Indian Special Forces (archived)

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Can someone post about this uploading and downloading technology by masked communication network used by SF operators to transfer messages and multimedia because this has been claimed in the recent book launched on Surgical strike.It says the team commanders had such technology.

 

[aditya g]

Wow, an unbelievable amount of detail shared.

- what is the is the difference between Mujahids and Militants as referred to by the strike team?

- a commando mentioned that they did not a way to know the time, and it was passed via radio. why didnt they carry watches?

From the show:-

Pakistani Brigadier could have been targeted..permission was asked but denied since other teams were not in position.The Brigadier had left by the time the teams reached.(wow this is gutsy..killing of such a high ranking officer could have triggered a big issue)

Pakis used to fire every 60 mins because they wanted to show that they are alert.(cowards haha)

Teams had 8 members with 3 demo guys in each team.

8 days ago recce started...2 days and night for planning.

Infiltration was scattered....from 3 days ago to 1 day before.

Dropped to LOC by civil cars and some army vehicles with lights off.

35 kgs carried by each operator.

UAVs..the own troops didnt know that own UAVs were monitoring.

Ex NSG SAG guys in team too.

70-80 pakis killed.

Team commander talked about being ruthless.

They had used the same infil exfil route many times before.Bad luck that mine went off.

More officers and JCOs incuded in team.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I found out every operator to be more smarter and knowledgeable than i thought they would be.Very smart and knowledgeable of any outcome and how to handle that.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Wow, an unbelievable amount of detail shared.

- what is the is the difference between Mujahids and Militants as referred to by the strike team?

- a commando mentioned that they did not a way to know the time, and it was passed via radio. why didnt they carry watches?

Mujahid force is like out territorial Army.They connect the regular Pakis to the terrorists..i mean the link.(track suits guys according to the operator)

I didnt understand your second question or such a scene..please reply with the time this was said.

 

[Moroboshi]

At numerous points in the video the operators were saying that they could hear the UAVs above. Would it not be heard by pakis as well?

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

At numerous points in the video the operators were saying that they could hear the UAVs above. Would it not be heard by pakis as well?

Ya but what can they do if its out of range for their weapons and in the night its hard to spot a UAV.

I dont think they have AA weapons in the post.

 

[abingdonboy]

That being said I truly believe that the SOP and training manual of the NSG is not a perfect fit for COIN . They are a CT/HRT unit. Unless a high value hostages are taken NSG may not be the optimal resource.

NSG wouldn't be used for everyday COIN like RR does but for those occasional urban assualts/hostage rescue operations that come up every now and then. We have seen in the last few years a number of high profile incidents terrorists taking hostages or hiding in urban terrain requiring intervention units (PARA (SF) until now). This is where NSG would be employed, they have the training, expertise, equipment and readiness, I'd say it was long overdue that they were tasked for these operations in J&K.

This is not a smear on the capabilities of PARA (SF) but it's hardto deny that the NSG is a league above them when it comes to HR/urban assualt, the GoI has invested a LOT of money in NSG, it is only right that there is some application of this and it would also help the NSG's operators to get some real world experience.

 

[abingdonboy]

How are we going to maintain a Special Forces standard unit if it is going to see only 1-2 CT ops in a year?

It's worse than that bro, other than post-blast/bomb evidence collection the NSG's "real world" experience is limited to 1-2 missions every 7-8 years. Pathankot was the first operation the NSG had taken part in since 26/11! Given the deputational nature of the NSG that means every 3 years the NSG is filled with entirely new men, all "green" and in need of real world exposure, by now 30-50% of the men that took part in Pathankot have already returned to their parent units.

 

[abingdonboy]

As a layman, i wonder why is NSG not there in first place ?

As we can see, the Army is VERY resistent to their presence in the state and frnakly this is nothing but more petty inter-service rivalry. Someone in the MoD/GoI needs to remind the IA brass that they exist to serve the nation's interests, not the Indian army's interests.

 

[abingdonboy]

To further expand on why NSG should be allowed in the state:

(pictured in Kashmir but not used so far)



As they say a picture is worth a 1000 words, no other unit in India has these kinds of vehicles, to have them (and their highly trained assualters) sat idle because of pathetic inter-service rivalry is nothing short of criminal.


Fact is, the NSG is primed and ready for the task, they should be given a chance to prove themselves, I have no doubt the PARA (SF) guys would welcome this- it is only the senior IA brass that would oppose this.

 

[Indian Sniper.001]

As we can see, the Army is VERY resistent to their presence in the state and frnakly this is nothing but more petty inter-service rivalry.

I have no doubt the PARA (SF) guys would welcome this

I know a retd. Col, a former SG operative who was criticizing the involvement of NSG in Pathankot, and was saying that Ajit Doval and ilk are trying to demean the IA, by bringing in civilian force involvement, though the IA had the means to tackle the situation. I'm sure this sentiment is huge in the IA, thus the resistance.

 

[rkhanna]

Turf wars need to be nixed in the bud ASAP. Previous spillage of IB vs RAW vs Central/State Police Intelligence VS MI (TSD etc) has already done plenty of damage over the past twenty years.

Turf wars amongst shooters will make it worse. A Centralized SOCOM with dedicated Inteligence flowing in seemlessly from both Internal / external agencies is the need of the hour. It puts everybody on the same playing field and removes decision bias. we ARE on the same team.

 

[aditya g]

I know a retd. Col, a former SG operative who was criticizing the involvement of NSG in Pathankot, and was saying that Ajit Doval and ilk are trying to demean the IA, by bringing in civilian force involvement, though the IA had the means to tackle the situation. I'm sure this sentiment is huge in the IA, thus the resistance.

Seriously, the good colonel needs to be reminded that NSG 51 and 52 SAGs were created by transferring 2 companies from Special Group.

NSG SAGs are an Army unit under an official civilian guise. Officers from all branches of the army serve there and many come from or go to ParaSF

 

[Jay99]

From the show:-

Pakistani Brigadier could have been targeted..permission was asked but denied since other teams were not in position.The Brigadier had left by the time the teams reached.(wow this is gutsy..killing of such a high ranking officer could have triggered a big issue)

Pakis used to fire every 60 mins because they wanted to show that they are alert.(cowards haha)

Teams had 8 members with 3 demo guys in each team.

8 days ago recce started...2 days and night for planning.

Infiltration was scattered....from 3 days ago to 1 day before.

Dropped to LOC by civil cars and some army vehicles with lights off.

35 kgs carried by each operator.

UAVs..the own troops didnt know that own UAVs were monitoring.

Ex NSG SAG guys in team too.

70-80 pakis killed.

Team commander talked about being ruthless.

They had used the same infil exfil route many times before.Bad luck that mine went off.

More officers and JCOs incuded in team.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I found out every operator to be more smarter and knowledgeable than i thought they would be.Very smart and knowledgeable of any outcome and how to handle that.

Where does it say paki brigadier could have been targeted?

 

[rkhanna]

I found out every operator to be more smarter and knowledgeable than i thought they would be.Very smart and knowledgeable of any outcome and how to handle that.

In the 90s the Carnegie endowment had done a study of American SOF forces (the study has been extrapolated to any SOF type soldier world over) - the study showed that the average SOF soldier under SOCOM/JSOC had a 135+ IQ (i.e borderline genius level)

SOF soldiers apart from having physical conditioning to rival that of Olympic level athletes learned Multiple Languages, Computer systems, Explosives handling/disarmament / Combat medicine / Handling Nuclear weapons / Building / destroying bridges and structures, Civilian administration, propoganda, Electronics (communication) etc - basically they learn new things everyday in a compressed format that would take undergaduate students 4 years to learn.

Basically SOF soldiers by nature are high functioning sociopathic Polymaths - it is this trait that allows them to function and flourish and do extreme problem solving (with life and death consequences) in high stress situations

How do SOF soldiers get to be more intelligent - Simple - Selection - The only way to get through brutal selection is not physical prowess or skill but SELF MOTIVATION pure and simple. Self motivation is the primary trait of more intelligent people.

Have the study somewhere while scan and share it if i find. I have shown it to a few ex SF relatives of mine and they all unanimously agreed.

 

[HarshBardhan]

Members please see this article which claims to recount Maverick's experience with other Special Forces of the World :

In a recent conversation with an ex-maverick, I asked about their experience of with many other elite special forces of the world. The views he presented was very personal and doesn’t represent the views of the organization. Before moving forward to the experience description let’s have an idea who mavericks are? and what they do for this country?
Mavericks can be considered as India’s only Special Force, they are also known asSpecial Group, 22 SF or 4 Vikas. Now the statement above is very controversial but it is true, all thanks to Indian commanders and way of using their men. India currently has many special forces operating under different branches of the Indian Armed Forces, they are Special Forces but they are not getting the jobs and objectives like Special Forces. The thing is not very hard to understand that Special Forces are meant for special operation and when you start using them as special infantry their reputation and aura of their presence will settle down as just another force. Currently, only Mavericks are operating as Special Force for India.

Recently in a personal meeting, I got an opportunity to have a very limited insight of one of the most confidential organizations of India and its experience with world’s elites. We had conversations about various Special Forces around the world but I tried to get their experience mainly with US Special Forces, Russian Special Forces and British Special Forces. I was surprised to see the clarity of their views for the SF’s of these nations. The most interesting thing to note is that they have exercises with all of them, we have started from Navy Seal and ended up on the British SAS.

I began by shooting a lot of questions because I really want to know what exactly our guys are up to in the head to head situation. Almost every defence enthusiast has the urge to know about the potential of our guys in comparison to the other elite special forces of the world. While talking about United States Navy Seals they told me that, US Navy Seals are no doubt one of the best units and have very good men power along with humongous tech support behind it, but Special Forces are meant to be secret in terms of their involvement but Navy seals generally don’t mind keeping it low.
After SEALS we jumped upon Russian Special Forces, they mentioned about a particular unit which is Russia’s most elite SOF and very confidential but I forget it’s name, they conveyed their views for Russian SF like they have spent a month with them observing their skills and strengths. They described Russians as physically robust but they fall seriously behind in coordination with the members of the other unit. They mentioned about their personal experience that Russian operatives do not generally interact with the operatives of the other unit and sometimes they avoid any interaction with the operatives of their own unit. Mavericks said they are so fit and hard nuts that you leave a Russian operator in the jungle without anything “Wo saala sahi salamat aa jaega, apna weight bada ke”.

Moving on Israelis, they appreciated the operation capabilities of Israeli Spec Ops along with the political support to them at every moment. They also mentioned that if Indian Political side starts matching their cards with the army, we are no less than anyone. After few some I deliberately ask about who they consider best in the world, the answer was very simple British SAS. When I asked about the reason they confirmed the exact same thing which the whole thing the main reason behind the success of British SAS, that is Secrecy. Any Special Force can only survive behind the enemy lines or in any kind of operations only when the enemy know very little about them, they said we also keep the same very low profile.

https://elitepredators.wordpress.co...-experience-with-worlds-elite-special-forces/


I wanted to know is there any realistic trait in this article as from every angle it seems quite fanboyish and an out-of-world creation by a fanboy.

 

[sthf]

Army, more specifically ex-Army officers get their ego bruised every now and then. I have been reading about this nonsense for over a decade now. Opinions are being peddled as facts and disingenuity as opinions.

Garuds did a superb job at Pathankot. They did their primary job of keeping the assets and families safe but to no avail. Ex-Army were shrieking bloody murder even before the ops was over and for a simple reason. There are/were no senior Garuds to rebuke them.

Same goes for the slandering of SG by Generals Katoch and Brar. Do you see a former SG officer presenting their side of the story? You don't because most officers refrain from presenting themselves as the court jester in front of camera.

On the other hand, Brig. Kuldeep Singh Chandpuri brought a successful lawsuit against IAF officers who slandered him.

 

[Jay99]

So are Para SF equal to US Green Berets? Marcos equal to Navy Seals?

Does India have the best of the best -creme de la creme sepcial operations units like Seal Team 6 or US Army's delta force..??

Even US goverment officially does not officially acknowledge that Seal team 6 also known as DEVGRU and Delta (SFOD-D) exists

 

[Indian Sniper.001]

Even if they exist, govt. will never confirm it.

Does India have the best of the best -creme de la creme sepcial operations units like Seal Team 6 or US Army's delta force..??

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I know a retd. Col, a former SG operative who was criticizing the involvement of NSG in Pathankot, and was saying that Ajit Doval and ilk are trying to demean the IA, by bringing in civilian force involvement, though the IA had the means to tackle the situation. I'm sure this sentiment is huge in the IA, thus the resistance.

Trust me IA higher command doesnt give a shit about any other SF.Most of them compare other SFs in India with Ghataks(not talking about NSG).

The Pathankot thing(NSG) was higly criticised by IA officers behind closed doors.

This may be due to the reason that they have never asked for any support or have witnessed any other SF doing operations.Or maybe the fact that other SF hardly get the experience like Ghataks and Para SF.

Personally i feel Ghataks are as fit as any SF in India but the mental aspect is what i dont think they can compete in.And so is their training.There is hardly any test to check the aptitude or to train them in other languages or even harnessing any secondary skill..very unlike Para SF.

Ghataks are very fit and brave Infantry soldiers who are trained to fight like a SF but are not exactly an SF.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

So are Para SF equal to US Green Berets? Marcos equal to Navy Seals?

Does India have the best of the best -creme de la creme sepcial operations units like Seal Team 6 or US Army's delta force..??

Even US goverment officially does not officially acknowledge that Seal team 6 also known as DEVGRU and Delta (SFOD-D) exists

Look man,lets not compare to US.

They have a different structure than us and we can never be the same.

Yes,India has such a team but the selection is based on skill and choosen for a task.

We dont have the best of the best tag for anyone!