Indian Special Forces (archived)

[rkhanna]

Lastly @Immanuel

Agreed, what i am saying is glass half empty. But the reality is somewhere between what you and I are saying.

 

[ghost]

@Immanuel I have heard Gen Bikram singh saying that there is no Chinese government role in north east or with maoist as per his information.What is your source when you talk about Chinese supplying naxals and chinese covert force in north east.There are some chinese small arms smugglers involved ,but never heard of chinese government direct involvement in recent times.

 

[Vayuputra]

@Immanuel I have heard Gen Bikram singh saying that there is no Chinese government role in north east or with maoist as per his information.What is your source when you talk about Chinese supplying naxals and chinese covert force in north east.There are some chinese small arms smugglers involved ,but never heard of chinese government direct involvement in recent times.

Maoists receives arms and ammunition from local arms dealers who gets weapons from myanmar which are smugged from yunan province. They receive funds from NGOS and most cases they extort money local businessmen and traders.

 

[ghost]

SFF

NEGEV LMG

SHIPKA Sub-machine gun

 

[Vayuputra]

SFF

NEGEV LMG

SHIPKA Sub-machine gun

DO our armed forces carry pkm machine gun? I never seen a one with PKM

 

[ghost]

DO our armed forces carry pkm machine gun? I never seen a one with PKM

Bulgarian PK http://www.theakforum.net/forums/61-pk-pkm-gpmg/5004-bulgarian-pk-machine-gun-pics.html

Belongs to Special Frontier Force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Frontier_Force

 

[rkhanna]

Maoists receives arms and ammunition from local arms dealers who gets weapons from myanmar which are smugged from yunan province. They receive funds from NGOS and most cases they extort money local businessmen and traders.

The Maoist run one of the most sophisticated Smugling operation spaning Central /North India all the way to thailand / bangladesh/ Myanmaar. They Work hand in hand with local authorities (politicans and cops) in States like Chattisgargh, etc and take cuts from everything from road contracts to building permits. They earn money in the millions.

This NGO funds etc while true is such a small pittance in the pool its laughable. Just google the number of times yellow cake uranium has been caught with smugglers. will tell give you a hint to the range and scale of their criminal activities. Weapons, Drugs, Children, Gemstones, Women all get smuggled up and down the Naxal routes.

 

[Vayuputra]

you are right, they are everywhere, in police, government offices, politics. It reminds of an incident, in my earlier office, we used to have a security guard from chattisgarh's remote village, he said that naxals doesn't want naxal effected areas to develop. They are against good roads, telephone poles, towers etc. Every local cops knows where naxals lives and who all they are but they never disclose their identity to either crpf or other central forces. If a local police comes face to face with a naxals then they simply exchange lal salams and mind their own business.
\Coming to their salary package as told by my uncle who once served in Telangana greyhounds in late 2000s. As per their 2008 pay commission, a cadre gets paid rs9000 per month, area commander, between 25k -30k, district commander 55k-60k, state in charge gets paid between 1 lac - 1.5 lac. This is as per their 2008 pay commission.

 

[rkhanna]

< Cost posting something i posted on BR. > <too lazy to type it again>

<Context: Recent CRPF ambush that got 20 odd men killed. SOP's irrespective>

A cousin of mine recently finished shooting a movie deep in the middle of Naxal/Left Terror Territory in Chhattisgarh.

To get permission to shoot a CRPF company was deployed for "protection". The permission came after a Joint meeting with CRPF Commander, Local Politican Leader, Local Police Head and 2 Leaders of 2 different faction of Naxal Rebels all in attendence.

Through the 40 day shoot the CRPF troops were shit scared throughout enforcing pack-up of sheet by 5pm each day. Why? Because at any moment one of the Naxal leaders could change their mind. OR a third naxal faction looking to earn a name could become defiant. Or the Villagers could just be bored. etc etc. ALL villagers worked formally or informally with the Naxals.

The NAXALs btw run things there in 40 days over 100+kms of road was made while my cousin and his crew were shooting. The local cops said only possible if the naxals allow (and they take a BIG cut). Center/State Govt really dont have a say in this because well all Local Politicians are also hand and fist in it. ANY development is at the mercy of the Rebels. They are now simply businessmen (more and more remind me of the FARC etc who have turned into Drug Cartels in South America)

CRPF btw gets most likely caught in the politics and power struggles between Rebels + Different Rebel factions, Politicans and Local Cops. and as such are ALWAYS sitting ducks. One day a village that is friendly to them due to deals cut or previous understanding could sell them out and they are not prepared. They have ZERO autonomy to act or plan ops without interference.

 

[Bornubus]

Never leave a brother behind

 

[Immanuel]

"Original selection has been just as tough or even tougher, sure in the past it took slightly longer but since the training now is tougher it takes shorter time to find out who has what it takes to continue, the complete training duration has increased to well over 3-4 years. Sure initially some units were hurriedly converted but they eventually had to undergo plenty of retraining."

1. Training in the Para's NEVER stops. Its one school after the other, Incountry or in a foriegn country.
2. Para-SF today have a lesser average age than they did in the 90s. That should tell you something.


"Garud higher command has nothing to say but to ask for more, I have worked with the Garuds as recently as last month, they are very well trained for SEAD, Combat control, absolute nonsense that training is lacking in these areas. Since they are deployed at all major air bases, numbers had to be incrased and therefore another 1200 or so will be raised. DSC will have better training and equipment to cater to base protection duties and more companies will be raised. Not sure where you're getting this nonsense from. They are a combat proven unit and are being used currently as we speak far beyond our borders as well. "

1. Unfortunately I am saying the same thing. I have heard what i am saying from the HORSES mouth. Their SEAD training is limited. AF is not giving them the ranges to practice. and Combat Contollers? They needed to learn to imbedd with Army units to act as Combat Controllers. They cant act isolation. This training so far has been Rudimentary.

2. Deploying them en-mass in bases proves my point of AF Brass not hvaing a clue on deploying SOF Resources.

Quick fix for everything has become SF. Anything else is a BS Excuse.


"All this yada yada about jointness is not needed, it is long term effort that needs plenty of rethinking and all services needed to be re-organized. There have been a lot of clandestine meetings on this lately and I can tell you things are moving in the right direction. SOCOM is merely one branch within this whole discussion of Theater Commands.
"

Sorry but Jointness has been in the thinking since the end of Kargil. Thats a decade and a half. Anything on the matter is excuses. Our Generals have become politicans and are protecting their turf. Simple.

Everybody has read the new "2017" Mision plan from MOD. With a lot of snickers. SOCOM will be last on the last.

And about jointness not being Needed. I am sorry. Almost EVERY major power has a Joint SOF command integrated with Aviation Assets and Intelligence Grid. The benefits and reasons for that are simply not deniable.


"Also quite ridiculous to keep thinking that SF is called in every time some pigs show up. Most of the kill work in Kashmir is done by RR, Ghataks and they run plenty of ops. SF is called in when they are with in a short distance and/or is HVTs are known to be present in the area. Let me ask you this, what is the strategic value of Goswami sitting in Agra waiting to combat free fall into enemy lines. You demonstrate little understanding on what really happens. Surgical strikes, cross border raids are done almost monthly. "

Sorry. Look at last 12 months Casualty reports of SF. It is all simple Tactical Maneuvering for as you put it "some pigs". If it walks like a duck, looks like duck ....

Strategic value of Goswami in Agra is that he is alive.

Also you didnt read what i said completely. The Goswamnis of the world have always been in J&K. They did CTR deep inside POK, They did Raids outside the public eye inside and across the border for TSD. They operated alongside Ikhawanis giving india STRATEGIC gains in the fight against terorrism.



Shitty comms are a myth so stop bullshittting, we are using the most modern in SDRs. Let me clarify, the Myanmar raid was most importantly a kill mission against a PLA covert unit working with the rebels. This PLA unit was involved in the planning and execution of the ambush which was a clever hit. During the Ambush, lot of the surviving soldiers reported severe comms failure, clearly they were jammed. Afte

Wrong. We can hide under a blanket and pretend everything is hungydory and then a 26/11 happens and everybody goes on about how badly the NSG is equiped. This is someting every member on BR and other def forums did. "Our SF are fine you dont know anything attitude is getting operators killed" We are doing the same here. Refusing to even acknowledge a gap exists.

Also the OP from INfil (i.e from initial planning) required ZERO Comm but Indian Cellphones. If our commes failed its because Our Comms like our optics are 2 generations old. And THATS the fact. Opfor has superior EW assets then we do.

So excuses like PLA state of the art, etc etc are BS. because our State of the Art is still playing catch up to everybody.

As a family member recently told me. The Single most powerful weapon in a SF soldiers arsenal is his radio. Its NOT fancy gear. Its bread and butter.


Lastly - What i am saying is that our SF are falling between stools of a Civilan Bureaucracy that doesnt understand them and Conventional Military Leadership that is playing politics with them. And that will continue to hurt us in the long run.

As an example Just look at the toll taken on our Submarine Arm from neglect from all quarters.

PS on the PLA angle. unfortantely cant respond as i dont know. But if you ever in the Bombay Area we can have a beer and compare notes

Listen buddy, I am involved in this business for over 10 years on many things ordinary citizens are not privy to. I have been working with the MOD, PMO directly for many years now, started with the lethargic UPA. I broke details here of the surgical strikes even most senior general in the IA didn't know about. When I tell you something you can believe it to be true to a good extent. Having worked with PMO, Military Intel and MOD for many years, I have some very high level sources.

As said I have been involved with the Garuds as early last month and have personally witnessed a nice little exercise where SEAD, combat control was demonstrated, so please don't give me hogwash about what they train on and don't.

Para SF, Garuds, MARCOS, SFF and others never stop training, though their formal training last 3-4 years. Sure, they play catch-up in equipment but training wise they are on par with other Tier-1 SF units. Some units and battalions are better than others but that's normal.

IAF keeps Garuds at various bases of strategic importance for additional security though DSC covers primary security. Shortly DSC will have better structuring including QRT and it's own commandos to better cater to their mandate.

Learn how to read, I said your whining about jointness is not needed. Often a lot of BS is put out in public to keep our enemies guessing. Mission Plan 2017, Coldstart etc are half truths to say the least. Joint commands will happen. Discussions began a long time ago but warfare has changed quite a bit since Kargil. The idea here is not to come together and sing 'Kumbaya' jointly when war comes about, idea is to be effective and that requires plenty of detailed discussion and at the moment the services are having to dig deep and find their true mandate since jointness also brings overlapping roles, assets, needs etc. Any changes also needs to cater to future changes in tactics, doctrine, threat perception.

I never said our SF is fine, they still need better equipment and that is a slow process as well and this will rely entirely on top brass and the MOD.

What do you mean our Optics are second generation? Do you mean our weapons sights, nope they are on par with other SF units with sights like the Zeiss, MAR, MEPRO MOR, Cobra, EO tech etc. NVDs can be better but again only few units have 4 gen '4 eyes' type optics. But with new MOU between BEL and Photonis, new gen optics will come in in a couple of years. Weapons wise we are OK, we could get better with DMRs, LMGs, ATGMs, all in the pipeline. But in term of physical toughness, multi terrain capability our SF's far out perform most if not all units in the world.

PLA is catching up in many areas true, but they have their latest and deadliest arsenal pointed at the US and India. Having the latest comms doesn't prevent OPFOR from finding ways to break through. All comms can be hacked, jammed and there are many ways to do it. your mighty SEALs, have had their comms breached to some extent as often as during the Yemen raid. With AFNET and similar networks for IN and IA coming up, in a couple of years the comms maturation will be force wide and we'll be better equipped comms wise but still don't expect the enemy as cunning like the PLA, PA to just stand there with earplugs.

So the point of Goswami being dead or alive is mute since he has been in Kashmir all along and died doing what he did best i.e killing pigs whether on this side or the other. You don't have to cry over a sacrifice he gladly made. When SF comes into action is a choice left to the commanders and if you don't trust that a commander knows what he is doing well then you might as well dig a hole and bury your head in the sand. Chain of command exists and area commanders certainly today have the freedom to decide. What is more important is to revamp majority of the central and state police forces which are antiquated, this is more the need of the hour. Until that happens RR, Infantry and mixed teams of SF will be used for COIN ops.

Wrong again, the good SF groups have long trained and over the past decades demonstrated working entirely on radio silence. I have personally seen and witnessed Marcos, NSG, Garuds, Greyhounds, SFF perform many simulated raids on hand gestures alone without a word being uttered. The most powerful weapon in the SF operator's arsenal is confidence and a never quit spirit, everything else is just an extension.

Between the politics, top brass of the services, budgets and demands of modern day warfare, I'd be happier if basic infantry standard kit (from a modern uniform, reliable weapon, BJPs, helmets, gloves, proper shoes, chest rigs, comms, knee pads, elbow pads and on and on) is made modern first, SF already has decent equipment but sure can be improved. As for how SF is used is open debate and I can tell you that they are used for their true purpose more often than they are not and I mean all SF units in the country than not just Para-SF. Lastly any force is only as good as it's experience and they know this. I can also divulge that a few small teams of Garuds and Marcos have been working with certain bad ass special mission units outside India for quite some time now; ever few month units are rotated. Also some very mixed badass units of teams exists for emergency strategic raids. Thankfully our SF work is clouded in a lot of secrecy with plenty of smoke and mirrors. There is a reason why a US nuke sub makes a stop in Goa and a US Globemaster lands in India while the raid on OBL is about to be green-lit, I don't know the full details but I have been assured from the powers that be that Indian help was instrumental for the OBL raid.

 

[ezsasa]

Listen buddy, I am involved in this business for over 10 years on many things ordinary citizens are not privy to. I have been working with the MOD, PMO directly for many years now, started with the lethargic UPA. I broke details here of the surgical strikes even most senior general in the IA didn't know about. When I tell you something you can believe it to be true to a good extent. Having worked with PMO, Military Intel and MOD for many years, I have some very high level sources.

As said I have been involved with the Garuds as early last month and have personally witnessed a nice little exercise where SEAD, combat control was demonstrated, so please don't give me hogwash about what they train on and don't.

Para SF, Garuds, MARCOS, SFF and others never stop training, though their formal training last 3-4 years. Sure, they play catch-up in equipment but training wise they are on par with other Tier-1 SF units. Some units and battalions are better than others but that's normal.

IAF keeps Garuds at various bases of strategic importance for additional security though DSC covers primary security. Shortly DSC will have better structuring including QRT and it's own commandos to better cater to their mandate.

Learn how to read, I said your whining about jointness is not needed. Often a lot of BS is put out in public to keep our enemies guessing. Mission Plan 2017, Coldstart etc are half truths to say the least. Joint commands will happen. Discussions began a long time ago but warfare has changed quite a bit since Kargil. The idea here is not to come together and sing 'Kumbaya' jointly when war comes about, idea is to be effective and that requires plenty of detailed discussion and at the moment the services are having to dig deep and find their true mandate since jointness also brings overlapping roles, assets, needs etc. Any changes also needs to cater to future changes in tactics, doctrine, threat perception.

I never said our SF is fine, they still need better equipment and that is a slow process as well and this will rely entirely on top brass and the MOD.

What do you mean our Optics are second generation? Do you mean our weapons sights, nope they are on par with other SF units with sights like the Zeiss, MAR, MEPRO MOR, Cobra, EO tech etc. NVDs can be better but again only few units have 4 gen '4 eyes' type optics. But with new MOU between BEL and Photonis, new gen optics will come in in a couple of years. Weapons wise we are OK, we could get better with DMRs, LMGs, ATGMs, all in the pipeline. But in term of physical toughness, multi terrain capability our SF's far out perform most if not all units in the world.

PLA is catching up in many areas true, but they have their latest and deadliest arsenal pointed at the US and India. Having the latest comms doesn't prevent OPFOR from finding ways to break through. All comms can be hacked, jammed and there are many ways to do it. your mighty SEALs, have had their comms breached to some extent as often as during the Yemen raid. With AFNET and similar networks for IN and IA coming up, in a couple of years the comms maturation will be force wide and we'll be better equipped comms wise but still don't expect the enemy as cunning like the PLA, PA to just stand there with earplugs.

So the point of Goswami being dead or alive is mute since he has been in Kashmir all along and died doing what he did best i.e killing pigs whether on this side or the other. You don't have to cry over a sacrifice he gladly made. When SF comes into action is a choice left to the commanders and if you don't trust that a commander knows what he is doing well then you might as well dig a hole and bury your head in the sand. Chain of command exists and area commanders certainly today have the freedom to decide. What is more important is to revamp majority of the central and state police forces which are antiquated, this is more the need of the hour. Until that happens RR, Infantry and mixed teams of SF will be used for COIN ops.

Wrong again, the good SF groups have long trained and over the past decades demonstrated working entirely on radio silence. I have personally seen and witnessed Marcos, NSG, Garuds, Greyhounds, SFF perform many simulated raids on hand gestures alone without a word being uttered. The most powerful weapon in the SF operator's arsenal is confidence and a never quit spirit, everything else is just an extension.

Between the politics, top brass of the services, budgets and demands of modern day warfare, I'd be happier if basic infantry standard kit (from a modern uniform, reliable weapon, BJPs, helmets, gloves, proper shoes, chest rigs, comms, knee pads, elbow pads and on and on) is made modern first, SF already has decent equipment but sure can be improved. As for how SF is used is open debate and I can tell you that they are used for their true purpose more often than they are not and I mean all SF units in the country than not just Para-SF. Lastly any force is only as good as it's experience and they know this. I can also divulge that a few small teams of Garuds and Marcos have been working with certain bad ass special mission units outside India for quite some time now; ever few month units are rotated. Also some very mixed badass units of teams exists for emergency strategic raids. Thankfully our SF work is clouded in a lot of secrecy with plenty of smoke and mirrors. There is a reason why a US nuke sub makes a stop in Goa and a US Globemaster lands in India while the raid on OBL is about to be green-lit, I don't know the full details but I have been assured from the powers that be that Indian help was instrumental for the OBL raid.

Wow, that's quite a confidence building post....

Bless you.....

 

[rkhanna]

Listen buddy, I am involved in this business for over 10 years on many things ordinary citizens are not privy to. I have been working with the MOD, PMO directly for many years now, started with the lethargic UPA. I broke details here of the surgical strikes even most senior general in the IA didn't know about. When I tell you something you can believe it to be true to a good extent. Having worked with PMO, Military Intel and MOD for many years, I have some very high level sources.

Fairneough. Not getting into a d#ck measuring contest with you. just as an FYI my family has been in this "business" dating back to WWII.

Ending this now.

 

[silicon3]

Listen buddy, I am involved in this business for over 10 years on many things ordinary citizens are not privy to. I have been working with the MOD, PMO directly for many years now, started with the lethargic UPA. I broke details here of the surgical strikes even most senior general in the IA didn't know about. When I tell you something you can believe it to be true to a good extent. Having worked with PMO, Military Intel and MOD for many years, I have some very high level sources.

As said I have been involved with the Garuds as early last month and have personally witnessed a nice little exercise where SEAD, combat control was demonstrated, so please don't give me hogwash about what they train on and don't.

Para SF, Garuds, MARCOS, SFF and others never stop training, though their formal training last 3-4 years. Sure, they play catch-up in equipment but training wise they are on par with other Tier-1 SF units. Some units and battalions are better than others but that's normal.

IAF keeps Garuds at various bases of strategic importance for additional security though DSC covers primary security. Shortly DSC will have better structuring including QRT and it's own commandos to better cater to their mandate.

Learn how to read, I said your whining about jointness is not needed. Often a lot of BS is put out in public to keep our enemies guessing. Mission Plan 2017, Coldstart etc are half truths to say the least. Joint commands will happen. Discussions began a long time ago but warfare has changed quite a bit since Kargil. The idea here is not to come together and sing 'Kumbaya' jointly when war comes about, idea is to be effective and that requires plenty of detailed discussion and at the moment the services are having to dig deep and find their true mandate since jointness also brings overlapping roles, assets, needs etc. Any changes also needs to cater to future changes in tactics, doctrine, threat perception.

I never said our SF is fine, they still need better equipment and that is a slow process as well and this will rely entirely on top brass and the MOD.

What do you mean our Optics are second generation? Do you mean our weapons sights, nope they are on par with other SF units with sights like the Zeiss, MAR, MEPRO MOR, Cobra, EO tech etc. NVDs can be better but again only few units have 4 gen '4 eyes' type optics. But with new MOU between BEL and Photonis, new gen optics will come in in a couple of years. Weapons wise we are OK, we could get better with DMRs, LMGs, ATGMs, all in the pipeline. But in term of physical toughness, multi terrain capability our SF's far out perform most if not all units in the world.

PLA is catching up in many areas true, but they have their latest and deadliest arsenal pointed at the US and India. Having the latest comms doesn't prevent OPFOR from finding ways to break through. All comms can be hacked, jammed and there are many ways to do it. your mighty SEALs, have had their comms breached to some extent as often as during the Yemen raid. With AFNET and similar networks for IN and IA coming up, in a couple of years the comms maturation will be force wide and we'll be better equipped comms wise but still don't expect the enemy as cunning like the PLA, PA to just stand there with earplugs.

So the point of Goswami being dead or alive is mute since he has been in Kashmir all along and died doing what he did best i.e killing pigs whether on this side or the other. You don't have to cry over a sacrifice he gladly made. When SF comes into action is a choice left to the commanders and if you don't trust that a commander knows what he is doing well then you might as well dig a hole and bury your head in the sand. Chain of command exists and area commanders certainly today have the freedom to decide. What is more important is to revamp majority of the central and state police forces which are antiquated, this is more the need of the hour. Until that happens RR, Infantry and mixed teams of SF will be used for COIN ops.

Wrong again, the good SF groups have long trained and over the past decades demonstrated working entirely on radio silence. I have personally seen and witnessed Marcos, NSG, Garuds, Greyhounds, SFF perform many simulated raids on hand gestures alone without a word being uttered. The most powerful weapon in the SF operator's arsenal is confidence and a never quit spirit, everything else is just an extension.

Between the politics, top brass of the services, budgets and demands of modern day warfare, I'd be happier if basic infantry standard kit (from a modern uniform, reliable weapon, BJPs, helmets, gloves, proper shoes, chest rigs, comms, knee pads, elbow pads and on and on) is made modern first, SF already has decent equipment but sure can be improved. As for how SF is used is open debate and I can tell you that they are used for their true purpose more often than they are not and I mean all SF units in the country than not just Para-SF. Lastly any force is only as good as it's experience and they know this. I can also divulge that a few small teams of Garuds and Marcos have been working with certain bad ass special mission units outside India for quite some time now; ever few month units are rotated. Also some very mixed badass units of teams exists for emergency strategic raids. Thankfully our SF work is clouded in a lot of secrecy with plenty of smoke and mirrors. There is a reason why a US nuke sub makes a stop in Goa and a US Globemaster lands in India while the raid on OBL is about to be green-lit, I don't know the full details but I have been assured from the powers that be that Indian help was instrumental for the OBL raid.

This is by far one post I have read with the greatest interest and is what makes coming to this forum worth the while.. fascinating read.. thoroughly enjoyed reading it..infact went through tit 2-3 times to digest it slowly and savour the information in it.. cheers to you man.

 

[republic_roi97]

I can also divulge that a few small teams of Garuds and Marcos have been working with certain bad ass special mission units outside India for quite some time now; ever few month units are rotated. Also some very mixed badass units of teams exists for emergency strategic raids. Thankfully our SF work is clouded in a lot of secrecy with plenty of smoke and mirrors. There is a reason why a US nuke sub makes a stop in Goa and a US Globemaster lands in India while the raid on OBL is about to be green-lit, I don't know the full details but I have been assured from the powers that be that Indian help was instrumental for the OBL raid.

Bhai, tussi gr8 ho.
I always had full faith on our armed forces and I knew that they are competent enough. This just reenforces it. Thanks for this post.

 

[reddevil9]

One of the most heart rending quote.........

 

[abingdonboy]

1. Para-SF expansion over the past decade has been extremely quick. Our "higher-ups" still think throwing tavors at somebody and they become "commandos". back in the day even the cooks in the Paras had to go through Selection. Today Selection has been condensed to the "toughest part"

Old news, was an issue 5 years ago but has been rectified now.

"
2. Garuds still doing primarily Sensitive Site protection duty. Almost ZERO training as combat controllers even though that was their tasking

Somewhat true but Garuds are still young and building up their capacity bit by bit.

. Equipment upgrade seems to keep Babudum and media happy.

Yes, equipment upgrade is a joke.

Not spending more money on better ranges and more bullets for practice

No, SF have no limitations on their training/practive.

NSG still doesnt get REAL planes to assault but has to do with mock-ups

Not true, NSG train on real airliners multiple times a year at various major airports in India, the only thing is they don't have a proper plane at their training base in Mansear (although there was/is a proposal to get one).

Joint SpecOps Command still in limbo

Very true, dont know what the f*ck the MoD/GoI is doing sitting on this.

5. No Dedicated Aviation units.

Not true, IN and IA both have dedicated Spec Ops rotary wing flights/SQNs (as does the IAF?) and IAF maintains dedicated Spec Ops fixed wing transports.

SF units still have shitty comms. The Raid in Myanmar was done with Comms over cellphone because Radio Transmission could be intercepted.

SFs were first to use software defined radios, now entire military is moving over to this.

 

[abingdonboy]

There is a reason why a US nuke sub makes a stop in Goa and a US Globemaster lands in India while the raid on OBL is about to be green-lit, I don't know the full details but I have been assured from the powers that be that Indian help was instrumental for the OBL raid.

Sorry bro, if this was true we would know about it. US wasn't exactly shy about giving details on the OBL mission, they made a blockbuster movie about the incident and multiple documentaries and many members of the SF team that undertook the mission wrote first hand accounts of the mission. India has never been mentioned as an aid, not even an utterance.

The Obama administration would have leaked this detail had it been true.

 

[rkhanna]

@abingdonboy Dont take the conversation further please. Not all Immanuel said is entirely true but there is enough there that should never have been said on any public forum. Just LET IT GO NOW.

 

[rkhanna]

Old news, was an issue 5 years ago but has been rectified now.

You missed my point. We RE-SET The Clock on this. My original post was talking about the SOFREP article and drawing parallels.

We went for Quantity instead of quality and are now filling the gaps. Is that the best way?

Garud's are now in expansion mode. Will we repeat mistakes? We in India have a unique ability to continue repeating mistakes.


↑
"
Somewhat true but Garuds are still young and building up their capacity bit by bit.

The Garuds have done SEAD missions in RedFlag with aplomb. But again my point got missed. IAF heirachy still is not allocating enough resources to build a strong foundation or their capability. Garuds assume the role of AFSOC and be split into units that have dedicated Roles

1. SEAD / Combat Controllers - Need to work with Regular Para's to bring up capability
2. CSAR -
3. C-Infil / Force Protection


↑
No, SF have no limitations on their training/practive.

Today an avg Army SF soldier is shooting 100 bullets a week. Their Internal requirement is for 3x that. 100 bullets a week is phenomenal - but they themselves see areas to improve.
I know atleast 1 pre-fab Shooting range requested that was turned down because of budget.

Hell till a couple of years ago CRPF Cobras while being issued tavors and practiced on Tavors were not allowed to leave on ops with the Tavors incase they got damanged or stolen - it would make the IPS babudom look bad.

There are also a few kit MARCOS has requested for long but been denied (will not post what here)

↑
Not true, NSG train on real airliners multiple times a year at various major airports in India, the only thing is they don't have a proper plane at their training base in Mansear (although there was/is a proposal to get one).

Yes NSG does train on planes once in a while. But they need to be able to rip apart an airplane and know its inner workings. (Elevators, Cargo doors, AC vents, Engine Vents, etc etc) I know somebody proposed buying ex KF planes for scrap but not gone anywhere.


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Very true, dont know what the f*ck the MoD/GoI is doing sitting on this.

SOCOM is the will of the Armed Forces. Lets not just blame MOD. Hell if the Army couldnt seperated SF into a different regiment try putting them all under a new command.


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Not true, IN and IA both have dedicated Spec Ops rotary wing flights/SQNs (as does the IAF?) and IAF maintains dedicated Spec Ops fixed wing transports.

When i say dedicated i mean the pilots sleep / eat and piss together with the shooters. They are located on the same base. They know each other in an out and trust is built through day in and day out practice. Today the "ONLY" dedicated SOF Rotoary wing Unit is the the Army Gideon - but its still Army Aviation.

The C-130s are SpecOps marked but are still AF assets. Those pilots do a lot of stuff inbetween as well as Support SF troops.

Those PILOTS need to be treated as SOF forces and trained as such - This again is where JOINTNESS comes in.

SOF Assets are not the Planes - EW Gear, NVG , night flying etc etc. Its the Pilots

Today we only fighting within our borders with no Air Over enemy/denied land. So we dont feel the need. The day we do it maybe too late.


SFs were first to use software defined radios, now entire military is moving over to this.

Yes comms has seen an improvement but it is still the step child. And we still have a loong way to go is all i am saying.