Indian Special Forces (archived)

[vikata]

We cannot take out Hafiz in a OBL type
Operation , because his hideout in
Muridke , Bhawalpur are well protected by
Hundreds of men

But we can bomb his HQ , that will lead to war

Hafiz is at least 50 km inside Pakistan

So our SF guys cannot just WALK up to him

The helicopters will be picked up by Radars

And what was the location of abottabad visa a vis Afghanistan border
How deep USA had to come??
I am not blaming anybody the point is if we want to become power to be reckon with at the global stage

We should have the capability to hit from anywhere and use all the possibilities rather than saying why we can't .

No offense to anybody but what's stopping us from maintaining the capability or acquiring if Israel can trace and kill hundreds of terrorists in Africa with several operational handicap we too can learn to do and achieve
Rather than explaining why we can't

 

[rishivashista13]

Big whoop. A few KMs inside Paki territory that they probably had mapped out decades ago.

The day when indian SFs can operate like US SFs launching a mission into the heart of Pakistan to take out their number 1 terrorist target or like
The French that can launch hostage rescue missions into Mali or Somalia then we can talk.

A foot launched operation is hardly worth celebrating, its the most basic of basic operations special forces can do these days. I’m yet to
See a highly complex special forces deep inside enemy’s territory yet.


This is the easy stuff these days.no amount of endurance or mental strength is going to make these soldiers perform at the same level as a slightly less mentally strong soldier with far better equipment.

Some here seem to be under the false impression that you can somehow be trained to make up for weaknesses in equipment, this simply isn’t possible in the 21st century.

Soldiers are dying becuase of this false belief.

Why to always cry....... Our SF is much capable and had done much operations deep inside enemy territory, during Operation pawan (shrilanka), operation khukri , operation meghadoot (Maldives) etc.
Equipments should me modernized but we lack funds.... We have a huge army and money provided by the tax payers are not enough to fulfill the demands of our tri forces. But still, our SF is equipped with the best we have in our country.
Why to always cry on problem... Discuss the solution.

Sent from my Redmi 4A using Tapatalk

 

[Suryavanshi]

And what was the location of abottabad visa a vis Afghanistan border
How deep USA had to come??
I am not blaming anybody the point is if we want to become power to be reckon with at the global stage

We should have the capability to hit from anywhere and use all the possibilities rather than saying why we can't .

No offense to anybody but what's stopping us from maintaining the capability or acquiring if Israel can trace and kill hundreds of terrorists in Africa with several operational handicap we too can learn to do and achieve
Rather than explaining why we can't

Rag tag African Militants vs Israeli Special force it's easy to guess who would win

 

[Darth Malgus]

https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2018/11/24/pak-armys-ssg-best-in-the-world-gen-bajwa/

Bajwa: SSG is the bestest special forces in the whooole wooorld...

Even pdf pakis don't come up with nonsense like this.

 

[Indrajit]

And what was the location of abottabad visa a vis Afghanistan border
How deep USA had to come??
I am not blaming anybody the point is if we want to become power to be reckon with at the global stage

We should have the capability to hit from anywhere and use all the possibilities rather than saying why we can't .

No offense to anybody but what's stopping us from maintaining the capability or acquiring if Israel can trace and kill hundreds of terrorists in Africa with several operational handicap we too can learn to do and achieve
Rather than explaining why we can't

It’s not a fair comparison . US capabilities are much more than ours, there’s little to be gained by not acknowledging that. Also OBL wasn’t defended and Pakistanis pretended they didn’t know anything about it. US commanders had back up plans to send in F-15’s if the mission was threatened. Not so with Hafiz Saeed who is protected like a national leader. The only way that Hafiz Saeed can be taken out is by a missile or air strike which would constitute massive escalation or by taking him out in a covert operation using hired assets primarily.

 

[captscooby81]

Off topic to this thread ..But prof hafiz chacha is roaming freely like any other citizen in commercial airline .Cant we bribe a cabincrew to spike his water with cyanide

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

MARCOS .......................................................................

 

[abingdonboy]

MARCOS .......................................................................
View attachment 29778

Oh look, equipped worse than most developed nation’s SWAT teams.

 

[abingdonboy]

Why to always cry....... Our SF is much capable and had done much operations deep inside enemy territory, during Operation pawan (shrilanka), operation khukri , operation meghadoot (Maldives) etc.
Equipments should me modernized but we lack funds.... We have a huge army and money provided by the tax payers are not enough to fulfill the demands of our tri forces. But still, our SF is equipped with the best we have in our country.
Why to always cry on problem... Discuss the solution.

Sent from my Redmi 4A using Tapatalk

These are all excuses. $42bn/year on defence and they can’t spend even $200m on special forces?

It’s a complete myth that this is about money anymore. It’s about MENTALITY. Indian civilian and military leaders do not think strategically, they can only seem to think tactically.

In all powerful nations the nation’s SF have a direct link to their seniormost executive (president or PM). Think about how many layers there are between MARCOS/PARA/GARUD and the PM, easily 5-6. This highlights the low importance special forces are given in the Indian military and security landscape. They are STILL only treated as elite infantry not as strategic assets.

The move to create a dedicated SOCOM is the only prescription I can give and let’s see how that pans out. Hopefully it will be commanded by a SF officer only and will have its own budget with special powers to purchase on a need basis outside of the regular archaic and lengthy procurement rules.

Outside of that I don’t see any hope, the senior leadership of India’s massively military remain ignorant about these matters and only focused on their bit of the picture. CAS only ever talks about fighter jets, army about guns and tanks, navy chief about boats. Obviously SFs are not even in their minds.

I had hoped Pathankot, surgical strikes and Myanmar ops would have changed these petty and outdated mindsets but it seems 2-3 years later and nothing has changed.

Why am I critical? Becuase India CAN and NEEDS to do better, the current situation is shameful and worrying.

 

[rkhanna]

IMO - we dont even need to follow the American Model. Their budget and needs will always outstrip other countries (forget ours) but other interesting models in first world countries are that of Britain, France and Germany - Budgets similar to ours

BUT the best example we could look at (for emerging economy countries are)

1. Russia - their Special Operations Command has come a LONG way in 10 years
2. Poland - The flexibility and range of their SOF are amazing. Both DevGru and Delta look at GROM as an equal
3. South Korea - they too have a crazy neighbor on their border
4. Philippines -

 

[mayfair]

I have nothing to back this up, only hunch and based on past reports. But it seems that the Indian neta-babu establishment is determined to put a glass ceiling on the capabilities and resources of our military.

This was especially true during the UPA time, where the idea was to have enough defensive capability to deter both Cheen and Shitistan, but not enough to carry out prolonged or frequent offensive operations. This is why systems such as C130J, C17, P8i etc. were inducted in droves, but theatre-specific offensive systems- Artillery, AAMs, rockets, A2G munitions etc were always deferred.

The neta-babu setup has always been wary and contemptuous of the military. Somewhere in the back of their minds addled by the colonial setup, they have this morbid fear of a military coup or a parallel power centre. Hence, they lose no opportunity to remind the military as to who's the boss.

I may be treading into the tin foil territory, but this would explain the lack of emphasis on critical equipment such as proper service arms and especially sniper rifles. Our neta-babu do not see snipers as a tool against Pakistan, they probably fear highly trained snipers could be weapon that can easily turn inwards

 

[abingdonboy]

I have nothing to back this up, only hunch and based on past reports. But it seems that the Indian neta-babu establishment is determined to put a glass ceiling on the capabilities and resources of our military.

This was especially true during the UPA time, where the idea was to have enough defensive capability to deter both Cheen and Shitistan, but not enough to carry out prolonged or frequent offensive operations. This is why systems such as C130J, C17, P8i etc. were inducted in droves, but theatre-specific offensive systems- Artillery, AAMs, rockets, A2G munitions etc were always deferred.

The neta-babu setup has always been wary and contemptuous of the military. Somewhere in the back of their minds addled by the colonial setup, they have this morbid fear of a military coup or a parallel power centre. Hence, they lose no opportunity to remind the military as to who's the boss.

I may be treading into the tin foil territory, but this would explain the lack of emphasis on critical equipment such as proper service arms and especially sniper rifles. Our neta-babu do not see snipers as a tool against Pakistan, they probably fear highly trained snipers could be weapon that can easily turn inwards

Nah, Hanlon’s razor- do not attribute to malice what you can attribute to incompetence.

These babus and metas don’t even know the difference between a MP5 and a AK47 or the NSG and the Military Police. You think they know what a sniper rifle is? They probably just think it’s what an INSAS is.

They are disinterested and ignorant about these matters. Security matters don’t even feature in the top 100 priorities for them.

I’d actually be comforted if I thought there was some grand strategy at work here but instead it is just the same old story- incompetence, red tape, indifference and stupidity.

 

[Anikastha]

Nah, Hanlon’s razor- do not attribute to malice what you can attribute to incompetence.

These babus and metas don’t even know the difference between a MP5 and a AK47 or the NSG and the Military Police. You think they know what a sniper rifle is? They probably just think it’s what an INSAS is.

They are disinterested and ignorant about these matters. Security matters don’t even feature in the top 100 priorities for them.

I’d actually be comforted if I thought there was some grand strategy at work here but instead it is just the same old story- incompetence, red tape, indifference and stupidity.

All babus in Ministry of Defence block are civilian officers. How are you expecting civilians to understand this diff.

 

[Immanuel]

No, no and no again. This isn’t 1980 where “Rambos” can scream “commando” and execute an operation with a knife clenched in their teeth.

Special forces operations of today are about clinical execution. This is NOT where Indian special forces can be counted on to be on par with a western unit.

There’s a reason why the ENTIRE world is following the path of the top units in the West. No one is deluding themselves that having fiercesome warriors alone will make any difference in the modern battlefield.

If it was that easy everyone would do it. The “Indian model” is adopted by exactly nobody except Indian units. The Indian model is nothing but an excuse for having sh!t equipment and training standards.

Surgical strikes of the last years prove that SF can cross into enemy territory without a whisper.clinically fuck shit up and get back with hardly an injury. We used drones, good comms, diversion, NVGs and all for such ops. So what is your problem? Name one Sf unit that has performed such a raid while the entire Western front looks on at seven different locations, again Hint, no body in recent times. The kill list during that night was well over hundred. Raids into Myanmar were easier and each time over 4 dozen KIA. Besides, these are raids we hear about. There plenty which we don't hear about.

The reason why the enemy fears our SF, ghataks, regular infantry is not because of some mighty hammer. The soldier is the hammer. I repeat, show me today a force that works in the kind of hostile environment our boys work in against a very well equipped, funded and very well trained network of militant organizations backed by the Pak military. Hint, there isn't one.

All the SF capability in the world doesn't help when the overarching strategy isn't sound. The West has been in Afghan for nearly two decades and they are no closer to meet any kind of a goal now than they were nearly 20 years ago. Equipment doesn't win wars, it is a execution of a sound strategy using innovative tactics and clear cut plan after end of hostilities that wins wars. Technology gives a good advantage.

Kit will improve when the process improves and the right kit can bought at the right time when the priorities are clear. there is very high amount of floatiness in the top brass in all 3 services and the procurement procedures are shit. MOD is slow and yes top brass is complicit but procedures and process is the number 1 issues facing the forces.

 

[Indrajit]

Nah, Hanlon’s razor- do not attribute to malice what you can attribute to incompetence.

These babus and metas don’t even know the difference between a MP5 and a AK47 or the NSG and the Military Police. You think they know what a sniper rifle is? They probably just think it’s what an INSAS is.

They are disinterested and ignorant about these matters. Security matters don’t even feature in the top 100 priorities for them.

I’d actually be comforted if I thought there was some grand strategy at work here but instead it is just the same old story- incompetence, red tape, indifference and stupidity.

I’m more worried that that army’s commanders don’t know how SF’s are to be used and don’t seem to much care beyond what you have said as some kind of elite infantrymen. Forget the babus and the netas, the SF’s lack of funding is because they are not that high up on the army’s own priority list. Everyone’s guarding their piece of turf, no one is that keen on the SF’s alone, at least until the sh*t hits the fan when every commander expects the impossible from these guys.

 

[abingdonboy]

I’m more worried that that army’s commanders don’t know how SF’s are to be used and don’t seem to much care beyond what you have said as some kind of elite infantrymen. Forget the babus and the netas, the SF’s lack of funding is because they are not that high up on the army’s own priority list. Everyone’s guarding their piece of turf, no one is that keen on the SF’s alone, at least until the sh*t hits the fan when every commander expects the impossible from these guys.

Exactly this and I left it out in my comment, just as alarming is that the military commanders just don’t understand special forces, they only view them as specialised infantry.

The only solution is to take the special forces outside of these archaic ommand structures aka SOCOM otherwise indian SF are doomed to languish as amongst the world’s worst equipped and trained elite units.

 

[Immanuel]

Big whoop. A few KMs inside Paki territory that they probably had mapped out decades ago.

The day when indian SFs can operate like US SFs launching a mission into the heart of Pakistan to take out their number 1 terrorist target or like
The French that can launch hostage rescue missions into Mali or Somalia then we can talk.

A foot launched operation is hardly worth celebrating, its the most basic of basic operations special forces can do these days. I’m yet to
See a highly complex special forces deep inside enemy’s territory yet.


This is the easy stuff these days.no amount of endurance or mental strength is going to make these soldiers perform at the same level as a slightly less mentally strong soldier with far better equipment.

Some here seem to be under the false impression that you can somehow be trained to make up for weaknesses in equipment, this simply isn’t possible in the 21st century.

Soldiers are dying becuase of this false belief.

Haha for Op Gernomo wouldn't have been possible without Indian base intel. since 2001 i.e for a 11 years they were looking for Osama in caves and mountains, what happen to all the technology then? or when a helo crashed in Afghan in 2011 when 31 SEAL were killed, really for what? Over reliance on Helos over wide spaces with lawless regions. Technology, equipment and most importantly strategy,tactics play even more important roles. Equipping forces for the reason of equipping them isn't enough. While a lot of new gen kit can be made standard, the focus should always remain on raising men who can fight regardless of the circumstances and while the Western countries can focus on combating terror and enemies far from home. We are busy with two nuclear armed neighbors and the dynamics couldn't be more different. I prefer, don't copy, innovate instead. Our hostile realities are a lot different. Good uniform, helmet, comms, rifles, optics, NVGs, thermals, gloves, kneepads, shoes are all the need for all troops not just SF. The French don't really know the ass end of Sf operations in comparison to India. People seem to think hopping a helo flight into god forsaken dessert in Mali in Special. Also it was luck they found a hostage. In Mumbai alone we rescued over 600 which played out on a much larger scale than Paris.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/06/french-special-forces-rescue-hostage-mali

Such insignificant feats like making a raid or rescue in a far away land is child's play. What are your feelings about OP Cactus or Op kukhri. Such successful missions put most other forces to shame. So please chill. Indian Sf is fine, getting better everday, slowly but there is no question that they continue to live upto the standard set over years, no dilution in quality of men out there. They still die while fighting having killed and having saved lives or further access such as int he case of Pathankot. To call such valiant men among the worst SF units in the world is absolutely disrespectful, and you should be fucking ashamed for suggesting this.

It was RAW specific intel that he could be close to Islamabad ideally next to military area that was the trigger to everything after.

Also to believe that an op like that would be done without Indian know how or involvement is ludicrous. Had the shit gone south, a short period of US/Pak hostitlies were bound to happen and India would have spill overs. Also keep in mind there were several reports of very active western front those days. A US nuke sub arrives in Goa couple of weeks before the Op, a couple of C-17s lands in srinagar.. While We directly buy the entire story, there is a lot of misdirection in such Ops. Besides why would any one fly over from Jalalabad one of the hottest most watched airfields for Taliban observers and then fly over 90 mins in hostile airspace while the same trip from just LOC is only around 20 mins from certain areas.

 

[abingdonboy]

Haha for Op Gernomo wouldn't have been possible without Indian base intel. since 2001 i.e for a 11 years they were looking for Osama in caves and mountains, what happen to all the technology then? or when a helo crashed in Afghan in 2011 when 31 SEAL were killed, really for what? Over reliance on Helos over wide spaces with lawless regions. Technology, equipment and most importantly strategy,tactics play even more important roles. Equipping forces for the reason of equipping them isn't enough. While a lot of new gen kit can be made standard, the focus should always remain on raising men who can fight regardless of the circumstances and while the Western countries can focus on combating terror and enemies far from home. We are busy with two nuclear armed neighbors and the dynamics couldn't be more different. I prefer, don't copy, innovate instead. Our hostile realities are a lot different. Good uniform, helmet, comms, rifles, optics, NVGs, thermals, gloves, kneepads, shoes are all the need for all troops not just SF. The French don't really know the ass end of Sf operations in comparison to India. People seem to think hopping a helo flight into god forsaken dessert in Mali in Special. Also it was luck they found a hostage. In Mumbai alone we rescued over 600 which played out on a much larger scale than Paris.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/06/french-special-forces-rescue-hostage-mali

Such insignificant feats like making a raid or rescue in a far away land is child's play. What are your feelings about OP Cactus or Op kukhri. Such successful missions put most other forces to shame. So please chill. Indian Sf is fine, getting better everday, slowly but there is no question that they continue to live upto the standard set over years, no dilution in quality of men out there.

It was RAW specific intel that he could be close to Islamabad ideally next to military area that was the trigger to everything after.

Also to believe that an op like that would be done without Indian know how or involvement is ludicrous. Had the shit gone south, a short period of US/Pak hostitlies were bound to happen and India would have spill overs. Also keep in mind there were several reports of very active western front those days. A US nuke sub arrives in Goa couple of weeks before the Op, a couple of C-17s lands in srinagar.. While We directly buy the entire story, there is a lot of misdirection in such Ops. Besides why would any one fly over from Jalalabad one of the hottest most watched airfields for Taliban observers and then fly over 90 mins in hostile airspace while the same trip from just LOC is only around 20 mins from certain areas.

You’re picking and choosing. On the whole western SFs are in another league with capabilities indian SFs can only dream of.

I’d describe Indian SFs as traditionally competent only as in they are good at the old school tactics of long range on foot egress/LRRP, setting up OPs etc. But in the modern age of rapid swift and clinical operations they are utterly outclassed.

The breadth of the missions and capabilities western SFs can undertake is vast, Indian SFs remain comfortable with just their core skills but the nature of conflict has moved well beyond this.

Indian SFs are still stuck in a Vietnam era idea of combat, everyone else is in 2018.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

PUBG?



..................................

Bro..

Stick to flying and playing PUBG in your free time.

You are hitting your head against the wall here trying to make a point.

Come to this thread once a month to see some pictures.

I have done this long ago.

Advice from a fellow aviator...Happy landings.

 

[Immanuel]

You’re picking and choosing. On the whole western SFs are in another league with capabilities indian SFs can only dream of.

I’d describe Indian SFs as traditionally competent only as in they are good at the old school tactics of long range on foot egress/LRRP, setting up OPs etc. But in the modern age of rapid swift and clinical operations they are utterly outclassed.

The breadth of the missions and capabilities western SFs can undertake is vast, Indian SFs remain comfortable with just their core skills but the nature of conflict has moved well beyond this.

Indian SFs are still stuck in a Vietnam era idea of combat, everyone else is in 2018.

You wouldn't know the meaning of clinical if it hit you in the face. You're the same person suggesting dropping a 500 pounder while a SF combat controller perched up on a hill calls it in on a jihadi sniper hut is more clinical than a silent whispered execution in the dead of the night. In such as case I am sorry we have to disagree on the meaning of it. Sure, Indian SF dreams of better equipment but that doesn't stop them from being among the most well trained and motivated troops on God's green earth.

Your feelings don't matter. Facts are simple, our SF have been a lot more successful in their ops and they continue to use the tradition of good soldering while slowly upgrading to whats new (depends entirely on military and MOD bureaucracy).

Also, where do you come up with this garbage? What modern threat isn't the SF adapted to, please explain your garbage? And don't just compare pictures of gung ho SF units from across the world, many of these units don't have a kill to their name for years by the way.