say they are horribly out of date is silly and pure fake news, none of the other countries have a size of SF as we do. Moreso to say this has somehow prevented them from performing any missions given to them is even more fake news. Also to say that this lack of the latest kit has somehow made our soldiers illiterates during exchanges with other forces is even bigger fake news. The truth has always been that India SF has been a very adaptive force and among the most capable on the planet. Equipment level won't help me prove that point but long list of successful missions, valor under extensive fire, an ever increasing kill list proves you utterly wrong. By the way, the kill list keeps going up.

So actually it's mixed news and nothing that proves our SF units are somehow less trained in any way and some equipment deficiency doesn't change the quality of the soldier. If anything, US or other SF units learn a lot more about actual COIN and Anti terror tactics when in India while ours get more exposure to their equipment and slightly better tech.


Might want to listen to what even US operators have to say about operational tactics, clearly someone thinks our tactics were superior even in basic exchanges.

So wait, Indian SF goes several miles into Pak territory with drones watching, real time feeds to PM, NSA etc., they fuck shit up on a grand scale over 7 different locations spread over a space of 250km, all without a whisper of an attack. Enemy is caught totally off-guard over a 100 KIA including over a dozen or more regulars, many posts destroyed and the return home was in broad day light via heavily mined areas, under heavy fire and you say we aren't up to mark, please save us your drivel. No modern SF unit has performed such a raid into such a hostile terrain while completing their mission on time and get back in one piece, all this was child's play. Name me one force that has undertaken such a mission of such scale in recent times.

Those 40K NVGs are only given to DEVGRU, DELTA and 24th STS.

Indian leaderships needs to get their heads out of their asses and fast when it comes to process and procedures. There is no question that a Special Operations Division will come up shortly, ground work for this has been going on for while. See it wasn't easy getting here either since any proper SOD also needs a proper space command to work hand in hand. Also keep in mind the Defence communication network,only came online in 2016, things take time. Chill. You can't put a SOCOM in place without having any of the other items first in place or just for sake of putting it in place.

Who are those wise geniuses that rate Special Forces by the way? Half those BS lists have names of forces that haven't had a kill for years. Nothing but cool looking gear. sorry but I'll take one lean, i'll equipped Indian operator any day thank you. All the kitted masturbation doesn't help if one hasn't actually burst out a respectable load at an actual target in anger, in other words jelqing doesn't count.

How about you make a list of your best and I'll dismantle it for you? That should be fun.
People don't understand that Pakis have fortified the LOC with additional troops after our Surgical Strikes

Also helicopters make so much noise

The moment it will come close to LOC the Pakis will fire Stingers

Similarly Fixed Wing planes like C 130 are not allowed within 10 km or else enemy can Scramble ,Paradrops are Best done in War time

That is using the Fog of war

So what is left to do , cross LOC on foot
Only after proper surveillance of the Target

If we really want to escalate
Just Bomb them , And use MBRL ,and 155 mm guns
 

Unknowncommando 2

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How come Airborne is still using Aks without any rails or optics plus those brens and old helmets where Ghataks and other RR units gets modified Aks and undercut helmets. Same goes for the Marcos.
Though SF had updated their arsenal to some extent, Para Airborne is still at the early 2000s or late 90s.
29th Airborne deployed in Kashmir are using modified AKs but also Bren LMG sadly. Here you can see new Plate carriers also. Rest will get slowly. Currently helmet , AK modification , PC deliveries are taking plate in multiple Airborne units. 6th Airborne is best equipped airborne battalion among all.
 

pankaj nema

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What will be our Aim in an India Pak war

Maximum damage to Pakis in a Four or Five day time frame

Destroy their War waging assets , kill their men

That is all to it

So that is what our Troops are trained for and Equipped for

Sending SF in heavily defended areas in Peace Time for a One off attack , is a foolish thing
 

debspark90

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How come Airborne is still using Aks without any rails or optics plus those brens and old helmets where Ghataks and other RR units gets modified Aks and undercut helmets. Same goes for the Marcos.
Though SF had updated their arsenal to some extent, Para Airborne is still at the early 2000s or late 90s.
That's the irony of our idea of modernisation unfortunately. The Ghataks are using High-cut from Exfil with Arjun TI optics only because they patrol the LoC that too as a response to Pak BAT attacks and ambushes at night where as Paras and Paratroopers still somewhat behind in using these. The exfil helmet purchase was quite very logical in terms of flexibility for using NVG/Thermal sights and not clamping it on old helmets making it heavier
 
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pankaj nema

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http://www.defencenews.in/article/I...military-drill-to-enhance-coordination-581753

The latest exercise by Special Forces
----------------------------------------------------------------

The major activities conducted during this exercise included

amphibious landing operations,

air-landed operations,

heli-borne insertion of Special Forces from sea,

combat free fall by the tri-services Special Forces teams culminating in tactical follow-on operations on land, a senior official said.
 

Indrajit

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The only solution is to take the special forces outside of these archaic ommand structures aka SOCOM otherwise indian SF are doomed to languish as amongst the world’s worst equipped and trained elite units.
That’s a solution that works well within the structure of the US, I’m not sure how well it would work here. Understand that army commanders are also bureaucrats in uniform; the moment you take something away from their turf, they start undermining it immediately. Officer ranks will start avoiding postings within a SOCOM like structure because their seniors will frown on such moves and will likely be career limiting. This is also true of organisations like the NSG, you can expect similar here. We have to create a structure within the army’s traditional command but one that will also get inputs and funds from elsewhere. It will also require some very strong putting down of the foot by the political leadership, not something I’m very hopeful of.
 

rkhanna

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OT - but to demonstrate the need to to learn / analyse our forces and reorient with training.

----------------------------------

US Marines having undertaken COIN and CI ops for so long are now gearing to re train to fight Large Scale, Peer Threats.

They are going to take part in a US Marine Corp Vs Royal Marines Force Level Exercise.

======================

"
“And let’s be frank, after the march up in OIF we got into a stability, counterinsurgency op. we didn’t maneuver, we occupied the same position… didn’t have to move our (command post),” Neller said.

To that point, the four-star sent out a letter on Sept. 26, spelling out new efforts in risk-taking, free-play force-on-force training initiatives, especially at the capstone training events that units rotate to Twentynine Palms, California, at the Marine Corps Air-Ground Combat Training Center.

“The Royal Marines are going to be there this winter, they’re going to be our first (opposing force),” Neller said. And I’m talking with the Canadians to see if they’ll come down and fight us.”

“And then I’m sure the Army would love to come over and get a piece,” he said.
"

"
While there are major funding efforts buying complex new technologies and improving everything from boots to body armor to advanced robot mules and drones, some solutions are more primitive.

“We’ve got to train. Training is probably the cheapest thing we do,” Neller said. “Just going to the field and living on the ground. No (Forward Operating Base), no chow hall, no email, no phone. Just rain.”
"

"And past training leaves gaps in everything from complex electronic signals masking and detection to old-fashioned foxhole digging."

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...ish-royal-marines-in-a-force-on-force-battle/
 

Immanuel

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People don't understand that Pakis have fortified the LOC with additional troops after our Surgical Strikes

Also helicopters make so much noise

The moment it will come close to LOC the Pakis will fire Stingers

Similarly Fixed Wing planes like C 130 are not allowed within 10 km or else enemy can Scramble ,Paradrops are Best done in War time

That is using the Fog of war

So what is left to do , cross LOC on foot
Only after proper surveillance of the Target

If we really want to escalate
Just Bomb them , And use MBRL ,and 155 mm guns
True, very few SF units have the mettle, skill and ability to perform such missions without shit going south. People think being SF means wearing fancy gear, jump out of planes and rapple out of helos on their target and wham bam thank you mam. doesn't work that way. Being part of SF is actually using the right strategy & action plan at the right time and adapt as you go. Surgical strikes and cross border raids often against heavily fortified bunkers and posts with numbing retaliatory fire is a whole different ball game. These posts also have plenty of Stingers, Anti tank and anti APC weapons, armored vehicles will be easy targets. They also have NVDs, medium surveillance kit, thermal imagers etc. Which is why Ghataks backed by infantry often take part in such ops classified raids as well because they are the proverbial tip of the spear for such thrusts in contested territory. While arty, MBRL etc can cause extensive damage, these are escalations which would lead to a limited war.

Surgical strikes was a good revenge mission to keep Pak leadership on their toes. It was by no means a easy mission, the terrain being a truly exhausting challenge to begin with. Keep in mind, one of the strike team encountered portable drones on their way in. The area is also cleverly mined. Combine that with the jihadi scum in good numbers close to heavily fortified posts in their launching pads. Killing these scum required destroying some posts, relentless fire poured into the targets for over 20-30 minutes. By this time the whole border was active and re-enforcements were well on the way. With several launching pads and several posts destroyed and severe increase in counter fire meant, the task was completed and they needed to trek back into safe ground in broad day light with fire pouring down all around them.

This mission used long range Drones for advanced surveillance, body cams to relay video and audio back to HQ, NVDs, NV Binos, good optics, grenade launchers, Sniper rifles, IR beacons, Negevs, Tavors and other decent kit.
 

Immanuel

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Well we are all keen to our finest better armed, equipped, protected with the latest in cutting edge tools and believe me I will be the first to support all this but people should understand certain basics, some lack in latest kit doesn't make up for decades of among the finest histories in SF operations and successes. People can't be claiming our SF can't match modern units all the while I haven't seen a better execution of a high profile SF mission like the kind of the Surgical strikes or other raids in these times by other forces.
 
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