Indian Special Forces (archived)

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Army, more specifically ex-Army officers get their ego bruised every now and then. I have been reading about this nonsense for over a decade now. Opinions are being peddled as facts and disingenuity as opinions.

Garuds did a superb job at Pathankot. They did their primary job of keeping the assets and families safe but to no avail. Ex-Army were shrieking bloody murder even before the ops was over and for a simple reason. There are/were no senior Garuds to rebuke them.

Same goes for the slandering of SG by Generals Katoch and Brar. Do you see a former SG officer presenting their side of the story? You don't because most officers refrain from presenting themselves as the court jester in front of camera.

On the other hand, Brig. Kuldeep Singh Chandpuri brought a successful lawsuit against IAF officers who slandered him.

Most SF in India except Para lack the higher command option where they have a very senior officer of the rank of General with all the experience leading them or giving in his inputs from decades of service.

 

[sthf]

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Precisely my point. People like Gen. Katoch tend to go overboard when the opposing side has no one to defend them and most likely never will be. Both IAF & IN promote aviators to the top, leaving little or no space for special operators.

I saw a couple of Army Generals going head to head with Brig. Mahalingam over the use of NSG during Pathankot. Brig. Mahalingam shut them up nicely.

SOCOM like body under the aegis of IA is the solution to this but the government is turning out to be pretty useless on that front.

 

[abingdonboy]

I know a retd. Col, a former SG operative who was criticizing the involvement of NSG in Pathankot, and was saying that Ajit Doval and ilk are trying to demean the IA, by bringing in civilian force involvement, though the IA had the means to tackle the situation. I'm sure this sentiment is huge in the IA, thus the resistance.

IA and military in general are very sensitive about outside assistence/"turf" stepping.

The decsion to deploy the NSG during Pathankot was done with the seniormost military leadership (including COAS) in the loop and was the RIGHT call. 1000s of service members and crucially their families were present on the base, the leadership was very concenred a hostage rescue situation would arise and hence the very best unit for this eventuality was deployed. It's funny that some in the army would criticise the NSG's efforts when they have had rather poor performances in much simpler operations over the years.

 

[abingdonboy]

Garuds did a superb job at Pathankot. They did their primary job of keeping the assets and families safe but to no avail.

Damn right bro! I think at most 20 Garuds were actually present and they were the ones that engaged the terrorists first and were able to pin them down for some time (losing 1 operator in the process and 1 receiving serious injuries but kept fighting).

It is sheer arrogance from a small section of ex-army to desparage them just because they happened to belong to a sister service. This sort of thing leaves a very bad taste in the mouth as had these been PARA (SF) guys or even from a regular regiment these same ex-IA chaps would be singing their praises.

 

[abingdonboy]

Or maybe the fact that other SF hardly get the experience like Ghataks and Para SF

And now we are seeing the IA openly oppose attempts to allow the NSG to gain just this kind of experience........


I can only imagine that these same guys have opposed an expanded role for MARCOs and Garuds on the ground in J&K.

Honestly, some of these fellows need to be reminded that the MISSION comes first, not their ego or that of their service.

 

[abingdonboy]

Does India have the best of the best -creme de la creme sepcial operations units like Seal Team 6 or US Army's delta force..??

Special Group

Even US goverment officially does not officially acknowledge that Seal team 6 also known as DEVGRU and Delta (SFOD-D) exists

Please! USG explicitly stated it was DEVGRU that carried out the OBL mission and they even sanctioned a hollywood blockbuster about it!

You are right abotu SFOD-D though.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

And now we are seeing the IA openly oppose attempts to allow the NSG to gain just this kind of experience........


I can only imagine that these same guys have opposed an expanded role for MARCOs and Garuds on the ground in J&K.

Honestly, some of these fellows need to be reminded that the MISSION comes first, not their ego or that of their service.

Its everywhere bro.

Its like the AF opposing the Army having attack helos.Whoever dominates tries to show off their ego some way or the other.

Garuds are made for a different role by the IAF so i wont talk about them but Marcos can be utilized.

I think 250 Marcos deployed in Kashmir with teams operating in Kupwara,LOC and SIachen wont be a bad idea.Initially they could be deployed with Para and then independently.

100 or 150 can be deployed in the north east too.

Initially they will take time to get used to things in some places but when the deployment is made permanent they will slowly start getting experience and in 10 years have a lot of people with grey hair who have been there done that to be in higher command.

 

[abingdonboy]

Its everywhere bro.

Its like the AF opposing the Army having attack helos.Whoever dominates tries to show off their ego some way or the other.

Garuds are made for a different role by the IAF so i wont talk about them but Marcos can be utilized.

I think 250 Marcos deployed in Kashmir with teams operating in Kupwara,LOC and SIachen wont be a bad idea.Initially they could be deployed with Para and then independently.

100 or 150 can be deployed in the north east too.

Initially they will take time to get used to things in some places but when the deployment is made permanent they will slowly start getting experience and in 10 years have a lot of people with grey hair who have been there done that to be in higher command.

Problem is consistent on all fronts as you point out bro, army and IAF both having Apaches fleets just says it all!

And whilst the services can be blamed it is understandable what they are doing the real culprits are those sat in the MoD and GoI for allowing these situations to exist. We all know the civlians have full authority over the miltiary but very rarely do they actually exercise it, too much are the services allowed to govern themselves and set the agenda. Why has CDS and reforms like new tri-service commands not come into place yet? Because the services oppose this.

Time is long overdue for the civlians to grow some b@lls and exercise their power but I am fast losing my faith in even these so-called nationalists to deliver meaningful change, 3 years and 4 different DMs (full and part time)- this isn't a priority area for them.

 

[rkhanna]

Special Group


Please! USG explicitly stated it was DEVGRU that carried out the OBL mission and they even sanctioned a hollywood blockbuster about it!

You are right abotu SFOD-D though.

Us military press releases calls Delta as Combat Applications Group.

 

[aditya g]

Marcos operate in and around wular lake, presumably because it is a marine environment. I think that logic gives a sound basis for their deployment (of course army also has divers and small water ops capability). I think their presence is sufficient.

There are possibilities in the north east, say at lok tak lake or somewhere around Brahmaputra. But I am not sure if north east justifies more SFs as insurgency there has low tempo.

For garuds, they are probably deployed in J&K IAF stations already. They could take up QRT duty for X km area around these bases. Or maybe embed a flight in 31 RR (Cdo) as @rkhanna suggested.

 

[aditya g]

Next time a hijack happens off Somalia, I hope PM Modi and EAM Swaraj will authorize a Marcos op to rescue them.

{Dreams away}

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Next time a hijack happens off Somalia, I hope PM Modi and EAM Swaraj will authorize a Marcos op to rescue them.

{Dreams away}

They have done that in the past.

I remember in one incident in 2011 they captured 61 Somali pirates and there are more incidents like these.

I think they should be deployed in North east because they will gain good experience of operating in jungles.

In North east the tactics is completely different than in Kashmir.Very small teams are sent to ambush the insurgents...they hit and come back..Guerrilla warfare 101.This will make them harness their skill of raid which can one day be carried out in Pakistan sea shore.

Secondly,we could use them to hit China and exfil using brahmaputra river.21 SF and 12 SF dont have such a big water capability to do that!!

Lastly,So many times we see floods in Assam.They good be of great humanitarian help there.

Kashmir..well you could be right.

No disrespect to anyone but i think Army would not allow Marcos to get into the other side of ops of a SF operator which could be infil into terrorist groups and even going into POK.This could be the reason they will/should be around wular lake.

These kind of high risk tasks are exclusively limited to the best of 9 para and SG.

P.S-Remeber the sinper from the surgical strike had long hair and beard and said i was choosen as navigator coz i had used the route several times before.

 

[aditya g]

Reg Somalia, I meant special op on Somali land for Hostage Rescue rather than pay ransoms. MARCOS have of course interdicted pirates on many occasions.

They have done that in the past.

I remember in one incident in 2011 they captured 61 Somali pirates and there are more incidents like these.

I think they should be deployed in North east because they will gain good experience of operating in jungles.

In North east the tactics is completely different than in Kashmir.Very small teams are sent to ambush the insurgents...they hit and come back..Guerrilla warfare 101.This will make them harness their skill of raid which can one day be carried out in Pakistan sea shore.

Secondly,we could use them to hit China and exfil using brahmaputra river.21 SF and 12 SF dont have such a big water capability to do that!!

Lastly,So many times we see floods in Assam.They good be of great humanitarian help there.

Kashmir..well you could be right.

No disrespect to anyone but i think Army would not allow Marcos to get into the other side of ops of a SF operator which could be infil into terrorist groups and even going into POK.This could be the reason they will/should be around wular lake.

These kind of high risk tasks are exclusively limited to the best of 9 para and SG.

P.S-Remeber the sinper from the surgical strike had long hair and beard and said i was choosen as navigator coz i had used the route several times before.

 

[aditya g]

..............................................................

 

[abingdonboy]

They have done that in the past.

I remember in one incident in 2011 they captured 61 Somali pirates and there are more incidents like these.

I think they should be deployed in North east because they will gain good experience of operating in jungles.

In North east the tactics is completely different than in Kashmir.Very small teams are sent to ambush the insurgents...they hit and come back..Guerrilla warfare 101.This will make them harness their skill of raid which can one day be carried out in Pakistan sea shore.

Secondly,we could use them to hit China and exfil using brahmaputra river.21 SF and 12 SF dont have such a big water capability to do that!!

Lastly,So many times we see floods in Assam.They good be of great humanitarian help there.

Kashmir..well you could be right.

No disrespect to anyone but i think Army would not allow Marcos to get into the other side of ops of a SF operator which could be infil into terrorist groups and even going into POK.This could be the reason they will/should be around wular lake.

These kind of high risk tasks are exclusively limited to the best of 9 para and SG.

P.S-Remeber the sinper from the surgical strike had long hair and beard and said i was choosen as navigator coz i had used the route several times before.

Sadly none of this will happen until a fully fledged SOCOM is established bro. Even what is now being proposed (a Special Ops Division with just select units/btns from each SF) won't cut it, all 3 SFs need to come under one command so they can reorient themselves and focus on the mission above all else and leave these petty differences to one side.

 

[abingdonboy]

For garuds, they are probably deployed in J&K IAF stations already. They could take up QRT duty for X km area around these bases. Or maybe embed a flight in 31 RR (Cdo) as @rkhanna suggested.

Garuds are meant to start deploying with IA SF teams in J&K soon (or maybe it has already happened) or perhaps the IA's protectionism has scuppered this also....

 

[Indian Sniper.001]

Until this turf war is done away with, we will not see any significant development in coordination b/w services. All of them want their name to go down as the one to have achieved the specific goal. We need to bolster the effectiveness of the Special Forces and that can done only when they are brought into a single command.

 

[rkhanna]

Interesting comment to this vide


Love the NSG's @1:06 from Britain! They saved me and my family once. I was in the Taj Hotel in Mumbai when it was attacked by the terrorists in the November of 2008. It was a really bad experience. At night, we heard gunshots so we locked ourselves in the room. All night, we could hear the gunshots and we didn't even know what was going on and were scared as ******! At 4 O'clock in the morning, someone tried to break in the room. We thought it was a hostile so my dad (an ex SAS) attacked him as soon as he broke through but he knocked my dad out in a minute. Thank god he didn't shoot. They they said they were there to save us. They handed us over to that fire brigade guy at the window. I'm still alive because of them. Love you India very much!

 

[WARREN SS]

Episode : 2 Breaking Point: Commando School Belgaum.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Hand held computers existed since 2010 with PARA SF ..

Can someone post about this uploading and downloading technology by masked communication network used by SF operators to transfer messages and multimedia because this has been claimed in the recent book launched on Surgical strike.It says the team commanders had such technology.