Indian Special Forces (archived)

[DivineHeretic]

5% of GDP on defence in democratic India? You’re dreaming. Every year under these “nationalists” defence budget as a % of GDP has been dropping to reach a low of 1.6% today- about the same as just before the 1962 war with China.


I refuse to accept this is about funds anymore. To equip the entire Indian SFs to levels of top units in the West would less than the cost of a SINGLE Rafale.

No, this is about ETHOS and PHILOSOPHY. That the 3 SFs remain in their conventional service command structures means they get no special focus and certainly
Don’t receive the kind of attention a strategic asset deserves.

Look at the AF’s seniormost brass, they are all pilots, do you really expect them to have a clue about special forces operations? Same story for the sailors of the Navy or the cavalry officers of the Army.

There’s a reason why special forces in India are in the state they are and it’s the same old story- red tape, ignorance and backwards outdated thinking.

And I will actually take this further and say NO indian special forces are no longer even close to the best trained special forces soldiers in the world. You cannot be an effective SF today unless you have the best equipment and train to utilise it. Look at how Western SF operate- they conduct all of their operations at night becuase they have the NOD tech to do so. Indian SFs are hampered by their capabilities and thus cannot
Possibly be as effective as special forces from those units. Technology enhances capabilities, the time when you could overcome this with better training and “harder” men is long gone. Today 9/10 Indian SFs will get smoked by their Western counterparts in most scenarios.

SOCOM is the ONLY hope India has to get some decently equipped special forces soldiers.

The Indian SFs are arguably at par with NATO SOFs wrt endurance, mental strength, resolve, and perhaps even weapons proficiency. But on the whole, they are barely classifiable as SOFs.

Tactics are pitiful, network integration absolutely absent, Electronic warfare, Electronic warfare support non-existent. They cannot support EW/ELINT operations as they are.

The soldiers are essentially expected to fix a 80% handicap with sheer will and determination i.e. they are expected to die, a lot, and hopefully someone gets lucky enough to carry out the operation. God help us if its a surgical network intrusion or similar action

 

[IndiaRising]

Just look at the shoddy way soldiers from both countries are conducting these exercises. Both sides don’t give a crap about these exercises. This is just for media publicity.

 

[IndiaRising]

The Indian SFs are arguably at par with NATO SOFs wrt endurance, mental strength, resolve, and perhaps even weapons proficiency. But on the whole, they are barely classifiable as SOFs.

Tactics are pitiful, network integration absolutely absent, Electronic warfare, Electronic warfare support non-existent. They cannot support EW/ELINT operations as they are.

The soldiers are essentially expected to fix a 80% handicap with sheer will and determination i.e. they are expected to die, a lot, and hopefully someone gets lucky enough to carry out the operation. God help us if its a surgical network intrusion or similar action

If that was the case, Porkis or cheeni bandars would have attacked long back.

 

[abingdonboy]

Same crappy equipment and crappy drills led to them crossing LoC and taking out a crapload of porks in 2016. I’d like to see Western SFs do that without any of their tech support. Gaand phat jayegi.

Big whoop. A few KMs inside Paki territory that they probably had mapped out decades ago.

The day when indian SFs can operate like US SFs launching a mission into the heart of Pakistan to take out their number 1 terrorist target or like
The French that can launch hostage rescue missions into Mali or Somalia then we can talk.

A foot launched operation is hardly worth celebrating, its the most basic of basic operations special forces can do these days. I’m yet to
See a highly complex special forces deep inside enemy’s territory yet.

The Indian SFs are arguably at par with NATO SOFs wrt endurance, mental strength, resolve

This is the easy stuff these days.no amount of endurance or mental strength is going to make these soldiers perform at the same level as a slightly less mentally strong soldier with far better equipment.

Some here seem to be under the false impression that you can somehow be trained to make up for weaknesses in equipment, this simply isn’t possible in the 21st century.

Soldiers are dying becuase of this false belief.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Same crappy equipment and crappy drills led to them crossing LoC and taking out a crapload of porks in 2016.

You are hitting Pakistan, not Israel or Russia.

I’d like to see Western SFs do that without any of their tech support. Gaand phat jayegi.

They are even capable of abducting the terrorist if they locate it which we can't.

 

[IndiaRising]

Big whoop. A few KMs inside Paki territory that they probably had mapped out decades ago.

The day when indian SFs can operate like US SFs launching a mission into the heart of Pakistan to take out their number 1 terrorist target or like
The French that can launch hostage rescue missions into Mali or Somalia then we can talk.

A foot launched operation is hardly worth celebrating, its the most basic of basic operations special forces can do these days. I’m yet to
See a highly complex special forces deep inside enemy’s territory yet.


This is the easy stuff these days.no amount of endurance or mental strength is going to make these soldiers perform at the same level as a slightly less mentally strong soldier with far better equipment.

Some here seem to be under the false impression that you can somehow be trained to make up for weaknesses in equipment, this simply isn’t possible in the 21st century.

Soldiers are dying becuase of this false belief.

Hain, taking out ragtag jihadis and going up against another professional army is a big difference even if it is a couple of km. LoC is the worlds most militarized zone along with Korean border. Anything can go wrong in that operation.

P.S- it is a myth that Navy Seals conducted that operation without paki army knowing about it. Read seymour hersh’s book the killing of osama bin laden.

 

[IndiaRising]

You are hitting Pakistan, not Israel or Russia.

They are even capable of abducting the terrorist if they locate it which we can't.

No all they do is drone the terrorist. They won’t send in any SF for such operations.

Yeah we are taking out another professional army, not ragtag Chechen or Palestinian rebels

 

[Indx TechStyle]

No all they do is drone the terrorist. They won’t send in any SF for such operations.

Yeah we are taking out another professional army, not ragtag Chechen or Palestinian rebels

At outskirts again, not far away from frontiers.

 

[IndiaRising]

At outskirts again, not far away from frontiers.

We have to stop watching bollywood movies where we exPect Para SF to go attack Rawalpindi GHQ. That is a declaration of war

 

[Indx TechStyle]

We have to stop watching bollywood movies where we exPect Para SF to go attack Rawalpindi GHQ. That is a declaration of war

At the first place, the gap between Indian & Pakistani militaries ultimately prevents any Pakistani repurcussion even in difficult situations. Year on year, Pak waging a war on India becomes less likely.
Second, we are talking about equipping SF with better stuff.

We are likely to win against most countries because of our size and our manpower & inventory acting as our canon fodder. And if Quantity can be backed by quality, Indian forces will be able carry out even expeditions efficiently.
For Pakistan again, its a small country in outskirts, struggling with plenty of problems to deal with. Just because its politically assertive against India, won't make striking inside it a big achievement.

 

[pankaj nema]

So? We are talking about special forces here bro.

What’s utterly mind blowing to me is how comparable regular units are now to India’s Special forces.

Take away the Tavor and not even the most diligent defence enthusiast will be able to differentiate between a SF operator and RR/Ghatak these days- NO excuses for this nonsense.

In every other military special forces are a clear step above regulars and 5-10 years ahead in terms of equipment. It seems that whilst infantry modernisation has happened, special forces have stayed still for a decade now.

In 2010 Indian SFs were 20 years behind their western counterparts, today it is about 30 years, there’s no justification for this. A few units getting some very modest upgrades doesn’t change this reality.



This just highlights the moronic nature of those that make these procurement decisions.


You don’t buy a high cut helmet unless you have the integrated comns to go with them, the ONLY point you have a high cut over a regular ACH/ECH is to accommodate the integrated noise cancelling headsets- not ONE unit in India has them and yet high cuts are now being seen? Mindless imitation just makes everyone look stupid and incompetent.

Then you have the added absurdity of having high cuts with no rails and not even NVG mounts.

These are not things worth celebrating, it showcases the worst aspects of Indian defence planning and unprofessional nature that is infecting even their most elite units.



SAG is easily the best equipped unit in India but they are still not quite of the top tier CT level seen in the West.

That NSG can modernise under MHA and the MOD’s Special Units cannot says a lot.



Apparently CCS cleared it a few weeks back but no need since then.

SOCOM is the ONLY hope now. These idiots in the senior command positions of the IA/IAF/IN aren’t interested in their special units.

Are you aware that US Special forces have
One Lakh Dollars Worth of EQUIPMENT on
Each one of the them

It is very easy to criticise but can we afford such Equipment and the Training that Goes with It

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Are you aware that US Special forces have
One Lakh Dollars Worth of EQUIPMENT on
Each one of the them

It is very easy to criticise but can we afford such Equipment and the Training that Goes with It

Not the equipment of that class but at least viable upgradation could make them less vulnerable to casualty.

 

[pankaj nema]

Not the equipment of that class but at least viable upgradation could make them less vulnerable to casualty.

In Indian context that is the Terrain in which we Have to fight on , our SF are well prepared and equipped

Even the SSG , which the Pakis claim to
Be the Best in the world have been Beaten badly by our Regular Infantry soldiers

After the Surgical Strikes , SSG has made many attempts along with BAT teams
On our posts

Only a few of them succeed , which are later avenged

Therefore now they resort to Sniper attacks

The Surgical Strikes and the Conflict there after has Badly Demoralised the Pak Army

For That the whole credit goes to our SF

They have achieved a Moral Superiority over the enemy which they are unable to forget

 

[pankaj nema]

At the first place, the gap between Indian & Pakistani militaries ultimately prevents any Pakistani repurcussion even in difficult situations. Year on year, Pak waging a war on India becomes less likely.
Second, we are talking about equipping SF with better stuff.

We are likely to win against most countries because of our size and our manpower & inventory acting as our canon fodder. And if Quantity can be backed by quality, Indian forces will be able carry out even expeditions efficiently.
For Pakistan again, its a small country in outskirts, struggling with plenty of problems to deal with. Just because its politically assertive against India, won't make striking inside it a big achievement.

Both India Pakistan and India China Conflicts will be decided by Firepower

That is how many Lakh Tonnes of Explosives can you drop on the Enemy

That is why China backed out of Doklam

And that is why Bajwa wants peace with India

 

[pankaj nema]

Not the equipment of that class but at least viable upgradation could make them less vulnerable to casualty.

The limitations of Technology have been seen in Afghanistan and Iraq

Where Inspite of Trillions of dollars and the Best Technology , US has lost to IEDs and AK 47 and RPG s

 

[Suryavanshi]

Not the equipment of that class but at least viable upgradation could make them less vulnerable to casualty.

This isn't possible until Private companies join the game.
We can't expect the quota chap government organisation to do such level of R&D and manufacturing.
We are slow but it's happening in the from of MKU, Tonbo, GRSE etc

 

[Indx TechStyle]

In Indian context that is the Terrain in which we Have to fight on , our SF are well prepared and equipped

Well, our terrian is difficult. And I'm talking about a properly equipped crew with every backup and Indian SF has I don't think anything additional than a new gun.
For Pakistan, I gave reason to reject.

 

[vikata]

Our NSA is a field operation guy, ruling party celebrate itself as a true nationalist party.
I can understand chidambaram statement about our inability to take out Hafiz Sayeed, but the issue is have we made amend after that it's almost a decade now.
With rising economy our assets will be located far and wide, do we have the wherewithal to protect them and take care of the threat located far and wide.

It's not the regular unit who will be always dispatched at the shortest of notice, it will be invariably the special forces, are we making them capable enough if not is their anybody who can explain these shortcomings to the executive of the country
It's really disappointing to say the least. The level of future planning in our forces
It's totally absent to say the least

 

[pankaj nema]

Our NSA is a field operation guy, ruling party celebrate itself as a true nationalist party.
I can understand chidambaram statement about our inability to take out Hafiz Sayeed, but the issue is have we made amend after that it's almost a decade now.
With rising economy our assets will be located far and wide, do we have the wherewithal to protect them and take care of the threat located far and wide.

It's not the regular unit who will be always dispatched at the shortest of notice, it will be invariably the special forces, are we making them capable enough if not is their anybody who can explain these shortcomings to the executive of the country
It's really disappointing to say the least. The level of future planning in our forces
It's totally absent to say the least

We cannot take out Hafiz in a OBL type
Operation , because his hideout in
Muridke , Bhawalpur are well protected by
Hundreds of men

But we can bomb his HQ , that will lead to war

Hafiz is at least 50 km inside Pakistan

So our SF guys cannot just WALK up to him

The helicopters will be picked up by Radars

 

[pankaj nema]

The best way to hurt Pakistan is attacking
POK , there are One lakh paki soldiers in PoK

Kill as many as possible

Pok is disputed territory

We can do anything

Artillery , MBRL , Air force , Missiles
Everything must be used