Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Blademaster]

Yeah, no
8 SSNs and 20+ SSKs

Then you will only have 3 nuke subs available for active patrol. That's not enough to safeguard India's LOCs against her enemies.

 

[Blademaster]

...why this much unavailability??...i thought nuclear subs need less maintenance. do diesel submarine also face that much low availability?

Nope. Take a look at the USN nuke submarine program. They have pretty much maintained a 1:3 ratio when it comes to deployment of nuke subs. They have 51 nuke subs in active commission and only 1/3 of them is deployed at any given time.

 

[vin bharat mahan]

Nope. Take a look at the USN nuke submarine program. They have pretty much maintained a 1:3 ration when it comes to deployment of nuke subs. They have 51 nuke subs in active commission and only 1/3 of them is deployed at any given time.

than its better we should more focus to achieve 24 diesel submarine nd some UUV (unmanned underwater vehicle) submarines which can carry some torpedos. so we hv more submarine aviable to guard our seas. its said that diesel submarine r more stealthy. even in some exercises diesel submarine win against SSN. like our kilo class win against american Colombia class in 2015 exercise. SSN hv higher range nd more endurance advantage.

 

[Blademaster]

than its better we should more focus to achieve 24 diesel submarine nd some UUV (unmanned underwater vehicle) submarines which can carry some torpedos. so we hv more submarine aviable to guard our seas. its said that diesel submarine r more stealthy. even in some exercises diesel submarine win against SSN. like our kilo class win against american Colombia class in 2015 exercise. SSN hv higher range nd more endurance advantage.

The problem is that you will not be able to man the chokepoints 24/7 during wartime.

 

[binayak95]

SSNs are meant for escorting SSBNs and deep strike into SCS. not for IOR ops.

Then you will only have 3 nuke subs available for active patrol. That's not enough to safeguard India's LOCs against her enemies.

 

[Blademaster]

that decommissioning bs was because of the shitty LCS program and its fucked up mission creep which killed a fundamentally sound idea

IIRC, they were trying to keep their ships light as possible so they could undertake many mission in a gator ship mode. So to keep that ship light as possible, they went for the lightest materials they could such as aluminum. But the problem was that there were too much stress on the aluminum frame so they started developing cracks. As a result, they became combat worthless.

 

[binayak95]

IIRC, they were trying to keep their ships light as possible so they could undertake many mission in a gator ship mode. So to keep that ship light as possible, they went for the lightest materials they could such as aluminum. But the problem was that there were too much stress on the aluminum frame so they started developing cracks. As a result, they became combat worthless.

and their combining gears (the clutch and transmission that is used to switch between diesel and GT) is highly unreliable. With 4 major incidents of ships having to be towed/limp back to home ports and scores of minor everyday chutzpah.

And the mission module concept ballooned the price astronomically for the ships.

 

[Blademaster]

and their combining gears (the clutch and transmission that is used to switch between diesel and GT) is highly unreliable. With 4 major incidents of ships having to be towed/limp back to home ports and scores of minor everyday chutzpah.

And the mission module concept ballooned the price astronomically for the ships.

Yeah but those issues were fixable and repairable. Hull cracks were not. Those cracks caused the ships to be operationally confined to speed of 15 knots or less and at sea keeping state level 3-4 or less. That makes the ship worthless in combat situations. That's not fixable at all.

 

[binayak95]

Yeah but those issues were fixable and repairable. Hull cracks were not. Those cracks caused the ships to be operationally confined to speed of 15 knots or less and at sea keeping state level 3-4 or less. That makes the ship worthless in combat situations. That's not fixable at all.

Yeah the independence class is a shitshow

 

[abingdonboy]

Already under development by IN

Because, like FSS, for some reason Minesweepers was declared unobtainable by the IN so they’ve gone for this experiment, but shortcuts rarely work when it comes to building credible military capacity

they’ll likely be in the same mess 10 years from now especially having been distracted by this concept.

It sort of reminds me of the MH govt/Ministry of railways signing MoUs for hyper loop because HSR is so expensive and hyper loop advertises itself as cheaper and faster, the only problem is it’s snake oil and will never be operationalised

 

[abingdonboy]

We could make Myanmar a "protectorate" and write a constitution for them. Something similar to what US wrote for Japan. We can justify our actions by pointing at the junta.
Myanmar will solve multiple problems. NE insurgency, Connection from the NE to the Sea. 100% surrounding BD, Easier access to SEA and even oil if nneeded. It will also take our missiles closer to the Chinese population.

Bhutan is a protectorate of India’s is it not? Apparently in recent months they’ve been getting pretty pally with the Commies

India’s mismanagement of relations with its immediate neighbours will never fail to amaze me. Countries 1/100th its size are dictating terms to india

 

[abingdonboy]

Short sighted people with defeatist attitude have always been a problem in India.
Status quo people live in a fantasy.
Change is inevitable. The only question is 'Do you want it to be in your favor!?'

I sincerely think a significant % of India’s population have bought into the utopian pacifist world view of Nehru and his descendants from the Cold War onwards.

India has systematically punched below its weight for
Its entire independent history. The 1980s were perhaps the most active india has ever been in shaping its neighbourhood using hard power but after that the lazy ‘soft power’ approach returned.

IAS/IFS officers continue to dominate the equation and their thinking is dominated by traditional international relations thinking which exposes diplomacy at all costs

 

[binayak95]

Because, like FSS, for some reason Minesweepers was declared unobtainable by the IN so they’ve gone for this experiment, but shortcuts rarely work when it comes to building credible military capacity

they’ll likely be in the same mess 10 years from now especially having been distracted by this concept.

It sort of reminds me of the MH govt/Ministry of railways signing MoUs for hyper loop because HSR is so expensive and hyper loop advertises itself as cheaper and faster, the only problem is it’s snake oil and will never be operationalised

Regarding Mines, the IN has adopted a very practical approach, that of mating OPVs and FACs with demining kits, and in the near future, unmanned solutions to both mining and demining.

 

[abingdonboy]

Regarding Mines, the IN has adopted a very practical approach, that of mating OPVs and FACs with demining kits, and in the near future, unmanned solutions to both mining and demining.

Yes, band aid solutions, or should I say jugaad- the standard SOP for Indian mil when their pipe dreams fail to be realised.

the unmanned concept is a nice idea if it was explored in parallel to conventional dedicated minsweepers but putting all the eggs in unproven tech that not even the richest navies in the world will make their backbone seems like a recipe for failure 10 years from now

 

[abingdonboy]

Look at the rule of 3 when it comes to nuke subs. One on active patrol, one on downtime/uptime and one in active maintenance. We need at least 2 nuke subs against Pakistan. 4 nuke subs against China and 2 in reserve against a 3rd enemy. That's 8 active subs.

There needs to be at least 1-1 parity between SSN and SSBN, one of the primary missions of SSNs is an area escort for SSBNs

this is before you even get into Hunter-killer roles for
Enemy SSN/SSBN/surface vessels

this is why SSNs should be pursued as a national mission on par with SSBNs, without them the second strike capability is at best nominal but not credible.

of course the clown class come Up with the brilliant plan for 3+3 15-20 years from now, by when India’s economy will be $15trillion+++ and the PLA(N) will likely have >30 of the things

 

[abingdonboy]

Yeah, no
8 SSNs and 20+ SSKs

Even this seems a fantasy before 2045 based on the IN’s current plans. At this rate the P75s will be the only SSK left in 10-15 years

metal cutting on the first SSN hasn’t even started, the Aussies will have SSNs before the IN (not including Russian leases)

 

[abingdonboy]

That's the hardest part and the most expensive part.

Automation reduces crew requirements in Western fleets by at least 50%

i do agree the human capital element is the Chinese’s biggest weakness but they are far more innovative and technically minded than any Indian service so they’ll find solutions

 

[abingdonboy]

than its better we should more focus to achieve 24 diesel submarine nd some UUV (unmanned underwater vehicle) submarines which can carry some torpedos. so we hv more submarine aviable to guard our seas. its said that diesel submarine r more stealthy. even in some exercises diesel submarine win against SSN. like our kilo class win against american Colombia class in 2015 exercise. SSN hv higher range nd more endurance advantage.

24 SSK has been the IN’s goal for over 40 years now. They are no closer today than they were 20 years ago

More RFIs and 6 unit production runs to the rescue

the Pak navy will have more AIP equipped SSK come 2030s than the IN will (as of today and for the foreseeable the IN doesn’t have a single AIP equipped sub Even in production )

 

[binayak95]

24 SSK has been the IN’s goal for over 40 years now. They are no closer today than they were 20 years ago

More RFIs and 6 unit production runs to the rescue

the Pak navy will have more AIP equipped SSK come 2030s than the IN will (as of today and for the foreseeable the IN doesn’t have a single AIP equipped sub Even in production )

Pak? naa - they are utterly ruined by their economy. they arent even getting batteries. Its the chinks i am worried about

 

[abingdonboy]

Pak? naa - they are utterly ruined by their economy. they arent even getting batteries. Its the chinks i am worried about

The PN already has AIP equipped SSK (Agostas) and the commies are making another 8 for them (Hangor class), to the IN’s exactly 0 AIP equipped SSK in service/in production

the Pakis took the ‘eat grass’ concept to heart, their military junta will get its toys

the Chinese are playing the long game indeed, ‘string of pearls’ is real and whilst it’s not been a popular term in recent years it’s very much building up. They have bases or berthing rights across the IOR now and will be routinely deploying to the IOR within the next 5-7 years

the IN seems to have already re-orientated and gone very defensive by focusing heavily on ASW but that leaves a pretty open goal to the PLA(N) to start playing in their backyard