Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[jai jaganath]

As far as I know, Project 18 class destroyers are still on drawing board as of now, Indian Navy did showcase P-18 class ships in a promotional video of theirs though.

Spoiler: This might be helpful.

I think u have the dfi episode of this particular topic
It's a representation of some Italian design with extra vls
Work of some cgi person
This is not p-18

 

[Super Flanker]

I think u have the dfi episode of this particular topic
It's a representation of some Italian design with extra vls
Work of some cgi person
This is not p-18

Apologies if I may have shared some wrong info on the topic, lately I have not been following some of the updates concerning the Indian Armed forces so I am not very sure about the status of most of the projects.

What I shared with you was from a article on Google which I found pertaining to P-18. Now i don't know whether it has connections to an Italian design or not.

Here is article link :

defenceview.in

This domain may be for sale!

www.defenceview.in

 

[arnabmit]

One accident - that too demonstrating the ability of the pilot to save himself and the aircraft, does not undo the stellar success of the F35 Program
There are more F35s flying today than there are total fighters in the IAF.

What is the measure of success of the F-35B? The measly 6000kg internal fuel or the max 6800kg of payload? Or it's flying bathtub aerodynamics? Or that the different variants can do duty as a submarine or a ground-digger? Let that stupid platform be for USA's NATO submissive partners, please spare us the horrors.

And, did you really attribute the basic performance criteria of a zero-zero seat as a stellar ability of F-35B?

 

[DumbPilot]

What is the measure of success of the F-35B? The measly 6000kg internal fuel or the max 6800kg of payload? Or it's flying bathtub aerodynamics? Or that the different variants can do duty as a submarine or a ground-digger? Let that stupid platform be for USA's NATO submissive partners, please spare us the horrors.

And, did you really attribute the basic performance criteria of a zero-zero seat as a stellar ability of F-35B?

The main strength of the F-35 lies in its sensor fusion and advanced electronics. They would wipe the floor with currently any other fighter.

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

The main strength of the F-35 lies in its sensor fusion and advanced electronics. They would wipe the floor with currently any other fighter.

Does US again making the same mistake that they done in Vietnam war where they removed canons from F-4, later added it when it feels the decision is wrong.

Putting too much emphasis on one area and compromised it on other areas. For me the F-22 is the only optimized 5th Gen Fighter since it has good stealth capability, decent Sensors and good dog fighting capability if required.

Other 5th Gen compromised on few fronts.
1. F-35 - Good sensor fusion. Questionable aerodynamics and weapons carrying capability, compromised rear ward stealth.
2. J-20 - Got good sensor like EOTS. But poor engine + poor aerodynamic design. Compromised stealth with canards.
3. SU-57 - Poor sensor + Engine. But good aerodynamic capability. Compromised stealth with rear side.
4. KF-21 - Compromised Stealth.


Interested to see how AMCA optimized on these parameters.

 

[binayak95]

What is the measure of success of the F-35B? The measly 6000kg internal fuel or the max 6800kg of payload? Or it's flying bathtub aerodynamics? Or that the different variants can do duty as a submarine or a ground-digger? Let that stupid platform be for USA's NATO submissive partners, please spare us the horrors.

And, did you really attribute the basic performance criteria of a zero-zero seat as a stellar ability of F-35B?

I was not referring to the zero zero MB seat, but rather the mere fact that the bird did not just combust into flames - as SHARs were wont to do.
And the mere fact that a VTOL bird exists that is VLO and Supersonic is miracle enough - that 6800 kg of payload might sound measly but it IS available on ships that dont have to be 75k tonnes plus - distributed lethality alone is worth its weight.

The F35Bs allow nations like Japan and Korea to have a serious carrier force, and allows small LHAs to act as force multipliers - makes adversarial calculations difficult and complex, and presents unique capabilities.

 

[arnabmit]

The main strength of the F-35 lies in its sensor fusion and advanced electronics. They would wipe the floor with currently any other fighter.

True that, it would be an awesome W&C platform, since it has the flying characteristics of a narrowbody airliner anyway.

 

[arnabmit]

I was not referring to the zero zero MB seat, but rather the mere fact that the bird did not just combust into flames - as SHARs were wont to do.
And the mere fact that a VTOL bird exists that is VLO and Supersonic is miracle enough - that 6800 kg of payload might sound measly but it IS available on ships that dont have to be 75k tonnes plus - distributed lethality alone is worth its weight.

The F35Bs allow nations like Japan and Korea to have a serious carrier force, and allows small LHAs to act as force multipliers - makes adversarial calculations difficult and complex, and presents unique capabilities.

Yes, you're correct. F-35B is an awesome force multiplier for the US marines or nations whose flagships are LHDs, not carriers.

However, the B variant can never be a substitute of a true-blue carrier-based fighter (unlike the C variant, which is great for only specific VLO recce or DEAD missions, supported by 4.5+ Gen fighters for the grunt work.)

Rafale-M and F/A-18 are the only 2 fighters capable of doing the said grunt work for the navy.

 

[DumbPilot]

Other 5th Gen compromised on few fronts.
1. F-35 - Good sensor fusion. Questionable aerodynamics and weapons carrying capability, compromised rear ward stealth.

True that, it would be an awesome W&C platform, since it has the flying characteristics of a narrowbody airliner anyway.

It does not have the flying characteristics of a narrowbody airliner..


You can criticize the F-35 in many domains, but performance(kinetic or electronic) is not one of them. In regards to physical maneuverability, the F-35 has something no other 4th gen fighter has -- the payload bays.

This means that the F-35 can perform aerodynamically as if it was carrying no bombs/missiles, even if it was carrying them -- other airplanes can't, because they have to attach pylons and the weapons as an addition to the airframe's aerodynamical envelope, not inside it..

 

[Fatalis]

WNC operates / will be operating following warships:

1. 03 Kolkata class DDG
2. 04 Vishakhapatnam class* DDG
3. 06 Talwar clas FFG
4. 04 Tushil class* FFG
5. 03 Brahmputra class FFG

Generally, INS Vikramaditya is escorted by 2-3 P-15A and sometimes with 1-2 Talwars/Brahmputras. Here, the CBG looks very strong and promising. In future, we might see INS Vikramaditya operating solely with DDGs but no FFGs.

Now, we come to ENC which operates / will be operating following warships:
1. 03 Delhi class DDG
2. 03 Shivalik class FFG
3. 07 Nilgiri class* FFG

IMO, here INS Vikrant will be escorted by 2-3 Nilgiri class frigates. Delhi class and Shivalik class will not be operating in the CBG.

One thing I notice here is, IN has divided AESA warships equally in both ENC and WNC with 07 DDG in WNC and 07 FFG in ENC.

In future, with the addition of 4 LHDs and 3rd AC; there will be huge demand for additional escorts. Only time will tell how exactly it will look and which new escorts will be procured.

 

[flanker99]

WNC operates / will be operating following warships:

1. 03 Kolkata class DDG
2. 04 Vishakhapatnam class* DDG
3. 06 Talwar clas FFG
4. 04 Tushil class* FFG
5. 03 Brahmputra class FFG

Generally, INS Vikramaditya is escorted by 2-3 P-15A and sometimes with 1-2 Talwars/Brahmputras. Here, the CBG looks very strong and promising. In future, we might see INS Vikramaditya operating solely with DDGs but no FFGs.

Now, we come to ENC which operates / will be operating following warships:
1. 03 Delhi class DDG
2. 03 Shivalik class FFG
3. 07 Nilgiri class* FFG

IMO, here INS Vikrant will be escorted by 2-3 Nilgiri class frigates. Delhi class and Shivalik class will not be operating in the CBG.

One thing I notice here is, IN has divided AESA warships equally in both ENC and WNC with 07 DDG in WNC and 07 FFG in ENC.

In future, with the addition of 4 LHDs and 3rd AC; there will be huge demand for additional escorts. Only time will tell how exactly it will look and which new escorts will be procured.

Its kinda surprising to see IN focusing more on WNC rather than ENC

 

[Fatalis]

Its kinda surprising to see IN focusing more on WNC rather than ENC

It has always been the case. They call WNC as the Sword Arm of the fleet. ENC is more focused on SSKs, SSBNs and in future SSNs.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

WNC operates / will be operating following warships:

1. 03 Kolkata class DDG
2. 04 Vishakhapatnam class* DDG
3. 06 Talwar clas FFG
4. 04 Tushil class* FFG
5. 03 Brahmputra class FFG

Generally, INS Vikramaditya is escorted by 2-3 P-15A and sometimes with 1-2 Talwars/Brahmputras. Here, the CBG looks very strong and promising. In future, we might see INS Vikramaditya operating solely with DDGs but no FFGs.

Now, we come to ENC which operates / will be operating following warships:
1. 03 Delhi class DDG
2. 03 Shivalik class FFG
3. 07 Nilgiri class* FFG

IMO, here INS Vikrant will be escorted by 2-3 Nilgiri class frigates. Delhi class and Shivalik class will not be operating in the CBG.

One thing I notice here is, IN has divided AESA warships equally in both ENC and WNC with 07 DDG in WNC and 07 FFG in ENC.

In future, with the addition of 4 LHDs and 3rd AC; there will be huge demand for additional escorts. Only time will tell how exactly it will look and which new escorts will be procured.

I think all 4 Vishakapatnam class DDG are going to be part of Eastern Naval Command and not Western Naval Command.
The requirement is for each command to have 8 destroyers each, totalling to 16 destroyers.

 

[binayak95]

WNC operates / will be operating following warships:

1. 03 Kolkata class DDG
2. 04 Vishakhapatnam class* DDG
3. 06 Talwar clas FFG
4. 04 Tushil class* FFG
5. 03 Brahmputra class FFG

Generally, INS Vikramaditya is escorted by 2-3 P-15A and sometimes with 1-2 Talwars/Brahmputras. Here, the CBG looks very strong and promising. In future, we might see INS Vikramaditya operating solely with DDGs but no FFGs.

Now, we come to ENC which operates / will be operating following warships:
1. 03 Delhi class DDG
2. 03 Shivalik class FFG
3. 07 Nilgiri class* FFG

IMO, here INS Vikrant will be escorted by 2-3 Nilgiri class frigates. Delhi class and Shivalik class will not be operating in the CBG.

One thing I notice here is, IN has divided AESA warships equally in both ENC and WNC with 07 DDG in WNC and 07 FFG in ENC.

In future, with the addition of 4 LHDs and 3rd AC; there will be huge demand for additional escorts. Only time will tell how exactly it will look and which new escorts will be procured.

Submarines and Kamortas for ASW work as well.

 

[mohitsingh501]

What is use of naval gun like 76mm in today war, where there are missile which can destroy targets from 200 km away.
My question is particular to saryu class OPV which have not any missile defence.
Like suppose a situation, we have saryu OPV which have 76mm gun and the OPV is guarding our exclusive economic zone, can it stand against missille equipped frigate/corvette.

 

[binayak95]

What is use of naval gun like 76mm in today war, where there are missile which can destroy targets from 200 km away.
My question is particular to saryu class OPV which have not any missile defence.
Like suppose a situation, we have saryu OPV which have 76mm gun and the OPV is guarding our exclusive economic zone, can it stand against missille equipped frigate/corvette.

Its excellent for Conflicts less than full scale war - LIMOs - where your objective is to counter smaller sciffs, pirates, smugglers, etc etc

The Oto melara 76mm is also a great anti air weapon with the STRALES system, and its also a good weapon for dealing with swarming USVs, Drones, etc

 

[Fatalis]

I think all 4 Vishakapatnam class DDG are going to be part of Eastern Naval Command and not Western Naval Command.
The requirement is for each command to have 8 destroyers each, totalling to 16 destroyers.

Actually, all the P-15B will be part of WNC. They also transferred P-15 to ENC.

SNC is generally a training command. They don't require DDGs and FFGs. The quoted number is 15 for DDG and 24 for FFG. Since, we are not going to reach the number 15 for DDG anytime soon that's why we are expecting additional orders of P-17A.

 

[Fatalis]

A report from government said, IN has started using containerized missiles. Wasn't this always the case? IN has all the missiles stored inside containers only aside from Dhanush.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

A report from government said, IN has started using containerized missiles. Wasn't this always the case? IN has all the missiles stored inside containers only aside from Dhanush.

I guess they mean to say loitering Munitions

 

[Nsk]