Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[WolfPack86]

Russia’s United Shipbuilding Corp. has identified 2 Indian shipyards as potential partners in the P75I submarine build contest — L&T & Hindustan Shipyard Ltd, says USC President Alexey Rakhmanov. USC has pitched the Amur 1650.

 

[aarav]

Mere speculation or peddling

 

[DG7867]

Tweet re. progress of INS Vikrant construction

 

[aarav]

If you want to have "next generation" then this future israel sa'ar 6 Corvette is really "next generation

Mere speculation or peddling

"

 

[no smoking]

Why are you looking at USA ships? Indian ships use CODAG configuration most of the time where diesel engine is the main engine, not gas turbofan. ..... generation of electricity can go hand in hand.

Well, diesel engine has its own strength - mainly fuel efficiency comparing to gas turbine.
But it also has its weaknesses:
1. Larger on weight and size;
2. More structure complexity;
3. Higher requirement on maintenance and install;
4. Slower starting up speed and slower accelerating rate;
5. more smoky, higher vibration and noise level;
6. Lower tolerance to various fuel types

From the comparison above, you can see gas turbine out-perform diesel engine in all aspects except fuel efficiency. So, diesel engine is a choice more suitable to developing countries' navies which are more limited by budget. But, when fiscal situation gets better, the navy will choose gas turbine as the main engine. The most latest example is Chinese PLAN: in their early years, their boats were equiped with diesel engine, then, diesel-gas turbine combination, finally pure gas-turbine.

The cost of labour is not very meaningful as it is not a real goods. We are talking of logistical costs which is very critical in warfare. More resupplying frequency means more chances of sabotage. It is alwalw best that the resupply frequency for fuel is minimised especially during war time.

Honestly, I don't have data for that. But since all the major marine powers have turned their major warships to gas turbines instead of diesel engines and new marine powers are also moving towards that direction, I believe the risk of being attacked when re-supplying during the war is manageable. The navies would like to take the advantages of tactics and mechanic over the risk.

 

[Vijyes]

Well, diesel engine has its own strength - mainly fuel efficiency comparing to gas turbine.
But it also has its weaknesses:
1. Larger on weight and size;
2. More structure complexity;
3. Higher requirement on maintenance and install;
4. Slower starting up speed and slower accelerating rate;
5. more smoky, higher vibration and noise level;
6. Lower tolerance to various fuel types

From the comparison above, you can see gas turbine out-perform diesel engine in all aspects except fuel efficiency. So, diesel engine is a choice more suitable to developing countries' navies which are more limited by budget. But, when fiscal situation gets better, the navy will choose gas turbine as the main engine. The most latest example is Chinese PLAN: in their early years, their boats were equiped with diesel engine, then, diesel-gas turbine combination, finally pure gas-turbine

Some of the points like heavier weight, higher complexity, slow speed and higher smoke & vibration is true. But the maintenance of diesel engine is significant lower than turbofan. Turbofans are maintenance heavy as the blades and moving components are under high stress. Tolerance of different fuel in diesel engines are higher than turbofan for to high stress of turbofan which reduces the choice of fuel.

It is not correct to say that turbofans are for rich countries.

Honestly, I don't have data for that. But since all the major marine powers have turned their major warships to gas turbines instead of diesel engines and new marine powers are also moving towards that direction, I believe the risk of being attacked when re-supplying during the war is manageable. The navies would like to take the advantages of tactics and mechanic over the risk.

As of now, we are not in war but only limited patrolling. We will see the real problem of logistics only in intense scenario where the real need for efficiency will arise. Till then it will be speculation.

 

[Tanmay]

The next 6 subs have to be next-gen anyway. If the intent is to use those as the stepping stone for India's own indigenous conventional subs (probably 10-15 years away) then it's better that India adopts the latest and the greatest.

I agree that the weapons suite should be standardized.....that's why I stated that Japanese should be compliant with India's customization needs (something they weren't flexible with in the Aussie case)

How much next gen are Soryu compared to U-214s or Scorpenes? All of them roughly belong to the same period and were built during 2000 era.

 

[Tanmay]

NGMV and ASW-SWC should have been combined to make a single class based on Kamorta/Saryu class. An order book of 18-20 standardised ships could have been better executed.ship

Saar 6 doesnt have Integrated mast or VLS for Anti ship missiles. Plus its based on German design. So Israeli's aren't the OEM.

 

[ezsasa]

Assuming IN numbers are correct....
=======

Sharing my chart of the #Chinese Navy vs the QUAD countries (#US Pacific Fleet + #Japanese Navy + #IndianNavy + #Australian Navy) 2019 - Small & obsolete ships are not included #US #China #PLAN #USA @US7thFleet @INDOPACOM @USPacificFleet @rdmartinson88 @AndrewSErickson

 

[ezsasa]

Navy Fanboys do read this extensive and informative piece by Indopacific_SCS_info on Kolkata Class ....

https://medium.com/indo-pacific-geomill/indian-navy-kolkata-class-destroyers-d39fad8662e0

 

[arya]

The French Navy will make Flottille 36F, based at Hyères, near Toulon, its first shipborne unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) squadron.

The move will see Flottille 36F operate the Schiebel S-100 Camcopter UAVs, which will be deployed onboard the navy’s Mistral-class landing helicopter dock ships. The squadron currently operates the AS565SA Panther helicopter.

The decision to form a dedicated UAV parent squadron reflects the French Navy’s desire to concentrate unmanned aviation expertise into a single specialised entity.


Do we have any plan for our IN as France is doing

 

[binayak95]

The French Navy will make Flottille 36F, based at Hyères, near Toulon, its first shipborne unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) squadron.

The move will see Flottille 36F operate the Schiebel S-100 Camcopter UAVs, which will be deployed onboard the navy’s Mistral-class landing helicopter dock ships. The squadron currently operates the AS565SA Panther helicopter.

The decision to form a dedicated UAV parent squadron reflects the French Navy’s desire to concentrate unmanned aviation expertise into a single specialised entity.


Do we have any plan for our IN as France is doing

We have had land based UAV squadrons for more than a decade now.

Heron IIs, Searcher IIs. Now the Sea Guardian drones will be coming in.

 

[IndianHawk]

Assuming IN numbers are correct....
=======

Sharing my chart of the #Chinese Navy vs the QUAD countries (#US Pacific Fleet + #Japanese Navy + #IndianNavy + #Australian Navy) 2019 - Small & obsolete ships are not included #US #China #PLAN #USA @US7thFleet @INDOPACOM @USPacificFleet @rdmartinson88 @AndrewSErickson

Looks like USA and Japan can blow china out of water on there own . Australia will be there to cheer only and Indian involvement seems overkill.

Chinese ssk fleet is huge though how many of them obsolete ? Any data? How many ssk are they building per annum?

What this chart shows clearly is that Chinese have no capabilities to operate in Indian Ocean .
With so few SSN they won't be able to spare a lot for Indian Ocean and ssk will need constant surfacing and fueling making them vulnerable.
Chinese also can't provide air cover to there vessels far from shoreline .

There carriers are outnumbered by US Pacific command and now Japan is planning to convert helicopter carriers to f35 carriers putting china at further disadvantage. It seems china will need 8-10 aircraft carriers just to match what USA and Japan will put up against it in the Pacific.

What will they deploy in Indian Ocean then?

Also there carrier fighter is a failure basically there carrier are just floating bricks unless they can make j15/su33 work . Even then it will be outnumbered and outgunned by USA Japan f35 forces.



Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

 

[IndianHawk]

Looks like USA and Japan can blow china out of water on there own . Australia will be there to cheer only and Indian involvement seems overkill.

Chinese ssk fleet is huge though how many of them obsolete ? Any data? How many ssk are they building per annum?

What this chart shows clearly is that Chinese have no capabilities to operate in Indian Ocean .
With so few SSN they won't be able to spare a lot for Indian Ocean and ssk will need constant surfacing and fueling making them vulnerable.
Chinese also can't provide air cover to there vessels far from shoreline .

There carriers are outnumbered by US Pacific command and now Japan is planning to convert helicopter carriers to f35 carriers putting china at further disadvantage. It seems china will need 8-10 aircraft carriers just to match what USA and Japan will put up against it in the Pacific.

What will they deploy in Indian Ocean then?

Also there carrier fighter is a failure basically there carrier are just floating bricks unless they can make j15/su33 work . Even then it will be outnumbered and outgunned by USA Japan f35 forces.



Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

Lesson is that Chinese navy won't be a dominant force in Indian Ocean for atleast 2-3 decades and hence India can breath on naval front and must focus funds on immediate strengthening of airpower even if it comes at cost of naval power.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

 

[Longewala]

Looks like USA and Japan can blow china out of water on there own . Australia will be there to cheer only and Indian involvement seems overkill.

Chinese ssk fleet is huge though how many of them obsolete ? Any data? How many ssk are they building per annum?

What this chart shows clearly is that Chinese have no capabilities to operate in Indian Ocean .
With so few SSN they won't be able to spare a lot for Indian Ocean and ssk will need constant surfacing and fueling making them vulnerable.
Chinese also can't provide air cover to there vessels far from shoreline .

There carriers are outnumbered by US Pacific command and now Japan is planning to convert helicopter carriers to f35 carriers putting china at further disadvantage. It seems china will need 8-10 aircraft carriers just to match what USA and Japan will put up against it in the Pacific.

What will they deploy in Indian Ocean then?

Also there carrier fighter is a failure basically there carrier are just floating bricks unless they can make j15/su33 work . Even then it will be outnumbered and outgunned by USA Japan f35 forces.



Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

The Chinese are not planning for today - they are planning for 2035 or 2040 when they will be far stronger.

However their ambition and arrogance is both their strength and weakness.

Because that's what drive them to make India, otherwise their biggest and unconditional friend, into an enemy.

And while the Indian Navy is overkill today for that alliance, but in 2040 with three carriers, 20 odd nuclear or advanced p175/75i subs and dozens of warships (and the strategically superior position wrt geography) will be what tips the scales in favour of the US alliance.

 

[ezsasa]

The Chinese are not planning for today - they are planning for 2035 or 2040 when they will be far stronger.

However their ambition and arrogance is both their strength and weakness.

Because that's what drive them to make India, otherwise their biggest and unconditional friend, into an enemy.

And while the Indian Navy is overkill today for that alliance, but in 2040 with three carriers, 20 odd nuclear or advanced p175/75i subs and dozens of warships (and the strategically superior position wrt geography) will be what tips the scales in favour of the US alliance.

Yup indian peninsula is a mega shakargarh bulge on it's own for the IOR....

 

[captscooby81]

Defence Ministry issues Rs 2000 crore tender for critical heavyweight torpedoes for submarines
"The tender for acquiring around 100 heavyweight torpedoes for the submarines for the Indian Navy was issued 10 days ago by the Defence Ministry," Defence Ministry sources told ANI.


NEW DELHI: Seeking to boost the Indian Navy's firepower, the Defence Ministry has issued a tender worth over Rs 2000 crore for buying around 100 heavyweight torpedoes which would be equipped on the force's six Scorpene-class submarines being built at the Mumbai-based Mazagon dockyards.

"The tender for acquiring around 100 heavyweight torpedoes for the submarines for the Indian Navy was issued 10 days ago by the Defence Ministry," Defence Ministry sources told ANI.

The French-origin Scorpene submarines are being built in India at the Mazagon Dockyards Limited (MDL) and have now been named the Kalvari class. The first boat of the class called INS Kalvari has already been inducted into the Navy and is carrying out operational duties.

As per the details of the project, the immediate requirement of the Navy for heavyweight torpedoes would be met by the acquisition to be made through the foreign vendors while the long-term bulk requirement would be fulfilled through the 'Made in India' route.

The DRDO is also looking forward to using heavyweight torpedo as the next version of its light torpedoes for submarines and surface ships.

Global manufacturers from France, Sweden, Russia and Germany have been issued tenders for the heavyweight torpedoes for the Navy.

Italian firm Wass' Blackshark torpedoes were earlier selected for the project but the programme had to be cancelled due to the involvement of scam-tainted Finmeccanica group in the VVIP chopper scam.

The nuclear fleet of Arihant class boats also requires torpedoes. INS Arihant is the first indigenously-built and developed nuclear submarine of the Indian Navy which has successfully carried out a deterrence patrol in the Indian Ocean region.

The remaining five boats of the Kalvari class are expected to join the Indian Navy in next four to five years.

The next boat in line is the INS Khanderi which is likely to be inducted in the force in the next few months.

Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/70229609.cms?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=ETTWMain&utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

 

[Chinmoy]

Defence Ministry issues Rs 2000 crore tender for critical heavyweight torpedoes for submarines
"The tender for acquiring around 100 heavyweight torpedoes for the submarines for the Indian Navy was issued 10 days ago by the Defence Ministry," Defence Ministry sources told ANI.


NEW DELHI: Seeking to boost the Indian Navy's firepower, the Defence Ministry has issued a tender worth over Rs 2000 crore for buying around 100 heavyweight torpedoes which would be equipped on the force's six Scorpene-class submarines being built at the Mumbai-based Mazagon dockyards.

"The tender for acquiring around 100 heavyweight torpedoes for the submarines for the Indian Navy was issued 10 days ago by the Defence Ministry," Defence Ministry sources told ANI.

The French-origin Scorpene submarines are being built in India at the Mazagon Dockyards Limited (MDL) and have now been named the Kalvari class. The first boat of the class called INS Kalvari has already been inducted into the Navy and is carrying out operational duties.

As per the details of the project, the immediate requirement of the Navy for heavyweight torpedoes would be met by the acquisition to be made through the foreign vendors while the long-term bulk requirement would be fulfilled through the 'Made in India' route.

The DRDO is also looking forward to using heavyweight torpedo as the next version of its light torpedoes for submarines and surface ships.

Global manufacturers from France, Sweden, Russia and Germany have been issued tenders for the heavyweight torpedoes for the Navy.

Italian firm Wass' Blackshark torpedoes were earlier selected for the project but the programme had to be cancelled due to the involvement of scam-tainted Finmeccanica group in the VVIP chopper scam.

The nuclear fleet of Arihant class boats also requires torpedoes. INS Arihant is the first indigenously-built and developed nuclear submarine of the Indian Navy which has successfully carried out a deterrence patrol in the Indian Ocean region.

The remaining five boats of the Kalvari class are expected to join the Indian Navy in next four to five years.

The next boat in line is the INS Khanderi which is likely to be inducted in the force in the next few months.

Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/70229609.cms?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=ETTWMain&utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

Wish we had Varunastra ready by now for this.

 

[Vijyes]

Wish we had Varunastra ready by now for this.

We have Varunastra ready. But it is ship launched. MoD has already placed orders to BDL to manufacture it. Varunastra is being modified to be used in submarines. The project was announced in 2017. Once completed, the name of the Torpedo can be changed.

 

[Chinmoy]

We have Varunastra ready. But it is ship launched. MoD has already placed orders to BDL to manufacture it. Varunastra is being modified to be used in submarines. The project was announced in 2017. Once completed, the name of the Torpedo can be changed.

That is what I am saying. Varunastra could not be fired from Subs and so as of now can't participate in the tender.