Indian Special Forces (archived)

[Bornubus]

__________________________________

 

[Bornubus]

View attachment 16918

__________________________________

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

This marks a significant moment for the Garuds, they will now have to earn their swagger:

...Garud commandos - the special forces of the Indian Air Force - who were first to interdict the terrorist on January 2, 2016, will now be deployed along the Indian Army in counter-terror operations in Jammu and Kashmir. "The Garuds are a competent force, but they need to battle hardened. Based on the inquiry report the government has decided to deploy them in Jammu and Kashmir for battle inoculation," top sources said.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...k-airbase-commander-resignation/1/983201.html

Now all 3 Indian SFs will be deployed on the ground in J&K and will undertake counter-terror combat ops, perhaps this will also see the tri-service SOCOM proposal progress (I'm not confident of that though)?

@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR I remember we had talked about this before

This is a positive move.

Although,i would like to wait and see in what role.As in my opinion the Marcos are under deployed in Kashmir.

Last month the Navy deployed 8 Marcos in a remote island who had to live off the land and carry out combat drills everyday.After a week only 4 survived the test.


So,we need to pull up our socks.If 4 Marcos are unfit lets not even talk about what happens when bullet flies.

Garuds and Marcos need to be put under Para Command and later work independently with RR Sectors in Kashmir for gaining experience.

The curve of experience will go 90 degrees in the first 3 years.

 

[rkhanna]

Last month the Navy deployed 8 Marcos in a remote island who had to live off the land and carry out combat drills everyday.After a week only 4 survived the test.

Whoa. Was this selection or badged frogmen. I know more than 1 Marcos and the above ( don't know the context) seems highly unlikely.

The main issue with garud / Marcos vs SF. ( Which is the same with seals vs Oda) is that all army guys come from infantry backgrounds. They have spend years in infantry then Paras before going to SF. I.e their infantry skills are now no longer basic but highly advanced . They spent months doing large scale / small scale excersises and real world ops ( Kashmir / ne/).

With non army SF ( world over) the operators go from basic to advanced In a Compressed time with no real world application till they become operational.

Because of the above non army SF while great shooters have very limited staying ability on the battlefield without support .

Our garud / Marcos at the end of the day need real world practice in a combat zone to make their learned basic infantry skills muscle memory

 

[indiandefencefan]

Plain looking briefcase carried by officer directly following the PM is the "Football" which is used to access and authorize use of Strategic Weapons. All leaders of Nuclear Powers have such an officer following them around everywhere. It is one of the most sensitive (if not THE most sensitive) and sophisticated pieces of technology made by mankind. Millions of lives hang in the balance on that simple looking suitcase

Brother that is a collapsible ballistic shield not a "nuclear football".

All Indian nukes on mainland are inactive and kept unpaired from their delivery vehicles.
The only active nukes we have are on the Arihant.

We don't have a "football". Not yet anyways, don't believe conspiracy theories.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Whoa. Was this selection or badged frogmen. I know more than 1 Marcos and the above ( don't know the context) seems highly unlikely.

The main issue with garud / Marcos vs SF. ( Which is the same with seals vs Oda) is that all army guys come from infantry backgrounds. They have spend years in infantry then Paras before going to SF. I.e their infantry skills are now no longer basic but highly advanced . They spent months doing large scale / small scale excersises and real world ops ( Kashmir / ne/).

With non army SF ( world over) the operators go from basic to advanced In a Compressed time with no real world application till they become operational.

Because of the above non army SF while great shooters have very limited staying ability on the battlefield without support .

Our garud / Marcos at the end of the day need real world practice in a combat zone to make their learned basic infantry skills muscle memory

They were maroon beret badged frogmen.However,i read it on a Facebook page which provides many unseen pictures of Marcos.So,i trusted them with this news.


The PARA SF will always be a notch higher than any other SF in India as you rightly pointed that even before the probee enters the Para Camp he has already shot dead terrorists/injured them or shot at terrorists and done tens of Cordon and search or search and destroy missions.I know a Ghatak guy from an Infantry battalion who has a experience even the best Marco or Garud operator would be proud of.Shot dead 3 fucking pigs charging them with LMG besides cross LOC raids.

Secondly,Navy and AF guys are more educated and technical knowledge people.Army guys are the opposite from the villages of Punjab/ Haryana/Rajastan/Jammu and Kashmir and North East.Who grew up having a physically tough life working in farms or facing terrorists.Nothing scares them and they can survive of the land.

Lastly,Para SF are NSG,SFF and SG and they have the best school available for everything except combat diving.

 

[ezsasa]

On the point of Garuds being asked to get involved in COIN ops..

It's an indication of change in the nature of war itself.

The last three wars which were fought by traditional forces on both sides are :

1) beginning of gulf war 2
2) gulf war 1
3) Kargil war

Other than these, everything else has been insurgent wars.

Flip side of these insurgent wars are that, specialist forces are being redirected from their core specialisations.

We have to wonder, how long will these insurgent wars continue?

 

[rkhanna]

last three wars which were fought by traditional forces on both sides are :

1) beginning of gulf war 2
2) gulf war 1
3) Kargil war

Actually disagree on kargil. It was completely asymetrical warfare. Where a formal military with airpower fought irregular insurgents (even if they were PA regulars).

It's alot what the Americans faced in the initial offensive into south Afghanistan

 

[rkhanna]

They were maroon beret badged frogmen.However,i read it on a Facebook page which provides many unseen pictures of Marcos.So,i trusted them with this news.


The PARA SF will always be a notch higher than any other SF in India as you rightly pointed that even before the probee enters the Para Camp he has already shot dead terrorists/injured them or shot at terrorists and done tens of Cordon and search or search and destroy missions.I know a Ghatak guy from an Infantry battalion who has a experience even the best Marco or Garud operator would be proud of.Shot dead 3 fucking pigs charging them with LMG besides cross LOC raids.

Secondly,Navy and AF guys are more educated and technical knowledge people.Army guys are the opposite from the villages of Punjab/ Haryana/Rajastan/Jammu and Kashmir and North East.Who grew up having a physically tough life working in farms or facing terrorists.Nothing scares them and they can survive of the land.

Lastly,Para SF are NSG,SFF and SG and they have the best school available for everything except combat diving.

OT /Really wish they hadn't changed from the sand berets.

If you don't mind could you share the fb page ?

 

[ezsasa]

Actually disagree on kargil. It was completely asymetrical warfare. Where a formal military with airpower fought irregular insurgents (even if they were PA regulars).

It's alot what the Americans faced in the initial offensive into south Afghanistan

We can discuss your point in a different thread.

What about the the over all point, that regular armies are having to adapt to deal with insurgencies, while deviating from their intended specialisation.

In this case garuds.

 

[Adioz]

We can discuss your point in a different thread.

What about the the over all point, that regular armies are having to adapt to deal with insurgencies, while deviating from their intended specialisation.

In this case garuds.

What about this logic: Nuclear deterrence -> Lower risk of conventional war -> Increased necessity of proxy war -> Increased proxy wars (Insurgents are practically state proxies) -> Increased SOF size and deviation from specializations for conventional war -> reorientation of entire armies towards asymmetric warfare -> Drawn out conflicts -> Perpetually rising civilian and military casualties -> Resentment in domestic population -> Hostility in domestic population -> Withdrawal of stronger forces -> Victory for proxy forces -> New war in adjoining area started by proxies -> cycle repeats.

Linchpin in the aforementioned strategy is Nuclear deterrence and public opinion trajectory.

Note that their are two types pf proxy wars:-

• Both using proxies to fight while somewhat involved directly.
  • USA vs Russia in Syria
• One using proxy to fight while the other fights directly.
  • India vs Pakistan in J&K
  • USA vs Pakistan in Afghanistan (sort of)
  • Pakistan vs India in Bangladesh Liberation War

We have to wonder, how long will these insurgent wars continue?

Forever
Therefore there is a need to develop permanent "hybrid warfare" capability in the professional militaries of the 21st century.

 

[Vinod DX9]

Special Frontier Force (SFF)

 

[Vinod DX9]

Another exclusive pic of the new uniform of an operator of 52 SAG, NSG
'Highjack Busters'

 

[Vinod DX9]

A collage of pics of SFF...

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

OT /Really wish they hadn't changed from the sand berets.

If you don't mind could you share the fb page ?

........................................................................................................

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Special Frontier Force (SFF) View attachment 16938

Reminds me of the movie The Expendables.

 

[abingdonboy]

We don't have a "football". Not yet anyways, don't believe conspiracy theories.

I have proof to the contrary but I'll refrain from posting it on a public forum

 

[rkhanna]

Special Frontier Force (SFF) View attachment 16938

Ironically the best part of this picture is the fact that all the Kit is consistant ;p.. And the AK-74s??

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

We can discuss your point in a different thread.

What about the the over all point, that regular armies are having to adapt to deal with insurgencies, while deviating from their intended specialisation.

In this case garuds.

As we all can see that in this century the World War on terrorism will be faught for god knows how many years.The Armies have to evolve and adapt to the situation.The NAVY SEALS were in Afghanistan and inside remote Iraqi places so the Garuds can also be in Kashmir doing something they were not raised for or else maybe not have the required experience when they are called for the primary job they were raised for.

Garuds have a really bad record for a SF.Things need to change.

Pathankot and one incident with a heli crash at a naxal operation is not a very good record on how a SF team should have performed.

There is no way a team of SF should get pinned down by jihadists trained for only a few month.There is no way in a naxal operation you leave other HUMANS to die and worry about only AF people.

 

[debspark90]

Ironically the best part of this picture is the fact that all the Kit is consistant ;p.. And the AK-74s??

Not AK74 !!
They are Bulgarian AR-SF from Arsenal