Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[binayak95]

American equipment might be better/ cheaper whatever.. but once sanctions hit we will be sitting with thenga .. They have done it before with us and are doing so with turkey today . Its better that we hedge our bets.

This very thing - of US sanctions and fears of the same are so passe. They dare not sanction us now because the consequences would be severe - for all concerned.
And b, India needs the US as much as the US needs India.

I keep repeating this ad nauseum, but we are already in a defacto alliance with the US.
We exercise with US military more than anyone else. We actively cooperate with USN and USAF units for logistics, ISR, for tracking Chinese n subs from their base is the Yellow Sea to IOR.
US military units were directly involved (C17s and C130s) in airlifting tonnes and tonnes of supplies during the first winter post galwan - and this is all in public info, classified stuff is bonkers - and the USN pays for and maintains 2 MQ9s that are operating entirely at IN's disposal for 2 freaking years.

There are no friends in geopolitics, just interests and alignment, and right now our interests are best served with the QUAD (both QUADs)

 

[karn]

This very thing - of US sanctions and fears of the same are so passe. They dare not sanction us now because the consequences would be severe - for all concerned.
And b, India needs the US as much as the US needs India.

I keep repeating this ad nauseum, but we are already in a defacto alliance with the US.
We exercise with US military more than anyone else. We actively cooperate with USN and USAF units for logistics, ISR, for tracking Chinese n subs from their base is the Yellow Sea to IOR.
US military units were directly involved (C17s and C130s) in airlifting tonnes and tonnes of supplies during the first winter post galwan - and this is all in public info, classified stuff is bonkers - and the USN pays for and maintains 2 MQ9s that are operating entirely at IN's disposal for 2 freaking years.

There are no friends in geopolitics, just interests and alignment, and right now our interests are best served with the QUAD (both QUADs)

That's just presentisim... And everything you mentioned is in the context of countering cheen. If that goes away or if we have other interests unrelated to or aligning with china all this will go away.
The US has a dejure alliance with turkey but that did help when turkey decided to pursue a path that was contrairian to us interests.
I do hope you are watching the steps the US is taking with their other dejure allies in West Asia
This level of US involvement/ depedance is worrying.

 

[binayak95]

That's just presentisim... And everything you mentioned is in the context of countering cheen. If that goes away or if we have other interests all this will go away.
The US has a dejure alliance with turkey but that did help when turkey decided to pursue a path that was contrairian to us interests.
This level of US involvement/ depedance is worrying.

exactly my point - do you see the cheen going away anytime soon?

 

[karn]

exactly my point - do you see the cheen going away anytime soon?

It's possible .. or the us might make good with china.. where does that leave us ?

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

It's possible .. or the us might make good with china.. where does that leave us ?

The US might "make good" with the country trying tooth and nail to bring down the US? Not happening. A formal alliance with US is bad, but a partnership with them will be very beneficial. And sure, I agree we should sanction proof our stuff - But if you think US can push us around like it did to Turkey you have a very low view of our own importance. US needs us, like we need them.

 

[Love Charger]

I think you confused between native indians with indians, here we are talking about India, officially the Republic of India, is a country in South Asia and its navy.
For your info, IN choose the best jets which meet its requirements, not your fantasy.
It doesn't matter which is the best, but what IN needed, and if EU can buy dog shit helo, then why IN can't buy rafale ?? Republic of India already brought rafale for IAF and can do same for IN without any delay.

@binayak95. Is a retired naval officer sir, he probably knows what he is talking about

 

[Suryavanshi]

I feel like China vs US enmity is overblown.
Largest trade partner being chinese and lots of US financial capital invested in Chinese Bizness not only direct but also indirectly through Hong Kong and Singapore.
It is not something we can take advantage out of in the long term.
Containing Chinese Military expansion is on the table but I don't think there is anything on the economic front.
Trump did all the cheat beating and for what? Better trade deal it was. Now that Biden is back old darling is being courted again.

 

[karn]

The US might "make good" with the country trying tooth and nail to bring down the US? Not happening. A formal alliance with US is bad, but a partnership with them will be very beneficial. And sure, I agree we should sanction proof our stuff - But if you think US can push us around like it did to Turkey you have a very low view of our own importance. US needs us, like we need them.

I suppose I do .. Do tell me what is our importance with regards to the US.

 

[Blademaster]

I suppose I do .. Do tell me what is our importance with regards to the US.

US hoping to make us pawns & cannon fodder against China and supplicant to the US in the rest of the world.

 

[binayak95]

I suppose I do .. Do tell me what is our importance with regards to the US.

Only nation in Asia (alongside japan) that has the economical weight to stand toe to toe to China - while not having the population time bomb that Japan has.
Massive market size, massive human capital, massive military.

and before you come to China US trade ties, and US economic intertwining with China, they atleast have forced US tech companies to gtfo from china. have actively called out chinese industrial espionage and are actively preventing chinks from getting the latest tech?
Indians? our bizzness men will do anything to get chini dollars - including acting as middlemen to sell high tech gear from US corporations to china

 

[binayak95]

@binayak95. Is a retired naval officer sir, he probably knows what he is talking about

Not retired in the way that most do, mindyou but medically out of commission XD
i am still young - or so i keep telling myself.

 

[Love Charger]

Not retired in the way that most do, mindyou but medically out of commission XD
i am still young - or so i keep telling myself.

So you still in service? And can rejoin if medical condition is improves

 

[binayak95]

So you still in service? And can rejoin if medical condition is improves

No no, I am out. And i cant rejoin - nor do I intend to. I am doing good work where I am right now. Leave it at that

 

[Love Charger]

No no, I am out. And i cant rejoin - nor do I intend to. I am doing good work where I am right now. Leave it at that

Okay sir , be happy and well always happy .

 

[arnabmit]

Current PRC is not anti-USA or anti-India. Not since the last two decades. Current PRC is the leader of the global leftist new world order. Dems of USA, Labor of UK & Australia, INC of India, etc. are allies of the current PRC, as long as these allies are happy to look the other way in exchange of commission, while PRC salami slices either territory or economy.

So, no, USA under Dems, and their leftist deep state will never be an ally of India, as long as Hindus are in charge. Purely profit motivated countries like France/SoKo/Israel are a much safer bet when it comes to military hardware. Profit-motivation of US companies are beholden to their leftist deep-state.

 

[Javelin_Sam]

Yeh Sanctions ka Jhunjhana bajana band karo ab. For 2-3 decade every one is saying Sanctions Sanctions.

US sanction on Iran did not stop Iran to operate the F-14 Tomcats. There was no kill switch in it. They managed to secure parts from black market until that was stopped by US and then Iran started mothballing other remaining F-14.

They have older US planes also which they reversed engineering and started building operating new indigenous copies.

And how many hours does Iranian F-14 clocked annually?. Say that to IAF and IN again. A fighter in Indian scenario is dead if it has to be preserved somewhere saving valuable flight hours left if any parts embargo crops up

 

[johnj]

@binayak95. Is a retired naval officer sir, he probably knows what he is talking about

Like buying foreign mall. The point is - IN make their decisions considering multiple factors and he only considering total nos of sh but ignoring rest, its like IAF demanding for 114~150 EU jets. Bring EA18G and F35B is not helpful becz US gov yet to approve the sale of those to India, matter of fact, last time I heard, US Congress yet to approve the sale of apg-79 to India, and consider the sale after india choose sh with some conditions.
He is saying exactly what I said earlier, and that is what navy told during that time, now some article says IN choose rafale, why - I don't know and retired naval office repeating ''F18 is a better carrier bird because of sheer numbers, experience, support system and'' [he hoping]''the ability brought on the table by the EA18''.

 

[R A Varun]

Dont know why sudden love for Rafale-M!!
F/A-18 is literally the best naval aircraft out there with best of tech and capabilities.

ease of maintenace and interusability on land in task with the existing airforce version.
It requires less inventory variations and less training time to understand the tactics. airforce pilots can be directly trained in tandem to take off and land on carriers when in shortage of men. during long deployments. giving the Tri-service interoperability a good shot.

if we go for f-18 it requires entirely new set of maintenance and logistics system. which will be inventory burden and only the IN pilots will be able to operate them and only from the f-18 specific airfields. they can't be used in along with IAF as their maintenance depots will be near naval bases further south.

It is a pure logistical point of view and their possible deployment with current rafales if required to take on pak and chinese aircrafts.

 

[johnj]

yeah yeah, get off your horse and slog in the grass.
dont lecture me about geography when i slogged years in Her service.
Arrogant youngsters with no real world experience nor a drop of wisdom in the vast emptiness between their ears.

Very funny, Sir
Love Charger told me you are a retired naval officer, and you need to understand that its not me, but IN chose rafale over SH, since you worked in the IN, you tell me why IN choose rafale ?? and I thought IN going to choose SH.
Plz don't bring EA18G, its confusing, and what about next AC[ catobar or stobar], and US support in next AC ??
Is their is any restrictions in using US weapons inside Pak territory[us allay] ??
Sale approval Apg79 to India ??
If IN choose sh, i support sh & if IN choose rafale, i support rafale.
[During mmrca, LM said buying f16 increases chances of f35 sales to india & more than 4500 f16 flying today -''F18 is a better carrier bird because of sheer numbers, experience, support system and the ability brought on the table by the EA18. '' - and at the end IAF selected eft & rafale]
How may money IN going to spend in R&D and purchase of tedbf ??

 

[karn]

Very funny, Sir
Love Charger told me you are a retired naval officer, and you need to understand that its not me, but IN chose rafale over SH, since you worked in the IN, you tell me why IN choose rafale ?? and I thought IN going to choose SH.
Plz don't bring EA18G, its confusing, and what about next AC[ catobar or stobar], and US support in next AC ??
Is their is any restrictions in using US weapons inside Pak territory[us allay] ??
Sale approval Apg79 to India ??
If IN choose sh, i support sh & if IN choose rafale, i support rafale.
[During mmrca, LM said buying f16 increases chances of f35 sales to india & more than 4500 f16 flying today -''F18 is a better carrier bird because of sheer numbers, experience, support system and the ability brought on the table by the EA18. '' - and at the end IAF selected eft & rafale]
How may money IN going to spend in R&D and purchase of tedbf ??

Nothing has been chosen yet .