Indian Special Forces (archived)

[aditya g]

Who are para Gurkha's? Which unit?

 

[WARREN SS]

Who are para Gurkha's? Which unit?

Its SFF Unit Made up of Gurkha's Some are from Ladakh Scouts ,5 Gurkha's ,Arunachal scouts And Sikkim Scouts & others

 

[aditya g]

That being said I truly believe that the SOP and training manual of the NSG is not a perfect fit for COIN . They are a CT/HRT unit. Unless a high value hostages are taken NSG may not be the optimal resource.

We have been fighting a COIN and CT war in J&K for decades. The opponents are no rag tag bunch, but highly trained and well equipped (like we saw in Uri 2 days back). The terrorists in this instance stormed a house, then held the residents as hostage till they were somehow freed, and then went on to battle with security forces for hours if not days.

NSG is India's topmost CT force. If it deserves the funding and best quality talent, then it has to fight the war in J&K. How are we going to maintain a Special Forces standard unit if it is going to see only 1-2 CT ops in a year? Isn't that a waste?

COIN presents plenty of opportunities for NSG to carve out a niche and operate within that, without stepping on Army's toes. NSG could for example, take up QRT in Srinagar, instead of CRPF having to raise its own 'commando' unit;

Aside from Uri, encounters in Pampore (2016), DPS Pantha Chowk (2017) and Civil Police Lines Pulwama (2017) were situations where a CT/HRT would have been sent in - if it were available. I am keeping aside Nagrota, Mohura and Samba camp attacks as they are military facilities;

Now this is not to say that 1SF, 4SF, 9SF and 22SF are not doing a great job. These are best in the world units but they have plenty of opportunity to wage war;

The 9 Para are in a constant state of battle. Their task is largely to prevent infiltrating militants from getting to populated areas, or setting up a base of operations inside Kashmir. “You don’t want a major gun-battle or bombs going off in a civilian area, so we work non-stop to contain the infiltrators,” the CO says. When there is intelligence of terrorist movement in the mountains and forests of north Kashmir, the 9 Para are called in (two other SF units also operate in Kashmir, the 1 Para and 4 Para). When Goswami and his colleagues captured Ahmed, it was his second operation in as many weeks.

....

“We are either in an op (operation), or preparing for one, or coming back from one,” the CO says.​

Every time Army SFs sends Tushar Mahajans and Pawan Kumars to terrorist encounters, we have lesser SFs available to fight the war elsewhere in the hinterland.

So I say ensure NSG is deployed in J&K so that they are always in the thick of battle. SAGs are Army in any case, so let the best in the Army seeking action come via NSG with the best equipment and tactics.

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @reddevil9 @hammer head @Gessler @WARREN SS @abingdonboy

 

[aditya g]

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...ist-attack-in-jammu-ad-kashmir/1/1055549.html

The special counter-terror force National Security Guard (NSG) commandos is closely studying Fidayeen attack carried out by three Jaish-E-Muhammed terrorists at District Police Line (DPL) in Pulwama . The black cats are carefully examining the modus operandi and tactics used by JEM.

The attack took place in the District Police Line and later spread out. The attack was comparable to an urban attack. The families of police personnel were taken out safely while the security forces were engaged in a serious gun battle."We sent out a team member to get the details and also prepared them to examine the attack or counter attack response by the security forces," a senior officer in NSG told India Today

The case study will be used to prepare forces for urban attacks. Though Jammu and Kashmir has remained outside the domain of NSG with multiple agencies working in the strife torn state.

The Jammu and Kashmir Police, Army and CRPF launched an operation inside a District Police complex in south Kashmir (Pulwama) where three Pakistani terrorists were gunned down after they launched a suicide attack. The attack had left eight security personnel including four CRPF men and four JK Police personnel dead on August 26, this year. These three hard core terrorists were identified as Abu Saad, Dawood and Al Bakr - of Jaish-e-Muhammed outfit, Afzal Guru Squad, NSG is studying in detail how the terrorist entered in a surprise attack .

Incidentally, the JEM terrorist were behind attack on the High Security Military air base in Pathankot in 2016, an operation which was dealt by NSG, besides the Army in which 7 security personnel were martyred including NSG's Lieutenat Colonel Niranjan Kumar. The force however continues to do mock drills in the eventual possibility of a terror attack.

However, the NSG has not been deployed after the Pathankot terror attack but keeps an active eye on encounters in Jammu Kashmir which has witnessed another "bloody" year, with spate of terror attacks.However, the hinterland on the contrary has not witnessed terror attack since Pathankot.​

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

We have been fighting a COIN and CT war in J&K for decades. The opponents are no rag tag bunch, but highly trained and well equipped (like we saw in Uri 2 days back). The terrorists in this instance stormed a house, then held the residents as hostage till they were somehow freed, and then went on to battle with security forces for hours if not days.

NSG is India's topmost CT force. If it deserves the funding and best quality talent, then it has to fight the war in J&K. How are we going to maintain a Special Forces standard unit if it is going to see only 1-2 CT ops in a year? Isn't that a waste?

COIN presents plenty of opportunities for NSG to carve out a niche and operate within that, without stepping on Army's toes. NSG could for example, take up QRT in Srinagar, instead of CRPF having to raise its own 'commando' unit;

Aside from Uri, encounters in Pampore (2016), DPS Pantha Chowk (2017) and Civil Police Lines Pulwama (2017) were situations where a CT/HRT would have been sent in - if it were available. I am keeping aside Nagrota, Mohura and Samba camp attacks as they are military facilities;

Now this is not to say that 1SF, 4SF, 9SF and 22SF are not doing a great job. These are best in the world units but they have plenty of opportunity to wage war;

The 9 Para are in a constant state of battle. Their task is largely to prevent infiltrating militants from getting to populated areas, or setting up a base of operations inside Kashmir. “You don’t want a major gun-battle or bombs going off in a civilian area, so we work non-stop to contain the infiltrators,” the CO says. When there is intelligence of terrorist movement in the mountains and forests of north Kashmir, the 9 Para are called in (two other SF units also operate in Kashmir, the 1 Para and 4 Para). When Goswami and his colleagues captured Ahmed, it was his second operation in as many weeks.

....

“We are either in an op (operation), or preparing for one, or coming back from one,” the CO says.​

Every time Army SFs sends Tushar Mahajans and Pawan Kumars to terrorist encounters, we have lesser SFs available to fight the war elsewhere in the hinterland.

So I say ensure NSG is deployed in J&K so that they are always in the thick of battle. SAGs are Army in any case, so let the best in the Army seeking action come via NSG with the best equipment and tactics.

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @reddevil9 @hammer head @Gessler @WARREN SS @abingdonboy

I agree with you.

You rightly said that a unit which is not involved in action is a waste with such a huge budget and they can work on rotation.Each deployment can be 3 to 6 months like Para SF.

Para SF are overburdened and Garuds and Marcos are in no position to take up that role unless theres a structural change.

The minimum that can be done is that NSG should be deployed both in Jammu and Sringar to atleast take part in the Urban warfare.Meanwhile,Para SF can take control of Siachen,LOC and mountain ops in Hafruda and Lolabs etc.

I think 60-80 Commandos should be enough in Srinagar and Jammu each which is not a big deployment and they can also take care incase of any hostage situation in the airport.

 

[devhensh]

I agree with you.

You rightly said that a unit which is not involved in action is a waste with such a huge budget and they can work on rotation.Each deployment can be 3 to 6 months like Para SF.

Para SF are overburdened and Garuds and Marcos are in no position to take up that role unless theres a structural change.

The minimum that can be done is that NSG should be deployed both in Jammu and Sringar to atleast take part in the Urban warfare.Meanwhile,Para SF can take control of Siachen,LOC and mountain ops in Hafruda and Lolabs etc.

I think 60-80 Commandos should be enough in Srinagar and Jammu each which is not a big deployment and they can also take care incase of any hostage situation in the airport.

As a layman, i wonder why is NSG not there in first place ?
It's the best counterterrorist force in our country and it doesn't have a permanent base in the state where there are highest terrorist engagements...where as, it has bases in Kolkata & Chennai and everywhere else....isn't it waste of taxpayers money and their expertise......

NSG is a specialized paramilitary force which should be used for Urban counter Insurgency and Hostage rescue operations in all major cities(of J&K), it's Airbases, Airports, and other urban assets (just like a SWAT team in US)....More like Policing and intervening to terrorist actions...

NSG and CRPF should lower the burden on RR, PARA SF, regular Army and leave them to do what they do BEST....hunting and proactively eliminating the terrorist Varmint ....before they reach cities (i.e at LOC, Forests, Mountains etc... I thought it was a no brainer...

 

[rkhanna]

Here is my 2 cents worth.

COIN/CT is apples and oranges to CT/HRT - For the first one NSG will always be the B team. Just because hostages were taken doesnt mean it comes in the NSG domain. Each encounter in the Valley is fluid. It moves from hinterlands into villages and into Urban centers and back over hours.

Can they do the job. Absolutely. But 51/52 SAG that rotates in will have to go through training.. They will have to start training to contend with Rocket Launchers / IEDs/ Armourd Vehicles / IA MMGs all operating in the same AO. (something they are not trained for). T
But this means diminishing their core CQB skills. CQB and HRT is a very very perishable skill and needs to be trained for constantly with single minded focus.

IF the NSG has to be deloyed it needs to be rolled into the CRPF C&C structure so that they dont come in the way of army ops. They will be first responders/QRT in the cities and towns only.

NSG is a specialized paramilitary force which should be used for Urban counter Insurgency and Hostage rescue operations in all major cities(of J&K), it's Airbases, Airports, and other urban assets (just like a SWAT team in US)....More like Policing and intervening to terrorist
actions...

100% agree. That should be the extent of NSG deployment

 

[hammer head]

We have been fighting a COIN and CT war in J&K for decades. The opponents are no rag tag bunch, but highly trained and well equipped (like we saw in Uri 2 days back). The terrorists in this instance stormed a house, then held the residents as hostage till they were somehow freed, and then went on to battle with security forces for hours if not days.

NSG is India's topmost CT force. If it deserves the funding and best quality talent, then it has to fight the war in J&K. How are we going to maintain a Special Forces standard unit if it is going to see only 1-2 CT ops in a year? Isn't that a waste?

COIN presents plenty of opportunities for NSG to carve out a niche and operate within that, without stepping on Army's toes. NSG could for example, take up QRT in Srinagar, instead of CRPF having to raise its own 'commando' unit;

Aside from Uri, encounters in Pampore (2016), DPS Pantha Chowk (2017) and Civil Police Lines Pulwama (2017) were situations where a CT/HRT would have been sent in - if it were available. I am keeping aside Nagrota, Mohura and Samba camp attacks as they are military facilities;

Now this is not to say that 1SF, 4SF, 9SF and 22SF are not doing a great job. These are best in the world units but they have plenty of opportunity to wage war;

The 9 Para are in a constant state of battle. Their task is largely to prevent infiltrating militants from getting to populated areas, or setting up a base of operations inside Kashmir. “You don’t want a major gun-battle or bombs going off in a civilian area, so we work non-stop to contain the infiltrators,” the CO says. When there is intelligence of terrorist movement in the mountains and forests of north Kashmir, the 9 Para are called in (two other SF units also operate in Kashmir, the 1 Para and 4 Para). When Goswami and his colleagues captured Ahmed, it was his second operation in as many weeks.

....

“We are either in an op (operation), or preparing for one, or coming back from one,” the CO says.​

Every time Army SFs sends Tushar Mahajans and Pawan Kumars to terrorist encounters, we have lesser SFs available to fight the war elsewhere in the hinterland.

So I say ensure NSG is deployed in J&K so that they are always in the thick of battle. SAGs are Army in any case, so let the best in the Army seeking action come via NSG with the best equipment and tactics.

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @reddevil9 @hammer head @Gessler @WARREN SS @abingdonboy

First of all let me Categorically state What is the on paper Charter of Duty for NSG

" The primary role of this Force is to combat terrorism in whatever form it may assume in areas where activity of terrorists assumes serious proportions, and the State Police and other Central Police Forces cannot cope up with the situation. The NSG is a Force specially equipped and trained to deal with specific situations and is therefore, to be used only in exceptional situations. The Force is not designed to undertake the functions of the State Police Forces or other Para Military Forces of the Union of India.

Secondly, all the personnel who are on Deputation to include Officers, JCOs, ORs are coming from field area or CI/CT areas only, whatever is learned in the field areas are inculcated at the Training centers and TACTICS are developed around the Modus operandi. RR, CRPF BSF and our SF are through and through into all the ops which just adds on to the expertise of all the varied forces.

Today the Indian forces are the most active and experienced Force on the ground as they are performing and Thwarting all forms of nefarious Islamic Terrorist activities, Be is a Fidayeen attack, a BAT attack, Shoot and Scoot attacks, Standoff Fire attacks, Isolated Grenades attacks, Hostage situations. Jungle warfare, Busting of Hideout, Taking out IEDs and what not.

Every force has a Training year and a Training plan which is followed irrespective of the operational commitment of the years, So for example, if a Unit is at LOC in CI/CT role and conventionally it responsible for an attack by Infiltration role it will bloody well go and train itself at a different location irrespective of the operational need.

SF ops are not done at frequent and regular basis, yes the Training is regular but in order to have real life op experiences you would require the boots to be on ground, And thats exactly what is being done.

 

[aditya g]

As a layman, i wonder why is NSG not there in first place ?
.

Good question.

The rationale was, that in J&K in any case the army is there to deal with the jehadis. While rest of the country had no protection. Remember, till post 2611 era the cops on ground were equipped with only lathi and whistle.

Note the situation is changing with each state having raised their own swat units. Now their effectiveness is not proven but definitely removes pressure from NSG.

 

[Indian Sniper.001]

Marine commando Capt. Varun Singh still has shrapnel in his chest from anti-terror op he led 17 years ago. His tale in #IndiasMostFearless. - Shiv Aroor.

​

All for the sake of Bharat... maata. _/\_

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

As a layman, i wonder why is NSG not there in first place ?
It's the best counterterrorist force in our country and it doesn't have a permanent base in the state where there are highest terrorist engagements...where as, it has bases in Kolkata & Chennai and everywhere else....isn't it waste of taxpayers money and their expertise......

NSG is a specialized paramilitary force which should be used for Urban counter Insurgency and Hostage rescue operations in all major cities(of J&K), it's Airbases, Airports, and other urban assets (just like a SWAT team in US)....More like Policing and intervening to terrorist actions...

NSG and CRPF should lower the burden on RR, PARA SF, regular Army and leave them to do what they do BEST....hunting and proactively eliminating the terrorist Varmint ....before they reach cities (i.e at LOC, Forests, Mountains etc... I thought it was a no brainer...

Thats right.

I think we should convert some of the SRG into SAG(which has been done for 1 unit).This would lower the burden in urban warfare in the state of Kashmir.

RR and PARA SF can focus on the forests and mountains.

10 years ago our SRG guys didnt have the experience of operations but now everyone from ITBP to CRPF has commandos for jungle warfare who fight moaists.These commandos can easily be trained in urban warfare.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

NSG has such a huge deployment around the country now that even 10 commandos from one base will lead to a good number to be deployed in the valley.

Or

They could convert some of the SRG into SAG for this very role without touching the 51 and 52 SAG.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

SPECIAL GROUP (SG) IN OPERATION BLUE STAR.

You must know what Special Group (SG) is. Its an anti Hijacking Force created by officers of PARA SF and controlled by the CabSec (Cabinet Secretary).

ROLE OF SPECIAL GROUP
It was meant to be a pure Special Operation Force (SOF) and carry out only anti hijacking missions but it's now being used in Kashmir , one team was sent to Sri Lanka and they were also pushed in Golden Temple.
Operation Blue Star was the only time when the force was being used at the right place as it was to be used for an anti hijacking missions.

DID IT FAIL OF WAS IT A SUCCESS ?

Special Group (SG) was provided with substantial and concrete information (somewhere in late 1981) of the categories of weapons being stored inside the Golden Temple , number of militants inside and the exact location of their sentries , posts and ammunition dumps. This info was not available even with the Army or the Punjab Police.
Despite possessing concert information and tip offs the SG felt that it's not their duty to inform other agencies and started it's practice by creating a dummy Golden Temple at their home base in Sarasawa somewhere in 1982.

But then when the ultimate day came , when the army had to take the call on which units shall be moving into Amritsar , Special Group (SG) was not even taken into consideration. Army had its own anti hijacking and Sabotage experts called in from 1 PARA SF. But the Cabinet Secretary felt that it would be inappropriate of SG didn't take part in operation hence army allowed SG to set foot inside the Golden Temple and they CARRIED OUT THE TASK IN POLICE UNIFORM (keeping in mind the denial factor) but suffered huge casualties before being asked to retreat.

In one of his statements Lt Gen KS Brar said that -
"Initial it was planned that of something happens then the government will give them this task and then they made some models and rehearsed it (somewhere in 1982). But then it was discussed and decided that they were in capable of carrying out the mission. The army didn't have anything to do with it."

"We found that there was no difference between SFF and normal infantry battalions , every infantry battalions has got commandos they are equally trained"

Here SG was referred as SFF.

It is commonly believed that its a photo of two SG officers during the Operation Blue Star.
But the reality is the to deny it's activities and involvement officers of SG operated in Punjab Police Uniform. This can be proven by seeing the next photograph
The photo is of two , 1 PARA (SF) officers and not Special Group

INDRA Networks brings your the exclusive photo of 1 PARA (SF) officer getting ready to operate inside the Golden Temple.


Credits to INDRA--The best page on SF in FB..Follow them guys.

 

[cobra commando]

surgicalstrikeon30charrule

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

surgicalstrikeon30charrule

Thanks for posting.

Great work by newsX..watching it now.

 

[WARREN SS]

SPECIAL GROUP (SG) IN OPERATION BLUE STAR.

You must know what Special Group (SG) is. Its an anti Hijacking Force created by officers of PARA SF and controlled by the CabSec (Cabinet Secretary).

ROLE OF SPECIAL GROUP
It was meant to be a pure Special Operation Force (SOF) and carry out only anti hijacking missions but it's now being used in Kashmir , one team was sent to Sri Lanka and they were also pushed in Golden Temple.
Operation Blue Star was the only time when the force was being used at the right place as it was to be used for an anti hijacking missions.

DID IT FAIL OF WAS IT A SUCCESS ?

Special Group (SG) was provided with substantial and concrete information (somewhere in late 1981) of the categories of weapons being stored inside the Golden Temple , number of militants inside and the exact location of their sentries , posts and ammunition dumps. This info was not available even with the Army or the Punjab Police.
Despite possessing concert information and tip offs the SG felt that it's not their duty to inform other agencies and started it's practice by creating a dummy Golden Temple at their home base in Sarasawa somewhere in 1982.

But then when the ultimate day came , when the army had to take the call on which units shall be moving into Amritsar , Special Group (SG) was not even taken into consideration. Army had its own anti hijacking and Sabotage experts called in from 1 PARA SF. But the Cabinet Secretary felt that it would be inappropriate of SG didn't take part in operation hence army allowed SG to set foot inside the Golden Temple and they CARRIED OUT THE TASK IN POLICE UNIFORM (keeping in mind the denial factor) but suffered huge casualties before being asked to retreat.

In one of his statements Lt Gen KS Brar said that -
"Initial it was planned that of something happens then the government will give them this task and then they made some models and rehearsed it (somewhere in 1982). But then it was discussed and decided that they were in capable of carrying out the mission. The army didn't have anything to do with it."

"We found that there was no difference between SFF and normal infantry battalions , every infantry battalions has got commandos they are equally trained"

Here SG was referred as SFF.

It is commonly believed that its a photo of two SG officers during the Operation Blue Star.
But the reality is the to deny it's activities and involvement officers of SG operated in Punjab Police Uniform. This can be proven by seeing the next photograph
The photo is of two , 1 PARA (SF) officers and not Special Group

INDRA Networks brings your the exclusive photo of 1 PARA (SF) officer getting ready to operate inside the Golden Temple.


Credits to INDRA--The best page on SF in FB..Follow them guys.

SPECIAL GROUP (SG) IN OPERATION BLUE STAR.

You must know what Special Group (SG) is. Its an anti Hijacking Force created by officers of PARA SF and controlled by the CabSec (Cabinet Secretary).

ROLE OF SPECIAL GROUP
It was meant to be a pure Special Operation Force (SOF) and carry out only anti hijacking missions but it's now being used in Kashmir , one team was sent to Sri Lanka and they were also pushed in Golden Temple.
Operation Blue Star was the only time when the force was being used at the right place as it was to be used for an anti hijacking missions.

DID IT FAIL OF WAS IT A SUCCESS ?

Special Group (SG) was provided with substantial and concrete information (somewhere in late 1981) of the categories of weapons being stored inside the Golden Temple , number of militants inside and the exact location of their sentries , posts and ammunition dumps. This info was not available even with the Army or the Punjab Police.
Despite possessing concert information and tip offs the SG felt that it's not their duty to inform other agencies and started it's practice by creating a dummy Golden Temple at their home base in Sarasawa somewhere in 1982.

But then when the ultimate day came , when the army had to take the call on which units shall be moving into Amritsar , Special Group (SG) was not even taken into consideration. Army had its own anti hijacking and Sabotage experts called in from 1 PARA SF. But the Cabinet Secretary felt that it would be inappropriate of SG didn't take part in operation hence army allowed SG to set foot inside the Golden Temple and they CARRIED OUT THE TASK IN POLICE UNIFORM (keeping in mind the denial factor) but suffered huge casualties before being asked to retreat.

In one of his statements Lt Gen KS Brar said that -
"Initial it was planned that of something happens then the government will give them this task and then they made some models and rehearsed it (somewhere in 1982). But then it was discussed and decided that they were in capable of carrying out the mission. The army didn't have anything to do with it."

"We found that there was no difference between SFF and normal infantry battalions , every infantry battalions has got commandos they are equally trained"

Here SG was referred as SFF.

It is commonly believed that its a photo of two SG officers during the Operation Blue Star.
But the reality is the to deny it's activities and involvement officers of SG operated in Punjab Police Uniform. This can be proven by seeing the next photograph
The photo is of two , 1 PARA (SF) officers and not Special Group

INDRA Networks brings your the exclusive photo of 1 PARA (SF) officer getting ready to operate inside the Golden Temple.


Credits to INDRA--The best page on SF in FB..Follow them guys.

Clear Military Ego from the Part Of Gen brar And Years Of Neg-election Of SFF by army brass This Why NSG No being called To Kashmir its about generals and there Ego's

SFF was Not considered Army as it part Army GHQ they not even granted equal pay

 

[aditya g]

Thanks for posting.

Great work by newsX..watching it now.

Link to video? ........................

 

[captscooby81]

http://www.newsx.com/video-gallery/...-complete-video-detailing-the-super-operation

Link to video? ........................

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

From the show:-

Pakistani Brigadier could have been targeted..permission was asked but denied since other teams were not in position.The Brigadier had left by the time the teams reached.(wow this is gutsy..killing of such a high ranking officer could have triggered a big issue)

Pakis used to fire every 60 mins because they wanted to show that they are alert.(cowards haha)

Teams had 8 members with 3 demo guys in each team.

8 days ago recce started...2 days and night for planning.

Infiltration was scattered....from 3 days ago to 1 day before.

Dropped to LOC by civil cars and some army vehicles with lights off.

35 kgs carried by each operator.

UAVs..the own troops didnt know that own UAVs were monitoring.

Ex NSG SAG guys in team too.

70-80 pakis killed.

Team commander talked about being ruthless.

They had used the same infil exfil route many times before.Bad luck that mine went off.

More officers and JCOs incuded in team.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I found out every operator to be more smarter and knowledgeable than i thought they would be.Very smart and knowledgeable of any outcome and how to handle that.

 

[devhensh]

http://www.newsx.com/video-gallery/...-complete-video-detailing-the-super-operation

Hats off to these Bravehearts.....The Indian nation is indebted for ever !!!

Strikes like these raise the stature of India in world...apart from creating a conventional deterance......Israel has proved to the world, that rogue nations and terrorists understand only the language of voilence and retaliation.....

They will stop/minimise such activities only when they see that the costs on their side are 10 times more...