Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Suryavanshi]

I'm fine with replacing those as long as we still retain the edge

No reason to believe it would effect our competence. As nation if we build our own our return to our roots it wouldn't be anything to look down upon.

 

[DumbPilot]

Yes, overall SH is good considering catobar emals , usn support etc, but sh can't give huge adv against plaan j31 naval

Who told you this?

 

[johnj]

Who told you this?

What ??

 

[Eagle Eye]

If rafale is selected,good. Hope engine deal with france also done.

 

[DumbPilot]

What ??

Who told you that SH don't give a big advantage against J31s?

 

[johnj]

Hellow, a little help here, from 2005 article- ''India has shown its interest in acquiring the US-developed AN/APG-79 Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar for its future multirole fighter aircraft procurement programme. The AESA radar, developed by Raytheon, is the only major subsystem yet to be cleared for sale to India as part of the offer of 126 aircraft from the US. India issued an international request for information (RfI) for the contest earlier in year 2005. Both Lockheed Martin and Boeing have expressed an interest, offering F-16 and F/A-18 aircraft respectively. Relations between the US and India have grown closer in recent times, culminating in the agreement on bilateral defense co-operation under the Defence Framework agreed in mid-2005.''
Any one knows current status of AN/APG-79 sale clearance & any special rules ??

 

[Suryavanshi]

https://www.drdo.gov.in/sites/default/files/inline-files/NstlE_Brochure_2022.pdf

These navy guys are just leagues ahead in planning aren't they

 

[johnj]

Who told you that SH don't give a big advantage against J31s?

One is stealth and other vlo, and rafale having internal tv/irst & f4 comes with new advanced sensor to counter vlo/stealth.

 

[Suryavanshi]

I think navy having its own design bureau has worked wonders for them. they are more inline with the industry than any other branch

 

[Blademaster]

Rafale-M is suppose to have mechanical issues wrt lift in IAC-2.
How is Rafale better suited for Navy? F-18 is much better suited due to tight integration with P8I and MQ9.
I would like to add we already operate with Harpoon missile and US is operating open architecture based system for easy integration of Indian subsystems.
TATS-Boeing can also manufacture these aircraft in India.
F-18 also offer more payload.
From what I hear F-18 needs less maintenance compared to Rafale-M (citation needed).

You sure you not a paid shill for Boeing? You forget that we are only getting 27 planes and that IN is planning to make TEDBF as the mainstay fighter. To GoI, commonality of spares and avoiding extra cost of building up spares is more important than the benefits offered by Boeing. And no way in hell is Boeing gonna manufacture these aircraft in India. That is complete BS. 27 planes is too small. T F-18 does not offer more payload than the Rafale.

As for the last comment, you just threw it in there like pulling it out of your ass to cast aspersions at the Rafale.

You really sound like a paid shill by Boeing.

 

[SKC]

You sure you not a paid shill for Boeing? You forget that we are only getting 27 planes and that IN is planning to make TEDBF as the mainstay fighter. To GoI, commonality of spares and avoiding extra cost of building up spares is more important than the benefits offered by Boeing. And no way in hell is Boeing gonna manufacture these aircraft in India. That is complete BS. 27 planes is too small. T F-18 does not offer more payload than the Rafale.

As for the last comment, you just threw it in there like pulling it out of your ass to cast aspersions at the Rafale.

You really sound like a paid shill by Boeing.

Commonality of parts with what thing?
Boeing literally produced most no of aircraft in the world?? Are you saying the parts from US will be more costly than the French which are more proprietary then them??

US is prodicing aircrafts for multiple nations so even a small order wont be costly from them!

And how come the issue with fitting R-M in lifts suddenly got disappeared??

 

[blackleaf]

A large reason for the choice of the Rafale is that the navy probably realized that it was too expensive to acquire and maintain a totally new plane.
If we didn't already have 36 rafale then the F-18 would make more sense.
Hopefully the MRFA can be cancelled and a combined government to government deal for Rafale with local manufacturing finalized for the navy and air force.

Ordering 36 Rafale with all the cost of India specific enhancements and then having another MRFA never made any sense. Spending so much on those 36 Rafale effectively locked India to the Rafale as the foreign fighter.

Hopefully the Rafale will be the last foreign fighter India will buy.

 

[Blademaster]

Commonality of parts with what thing?
Boeing literally produced most no of aircraft in the world?? Are you saying the parts from US will be more costly than the French which are more proprietary then them??

US is prodicing aircrafts for multiple nations so even a small order wont be costly from them!

And how come the issue with fitting R-M in lifts suddenly got disappeared??

the F-18 line is soon to end production in several years. India already paid for the Rafale support infrastructure. With the F-18 India would pay it again. By selecting the Rafale it avoids that additional cost. As for fitting into the lift if it was such a problem then there would be no need for such a contest and Boeing would have bagged that contract already. But it didn’t. That tells me alone that Boeing self manufactured this issue in order to sow doubt into Rafale M program and drum up support for the F-18 plane.

 

[Wisemarko]

Dont know why sudden love for Rafale-M!!
F/A-18 is literally the best naval aircraft out there with best of tech and capabilities.

Boeing or Lockheed cannot match Dassault offerings in one criterion. Bribes.

 

[Blademaster]

Boeing or Lockheed cannot match Dassault offerings in one criterion. Bribes.
View attachment 185570View attachment 185571

He is not allowed to claim his consultancy fee as per Indian laws. He knows that. He is just trying to derail the process.

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

Commonality of parts with what thing?
Boeing literally produced most no of aircraft in the world?? Are you saying the parts from US will be more costly than the French which are more proprietary then them??

US is prodicing aircrafts for multiple nations so even a small order wont be costly from them!

And how come the issue with fitting R-M in lifts suddenly got disappeared??

they said in the article that both the super hornet and the rafale need to be brought up in a certain angle for them to work on the lift and so the entire advantage of SH is moot.

the rafale can also be transported up if placed in specific angle and the SH also needs to do that according to the specifications of AC,so there is no issue where it is completely necessary to have a folding wing.The only thing is that having a folding wing would make things easier.

 

[Wisemarko]

He is not allowed to claim his consultancy fee as per Indian laws. He knows that. He is just trying to derail the process.

The case is in French court not Indian court. Indian laws don’t apply outside India and Germany and France allow middlemen (third party) in defense deals unlike in US.

One famous case of French corruption, this time in your favorite neighbor Pakistan:
“Also known as the Karachi Affair, the scandal involved the payment of massive commissions and kickbacks in France and Pakistan over the negotiations to acquire Agosta90B-class submarines. Commissions of 6.25% of the contract, approximately €50 million, were paid out to the lobbying firms in Pakistan and France. Some €50m were allegedly paid as "sweeteners" to various senior Pakistan Navy admirals and officers as well as the political leaders.

Another one in Malaysia Involving THALES. Dassault owns part of Thales.
“The French Financial Prosecutor's office said in an email to Reuters that Thales SA had been put under formal investigation for complicity in the active corruption of a foreign agent and that DCNI was put under formal investigation for corruption of a foreign agent.”

France's Thales under formal probe over Malaysia submarine deal, denies accusations

French defence group Thales on Wednesday confirmed a media report that the company was being formally investigated as part of a long-running corruption probe tied to the 2002 sale of submarines to Malaysia.

www.reuters.com

Why are you blindly accepting that these French corporations somehow had clean deals in India? No sir. French government actively suppresses such probes whenever possible to avoid losing lucrative business. There are several allegations, two active court cases in France, two arrested middlemen and sanctioning of a company DefSys for alleged corruption in India. There is ample presumptive evidence to investigate further.

After all, it’s up to the country to investigate these deals and stop further loss. May be corruption is the way of life for many.

 

[NutCracker]

Thats what I am saying! how come suddenly all issues with R-M got resolved!!

I guess Amreeka didn't agree to let us freely use against porkchops

Also some latest reason popped up is,
SH having 3-4T higher landing weight pushing arresting system to their limits which were built for mig29k.

Also super hornet is 20% larger in length than Rafale.
15m vs 18m.
So you can imagine the space saving.

 

[Gandaberunda]

I guess Amreeka didn't agree to let us freely use against porkchops

Also some latest reason popped up is,
SH having 3-4T higher landing weight pushing arresting system to their limits which were built for mig29k.

Also super hornet is 20% larger in length than Rafale.
15m vs 18m.
So you can imagine the space saving.

America didn’t agree to use against pork’s? The fighters are for AC and America knows we aren’t venturing into South China Sea to attack chinks. They clearly knew where and on whom they are going to be used and participated modifying SH for Stobar operations and even agreed to lease the aircraft’s which IN desired to. This all of sudden so much fetish with Rafale M seems fishy

 

[DumbPilot]

I guess Amreeka didn't agree to let us freely use against porkchops

Also some latest reason popped up is,
SH having 3-4T higher landing weight pushing arresting system to their limits which were built for mig29k.

Also super hornet is 20% larger in length than Rafale.
15m vs 18m.
So you can imagine the space saving.

Seems weird. All the Hornets were tested successfully at Goa.. I know a guy who went there himself flying the Hornets in India.

F/A-18E is the best choice we can make regarding this