Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Prashant12]

Indian Navy takes a big leap towards electric propulsion of warships

Training facilities set up prepare personnel to power next generation platforms

Electric propulsion has debuted on the US Navy Zumwalt class destroyers illustrated in this picture. Along with the US, the UK is also an early mover to electric with the Queen Elizabeth carriers, Type 45 destroyers and Type 23 frigates

The next generation of Indian Navy warships will be powered by electrical propulsion systems. Facilities to train naval engineers to operate electric drive ships have been set up ahead of construction programmes for new warships, Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief of the Southern Command Vice-Admiral Anil Chawla disclosed in an exclusive interview to SP's.

Integrated electric power generation in surface warships has been described as the "direction of future naval propulsion", and this transition would mark a major technological leap. The US and UK have taken an early lead in the adoption of electrical propulsion in the Zumwalt class and Type 45 destroyers respectively, besides the Queen Elizabeth carriers and Type 23 frigates of the Royal Navy.

The new Landing Platform Dock (LPD) amphibious warships will be the first Indian Navy ships fitted with an electrical drive. "More significantly, the Indian Navy envisages electrical propulsion for its next series of destroyers, the P18, and aircraft carriers of the future," sources elaborated.

"....(There will be ) electrical propulsion in some of our future platforms, and accordingly, facilities to train personnel in electrical propulsion have already been set-up," Vice-Admiral Chawla told SP's.

Informed sources revealed to SP's that the new Landing Platform Dock (LPD) amphibious warships will be the first Indian Navy ships fitted with an electrical drive. "More significantly, the Indian Navy envisages electrical propulsion for its next series of destroyers, the P18, and aircraft carriers of the future," sources elaborated.

This next generation of naval propulsion will enable better stealth due to significant noise reduction, lesser fuel requirement, improvement in speed, reduction in environmental risks and an increase in manoeuverability.

The shift to electric will open up new avenues for procurement of propulsion systems for the Indian Navy. Warships built in India have traditionally relied upon the Soviet legacy Zorya-Mashproekt gas turbine engines from Ukraine

SP's has learnt that a 5 MW electric propulsion system has been set up by Siemens of Germany at the onshore training establishment INS Valsura at Jamnagar in Gujarat to familiarise Indian Naval engineers with the technology and train them to operate the system.

The shift to electric will open up new avenues for procurement of propulsion systems for the Indian Navy. Warships built in India have traditionally relied upon the Soviet legacy Zorya-Mashproekt gas turbine engines from Ukraine.

http://www.spsnavalforces.com/news/...-leap-towards-electric-propulsion-of-warships

 

[Vijyes]

Indian Navy takes a big leap towards electric propulsion of warships

Training facilities set up prepare personnel to power next generation platforms

Electric propulsion has debuted on the US Navy Zumwalt class destroyers illustrated in this picture. Along with the US, the UK is also an early mover to electric with the Queen Elizabeth carriers, Type 45 destroyers and Type 23 frigates

The next generation of Indian Navy warships will be powered by electrical propulsion systems. Facilities to train naval engineers to operate electric drive ships have been set up ahead of construction programmes for new warships, Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief of the Southern Command Vice-Admiral Anil Chawla disclosed in an exclusive interview to SP's.

Integrated electric power generation in surface warships has been described as the "direction of future naval propulsion", and this transition would mark a major technological leap. The US and UK have taken an early lead in the adoption of electrical propulsion in the Zumwalt class and Type 45 destroyers respectively, besides the Queen Elizabeth carriers and Type 23 frigates of the Royal Navy.

The new Landing Platform Dock (LPD) amphibious warships will be the first Indian Navy ships fitted with an electrical drive. "More significantly, the Indian Navy envisages electrical propulsion for its next series of destroyers, the P18, and aircraft carriers of the future," sources elaborated.

"....(There will be ) electrical propulsion in some of our future platforms, and accordingly, facilities to train personnel in electrical propulsion have already been set-up," Vice-Admiral Chawla told SP's.

Informed sources revealed to SP's that the new Landing Platform Dock (LPD) amphibious warships will be the first Indian Navy ships fitted with an electrical drive. "More significantly, the Indian Navy envisages electrical propulsion for its next series of destroyers, the P18, and aircraft carriers of the future," sources elaborated.

This next generation of naval propulsion will enable better stealth due to significant noise reduction, lesser fuel requirement, improvement in speed, reduction in environmental risks and an increase in manoeuverability.

The shift to electric will open up new avenues for procurement of propulsion systems for the Indian Navy. Warships built in India have traditionally relied upon the Soviet legacy Zorya-Mashproekt gas turbine engines from Ukraine

SP's has learnt that a 5 MW electric propulsion system has been set up by Siemens of Germany at the onshore training establishment INS Valsura at Jamnagar in Gujarat to familiarise Indian Naval engineers with the technology and train them to operate the system.

The shift to electric will open up new avenues for procurement of propulsion systems for the Indian Navy. Warships built in India have traditionally relied upon the Soviet legacy Zorya-Mashproekt gas turbine engines from Ukraine.

http://www.spsnavalforces.com/news/...-leap-towards-electric-propulsion-of-warships

Electric propulsion is inefficient compared to diesel as the energy has to be first converted to electricity and then used in motor. Converting heat into electricity has conversion factor of 35%. Converting Heat to propulsion has conversion factor of 50% in big & slow engines of ships.

The only advantage of electric propulsion is that is can be stealthy as the engine need not have direct mechanical connection with propeller and hence can be placed in protected locations.

Ships are slow moving and any fast moving aerial item, even drones can easily detect ships. All countries, even pathetic ones like Pakistan have drones and hence the utility od stealth in ships become limited. The trade-off in terms of inefficiency in fuel consumption makes it undesirable. This has been used in Zumwalt destroyer and it was found to be undesirable there. So, this is more a failed concept rather than practically useful.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

Electric propulsion is inefficient compared to diesel as the energy has to be first converted to electricity and then used in motor. Converting heat into electricity has conversion factor of 35%. Converting Heat to propulsion has conversion factor of 50% in big & slow engines of ships.

The only advantage of electric propulsion is that is can be stealthy as the engine need not have direct mechanical connection with propeller and hence can be placed in protected locations.

Ships are slow moving and any fast moving aerial item, even drones can easily detect ships. All countries, even pathetic ones like Pakistan have drones and hence the utility od stealth in ships become limited. The trade-off in terms of inefficiency in fuel consumption makes it undesirable. This has been used in Zumwalt destroyer and it was found to be undesirable there. So, this is more a failed concept rather than practically useful.

Similar to the problem of Indian army which first chose less caliber gun because it was at that time famous for some other reasons in the west then our Indian army came to realise the importance of big caliber guns.
Similar thing is happening with the navy falling in love with electric propulsion.

 

[binayak95]

Ok I've a general question, Why does IN still fly the stupid british red colour cross flag with our flag in a corner ?? Why are we still stuck with this hero worship of 'Great' Britian !

Go and troll somewhere else.

The IN carries the traditions that it was born with. And it will continue to do so, because the same traditions have seen us emerge as the premiere naval power of the IOR.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Go and troll somewhere else.

The IN carries the traditions that it was born with. And it will continue to do so, because the same traditions have seen us emerge as the premiere naval power of the IOR.

No, we had this earlier in 2001.

Congis restored English flag background.

 

[Illusive]

TODAY: Indian MoD issues RfPs to shipyards for 35 ships/vessels worth ₹15,000 crore: 6 Next-Gen Missile Vessels 8 Fast Patrol Vessels 12 Air Cushion Vessels 8 Missile/Ammo Barges

What is this 6 next gen missile vessels, P17A ?

 

[rohit b3]

What is this 6 next gen missile vessels, P17A ?

No, six 1500-2500 tons Corvettes specialized for Anti-ship/land role with BrahMos and some basic airdefence.

 

[binayak95]

No, six 1500-2500 tons Corvettes specialized for Anti-ship/land role with BrahMos and some basic airdefence.

1500 tonnes is also above what IN is looking at.

Think of 22 Killer Squadron's missile boats.

Something similar. Small, very stealthy and very deadly.

An asymetrical A2/AD threat based off A&N..

Chinese tactics

 

[uoftotaku]

1500 tonnes is also above what IN is looking at.

Think of 22 Killer Squadron's missile boats.

Something similar. Small, very stealthy and very deadly.

An asymetrical A2/AD threat based off A&N..

Chinese tactics

I have a sneaky suspicion that IN has these in mind as a base design.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gepard-class_frigate

The Ruskies class it as a frigate but it comes in under 2000 Tons and spec wise is right in the goldilocks zone. Plenty of firepower on a small hull too.

If they want smaller then this is also an attractive option although operational range in the IOR would be an issue

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyan-class_corvette

 

[vampyrbladez]

Electric propulsion is inefficient compared to diesel as the energy has to be first converted to electricity and then used in motor. Converting heat into electricity has conversion factor of 35%. Converting Heat to propulsion has conversion factor of 50% in big & slow engines of ships.

The only advantage of electric propulsion is that is can be stealthy as the engine need not have direct mechanical connection with propeller and hence can be placed in protected locations.

Ships are slow moving and any fast moving aerial item, even drones can easily detect ships. All countries, even pathetic ones like Pakistan have drones and hence the utility od stealth in ships become limited. The trade-off in terms of inefficiency in fuel consumption makes it undesirable. This has been used in Zumwalt destroyer and it was found to be undesirable there. So, this is more a failed concept rather than practically useful.

Electric propulsion is for providing juice for bigger radars and railguns. Even yellow skinned chinks know this.

 

[vampyrbladez]

I have a sneaky suspicion that IN has these in mind as a base design.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gepard-class_frigate

The Ruskies class it as a frigate but it comes in under 2000 Tons and spec wise is right in the goldilocks zone. Plenty of firepower on a small hull too.

If they want smaller then this is also an attractive option although operational range in the IOR would be an issue

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyan-class_corvette

Indian Navy did show great interest in these ships in 2018.

https://flotprom.ru/2018/Индия18/

 

[Vijyes]

Electric propulsion is for providing juice for bigger radars and railguns. Even yellow skinned chinks know this.

There ia a difference between electric propulsion and integrated electricity generation. Electric propulsion means that the electricity is produced to drive propulsion whereas integrated electric generation is generation of electricity from the main engine itself. This integration is useful in reducing and extra auxillary generator and reducing space and weight. But electric propulsion is inefficient and add extra motors which add weight.

 

[Vijyes]

1500 tonnes is also above what IN is looking at.

Think of 22 Killer Squadron's missile boats.

Something similar. Small, very stealthy and very deadly.

An asymetrical A2/AD threat based off A&N..

Chinese tactics

Smaller ships will have lesser power generation and hence lower power radars. I don't know if such small ships can be used for air defence though they appear perfect for ASW and stealth offensive against enemy ships

 

[binayak95]

Operating in the IOR is not the job of such missile boats - these will be likely shallow water dedicated AShM armed corvettes for defending key chokepoints - Malacca, maybe Hormuz as well (operating from allied bases in Djibouti)

Very inexpensive and very effective.

I have a sneaky suspicion that IN has these in mind as a base design.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gepard-class_frigate

The Ruskies class it as a frigate but it comes in under 2000 Tons and spec wise is right in the goldilocks zone. Plenty of firepower on a small hull too.

If they want smaller then this is also an attractive option although operational range in the IOR would be an issue

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyan-class_corvette

 

[aarav]

Indian Navy is looking at the missile vessel which can carry 8 AShm /LACM Brahmos or Nirbhay and also has a SAM and VSHORAD systems too along with low level radar signature

 

[IndianHawk]

Operating in the IOR is not the job of such missile boats - these will be likely shallow water dedicated AShM armed corvettes for defending key chokepoints - Malacca, maybe Hormuz as well (operating from allied bases in Djibouti)

Very inexpensive and very effective.

Exactly they will be point defense ships. Aka a mig21 squadron for navy. They will rain down bramhos/ nirbhay at any warships anywhere near. Effectively defending a 1000 km radius area around them.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

 

[samsaptaka]

No, we had this earlier in 2001.
View attachment 36014
Congis restored English flag background.

Thanks for the information. As some one else said, I am not trolling !
IMO if the organisation responsible for protecting our oceans itself follows some other nation's traditions
then it sets a bad example. If CONgis changed it to british flag, why didn't anyone in IN question that move ?
And why still sticking to it now ? Why not change it back ?
Our obsession with everything from the whites is sickening....a nation without pride in its own will never stand up.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Thanks for the information. As some one else said, I am not trolling !
IMO if the organisation responsible for protecting our oceans itself follows some other nation's traditions
then it sets a bad example. If CONgis changed it to british flag, why didn't anyone in IN question that move ?
And why still sticking to it now ? Why not change it back ?
Our obsession with everything from the whites is sickening....a nation without pride in its own will never stand up.

BJP will replace it eventually and the issue will be raked up as "hyper nationalism" in media.
They just didn't pay attention till now.

Another thing, traditions didn't make us an emerging great power, we changed traditions to do so.

 

[no smoking]

Electric propulsion is inefficient compared to diesel as the energy has to be first converted to electricity and then used in motor. Converting heat into electricity has conversion factor of 35%. Converting Heat to propulsion has conversion factor of 50% in big & slow engines of ships.

Well, today, with the development of electronic equipment and weapon system development, the demand of electricity power on the warship keeps increasing. In most of the time on the sea, the gas turbines on the ship are busy producing electricity rather than propelling the boat. On the other hand, the speed becomes less important in modern sea war scenario. So, no matter how low the conversion rate is, the warship simply need more and more electricity power.

The only advantage of electric propulsion is that is can be stealthy as the engine need not have direct mechanical connection with propeller and hence can be placed in protected locations.

Firstly, the stealthy is the result of lower noise level of electronical propelling system;

Secondly, there are other advantage, by taking out transmission shaft and large gear box, it saves a lot of space for other systems, i.e. weapons. As the result it also simplify the ship structure design, which means lower structure cost and maintenance cost. More importantly, the controllability of the whole boat increases significantly.

 

[Vijyes]

Well, today, with the development of electronic equipment and weapon system development, the demand of electricity power on the warship keeps increasing. In most of the time on the sea, the gas turbines on the ship are busy producing electricity rather than propelling the boat. On the other hand, the speed becomes less important in modern sea war scenario. So, no matter how low the conversion rate is, the warship simply need more and more electricity power.

How is this relevant? If you want electricity, go foe integrated electric generation? The problem with electric propulsion is that of extreme inefficiency.

The conversion of heat to electricity rate at 35% and the further conversion of electricity to propulsion is 85-90% which will mean a total efficiency of 30%. The direct propulsion from heat cycle goes to 50% as the heat us directly used to power the propeller and there is no wastage of conversion. This saves about 40% fuel used for propulsion compared to electric propulsion.

Even in direct propulsion, the integrated electricity generation can be used to generate electricity from the main engine without auxillary engine. So, we will still get large amount of electricity.

Firstly, the stealthy is the result of lower noise level of electronical propelling system;

Secondly, there are other advantage, by taking out transmission shaft and large gear box, it saves a lot of space for other systems, i.e. weapons. As the result it also simplify the ship structure design, which means lower structure cost and maintenance cost. More importantly, the controllability of the whole boat increases significantly.

40% fuel wastage is a big issue to be ignored. It is true that the structure of the boat can be simplified and stability of the boat can rise due to ability to place the main engine anywhere. But the weapon stores and other space increase will be more than undone by the fuel inefficiency.