Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Bhadra]

@Steven Rogers

Look, I am not used to crookery of that sort...
I have quoted two news items and Naval RFI. Why should I show you something which I never claimed. I said HAL has not responded based on quoted news item. You say they are offering ALH, the onus of proving lies on you or you are just bluffing your way through.

Naval RFI says "RFI for Neval Light Utility Helicopter (NUH)" in so many specific words. HAL has indeed made (two) LUH but not offered it. It is so simple but having been caught red handed you are mudding the issue deliberately.
I have no objection to HAL offering ALH , do that. I am saying there is no reference to that. Let us see the basis of your claim.

In your three successive post you used these words :

.........Son don't get confuse......... post #4981...
............sums up you're rational intelligence..... post# 4982
..........which might be the reason for your deprivation. ..... post #4983

What kind of language is that ?? Am I your deranged son??

Do not fill the thread for nothing .

 

[Enquirer]

@Steven Rogers

Your "rogering " type approach will not do. It is ungentlemanly.

* For last 100 posts we are discussing HAL NUH which HAL has built up as a comparative class.
* Now you suddenly say it is ALH. Show me some reference.
* RFI clearly say Naval Light Utility Helicopter (NUH) not ALH.
* ALH is nowhere near Naval variant with capability to land on deck and auto foldable rotors. The reference you gave nowhere says that it is capable of being stores in ship and has auto folding rotors - a requirement of IN.
* HAL NUH was introduced in the discussion with "Rogering Techniques" by one @Sashvat who then kept spamming till further 20 posts.
* Of course, like a tendency exist in the forum, then he was joined by gang of brothers.
* Time and again I said HAL has not responded to RFI but Kamov (joint Venture with HAL) have responded but no they kept insisting HAL NUH is the best in the world. There is one @Enquirer who thinks he has obtained IP right for abusing me on his imaginary hurts and his bottom pains.

Bhadra! Have you even read my posts on Naval ALH? What’s your intent on tagging me in your asinine post other than some masochistic tendency to provoke me and get insulted?

 

[Bhadra]

The requirement of NUH had been put forward by IN from 2009 onwards when HAL jumped in and claimed they will make it.
This is 2019 and at RFI stage if HAL still says they will make it ... take Nirmala Sitaraman and show her a polished knocked mockup to claim that was NUH, then IN should go and jump into Indian ocean and hand over Maritime Defense of India to HAL.

 

[Vijyes]

We are discussing NUH (Naval Utility Helicopters) ... MoD has asked an RFI on NUH ...

https://www.indiannavy.nic.in/sites...nt/22_AUG_NUH_RFI_OEM_UPLOADED_ON_WEBSITE.pdf

they have already gone through higher class Multirole helicopters and selected MH 60 Romeo Seahawk helicopters . 24 have been ordered.

//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/68698990.cms?from=mdr&utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

ALH is also a utility helicopter. The requirements is not NLUH but NUH which means the LUH is not the only viable HAL manufactured helicopter. In fact, LUH is only used to reduce costs and not a preferred helicopter for multirole work.

The natural choice for utility helicopter when cost of operations (mainly fuel cost) ia not considered, is ALH, not LUH.

Yes But :

Kamov has two engines as compared to single engine HAL NUH.
There is difference in operating time - Navy wants 2 hours minimum with 20 % fuel reserve. HAL NUH is not arounf that.
HAL NUH does not meet operational requirements of subsurface warfare (No Torpedos and depth Charges). many other things I will not keep repeating..

HAL NLUH is not yet made and is unlikely to be made. NUH will be ALH modified for naval role. LUH is only for cheap sorties and has no other utility and is not an important chopper either technologically or operationally.

ALH can fly as well if not better than competition of similar weight class. Moreover, HAL has already displayed the folding tail and blade design in AeroIndia. So, the manufacturing time will be much less than that needed for any foreign NUH ordered. Only justification I see is the 'intent'to develop private industry and hence need to have such make in India projects forcibly implemented only for it.

Yes ka226T is twin engined as it has counter rotation blades which necessitate 2 engine. But, the weight class of Ka226T is of LUH. But both these will be too small yo be for NUH.

 

[Bhadra]

ALH is also a utility helicopter. The requirements is not NLUH but NUH which means the LUH is not the only viable HAL manufactured helicopter. In fact, LUH is only used to reduce costs and not a preferred helicopter for multirole work.

The natural choice for utility helicopter when cost of operations (mainly fuel cost) ia not considered, is ALH, not LUH.


HAL NLUH is not yet made and is unlikely to be made. NUH will be ALH modified for naval role. LUH is only for cheap sorties and has no other utility and is not an important chopper either technologically or operationally.

ALH can fly as well if not better than competition of similar weight class. Moreover, HAL has already displayed the folding tail and blade design in AeroIndia. So, the manufacturing time will be much less than that needed for any foreign NUH ordered. Only justification I see is the 'intent'to develop private industry and hence need to have such make in India projects forcibly implemented only for it.

Yes ka226T is twin engined as it has counter rotation blades which necessitate 2 engine. But, the weight class of Ka226T is of LUH. But both these will be too small yo be for NUH.

Is the discussion worth it ?
If HAL has not reponded to RFI then that is it. ALH or LUH may be anything worth its weight in diamonds ?
Kamov responding means HAL responding.... that is it.
Am I to be blamed for that?
What are you all trying to prove ? If HAL has ALH so be it. Indian Navy is not taking it. Period.
Dah...

 

[Bhadra]

I really do not understand the problem...
ALH has been taken by IA and IAF in numbers as it meets their requirement..
IN has also taken some but only for onshore duties.
IF NUH or ALH does not meet IN requirements then it does not... They are the users and not slave consumers.

Why are you sloganeering ???

 

[Vijyes]

I really do not understand the problem...
ALH has been taken by IA and IAF in numbers as it meets their requirement..
IN has also taken some but only for onshore duties.
IF NUH or ALH does not meet IN requirements then it does not... They are the users and not slave consumers.

Why are you sloganeering ???

ALH does meet specifications. But the intention is to develop private industry and hence need for foreign collaboration as starting point.

 

[Suryavanshi]

foreign collaboration as starting point.

We have been making helicopter on our own for decades now, cheetah and Dhurv why can't we just make helicopters on our own.
I don't think we lack in anything more than engine sphere.

 

[Steven Rogers]

@Steven Rogers

Look, I am not used to crookery of that sort...
I have quoted two news items and Naval RFI. Why should I show you something which I never claimed. I said HAL has not responded based on quoted news item. You say they are offering ALH, the onus of proving lies on you or you are just bluffing your way through.

Naval RFI says "RFI for Neval Light Utility Helicopter (NUH)" in so many specific words. HAL has indeed made (two) LUH but not offered it. It is so simple but having been caught red handed you are mudding the issue deliberately.
I have no objection to HAL offering ALH , do that. I am saying there is no reference to that. Let us see the basis of your claim.

In your three successive post you used these words :

.........Son don't get confuse......... post #4981...
............sums up you're rational intelligence..... post# 4982
..........which might be the reason for your deprivation. ..... post #4983

What kind of language is that ?? Am I your deranged son??

Do not fill the thread for nothing .

Do you ever read naval rfi, if dont let me help you read a page...

Base design is required of a proven helicopter, now tell us which helicopter which are contenders started up as a pro naval force...... Ignorance will not help, hal replied with the two bids, one with hal naval alh and other with russian helicopter...https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepri...2-bids-for-mega-navy-chopper-deal/229335/amp/
As far as indian navy is concerned, they have rfi for "Naval Utility Helicopter" not naval light utility helicopter...

You type people are the reason why other countries consider india backward....
Luh is designed to replace chetak and cheetah operated by indian armed forces and mainly army, i dont think navy operates at siachin with their cheetal helos but army uses chetak and cheetah there.....
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fi...l-to-replace-cheetah-and-chetak/1411968/lite/
You cant make objections, your objections dont matter to anyone...
That kind of language is used for trolling, those arent abusive ,and used for the people who are ignorant of the facts and continue their blabber and spamming the whole thread. And should i quote your statements.

 

[Bhadra]

India intends to build 111 NUH under Make in India - SP Model.
The SP model, under which the NUH is being procured, envisages the indigenous manufacture of major defence platforms by Indian firms (SPs), in collaboration with a foreign original equipment manufacturer (OEM) for technologies and production expertise.

At the Expression of Intent stage in Apr 19, HAL submitted two responses: one proposal to participate as a DPSU; and, alongside that, a second proposal from the HAL-led joint venture, Indo-Russian Helicopters Ltd (IRHL), which was set up to manufacture the Kamov 226T helicopter for the air force in India.

That was not keeping with DPP and strongly objected to by the all private participants. The EoI clearly asked only private sector companies to respond but HAL not being a private company still responded with two proposals.

At this stage now, when the RFI has been responded to Kamov / HAL proposal may still fall through since it is not in collaboration with a private company. Private companies have all the rights to demand "level playing field"....

That seems to the reason HAL is not allowed to offer ALH.

Case closed.......

 

[Steven Rogers]

I really do not understand the problem...
ALH has been taken by IA and IAF in numbers as it meets their requirement..
IN has also taken some but only for onshore duties.
IF NUH or ALH does not meet IN requirements then it does not... They are the users and not slave consumers.

Why are you sloganeering ???

Should i keep posting these images back to back so that one's ignorance is treated well......

 

[Bhadra]

Do you ever read naval rfi, if dont let me help you read a page... View attachment 35683
Base design is required of a proven helicopter, now tell us which helicopter which are contenders started up as a pro naval force...... Ignorance will not help, hal replied with the two bids, one with hal naval alh and other with russian helicopter...https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepri...2-bids-for-mega-navy-chopper-deal/229335/amp/
As far as indian navy is concerned, they have rfi for "Naval Utility Helicopter" not naval light utility helicopter... View attachment 35684
You type people are the reason why other countries consider india backward....
Luh is designed to replace chetak and cheetah operated by indian armed forces and mainly army, i dont think navy operates at siachin with their cheetal helos but army uses chetak and cheetah there.....
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fi...l-to-replace-cheetah-and-chetak/1411968/lite/
You cant make objections, your objections dont matter to anyone...
That kind of language is used for trolling, those arent abusive ,and used for the people who are ignorant of the facts and continue their blabber and spamming the whole thread. And should i quote your statements.

I am aware that RFI was drafted keeping in view ALH. HAL has not responded ( not allowed to respond) to RFI so case closed. I do not need your certification.

 

[Enquirer]

As I was saying....the biggest obstacle for ALH Dhruv to be accepted as NUH is its inability to fold its rotor blades!!
It's pathetic that HAL, despite more than a decade of trying, only came up with 2 folding blades!

 

[Bhadra]

Do you ever read naval rfi, if dont let me help you read a page... View attachment 35683
Base design is required of a proven helicopter, now tell us which helicopter which are contenders started up as a pro naval force...... Ignorance will not help, hal replied with the two bids, one with hal naval alh and other with russian helicopter...https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepri...2-bids-for-mega-navy-chopper-deal/229335/amp/
As far as indian navy is concerned, they have rfi for "Naval Utility Helicopter" not naval light utility helicopter... View attachment 35684
You type people are the reason why other countries consider india backward....
Luh is designed to replace chetak and cheetah operated by indian armed forces and mainly army, i dont think navy operates at siachin with their cheetal helos but army uses chetak and cheetah there.....
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fi...l-to-replace-cheetah-and-chetak/1411968/lite/
You cant make objections, your objections dont matter to anyone...
That kind of language is used for trolling, those arent abusive ,and used for the people who are ignorant of the facts and continue their blabber and spamming the whole thread. And should i quote your statements.

Then you do not know any thing about Naval operations and their land forces / Special Forces requirements.

 

[Steven Rogers]

India intends to build 111 NUH under Make in India - SP Model.
The SP model, under which the NUH is being procured, envisages the indigenous manufacture of major defence platforms by Indian firms (SPs), in collaboration with a foreign original equipment manufacturer (OEM) for technologies and production expertise.

At the Expression of Intent stage in Apr 19, HAL submitted two responses: one proposal to participate as a DPSU; and, alongside that, a second proposal from the HAL-led joint venture, Indo-Russian Helicopters Ltd (IRHL), which was set up to manufacture the Kamov 226T helicopter for the air force in India.

That was not keeping with DPP and strongly objected to by the all private participants. The EoI clearly asked only private sector companies to respond but HAL not being a private company still responded with two proposals.

At this stage now, when the RFI has been responded to Kamov / HAL proposal may still fall through since it is not in collaboration with a private company. Private companies have all the rights to demand "level playing field"....

That seems to the reason HAL is not allowed to offer ALH.

Case closed.......

Rfi is issued to the oems, be it private or gov, and if an indigenous option like HAL is available which satisfy the rfi then the defence ministry would need to go for the Buy IDDM (indigenously designed, developed and manufactures) classification, which is accorded highest priority under the Defence Procurement Procedure, under dpp-2016.... thats why i called stop been an ignorant spam and read whats actually written in those links. Private industry is more concerned of naval alh, which recently demonstrated its boom and tail folding capability. If naval alh satisfy basic requirement, it will not require to go for competitive bidding and HAL would wont the contract under iddm, just like mod ordered more akash over other srsam .

 

[Steven Rogers]

Then you do not know any thing about Naval operations and their land forces / Special Forces requirements.

Thats why i stated you to read the rfi before stating anything...

 

[Bhadra]

How many lies will you all bulldoze:

"......The NUH, which must be optimised for ship usage with facilities like foldable rotors is being procured to replace the navy’s vintage French-origin Chetak helicopters. Flying from warships, the NUH will carry out tasks like search and rescue, casualty evacuation, ferrying passengers from ships and low intensity maritime operations (LIMO) such as dropping torpedoes......... "

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/search?q=NUH

 

[Steven Rogers]

As I was saying....the biggest obstacle for ALH Dhruv to be accepted as NUH is its inability to fold its rotor blades!!
It's pathetic that HAL, despite more than a decade of trying, only came up with 2 folding blades!

3re not 2, however hal officials at aero india said that all blades will be foldable in future.....

 

[Bhadra]

Should i keep posting these images back to back so that one's ignorance is treated well......
View attachment 35685 View attachment 35686 View attachment 35687 View attachment 35688 View attachment 35689 View attachment 35690

Will these helicopters stay on the ships or only land there ??

 

[Steven Rogers]

How many lies will you all bulldoze:

"......The NUH, which must be optimised for ship usage with facilities like foldable rotors is being procured to replace the navy’s vintage French-origin Chetak helicopters. Flying from warships, the NUH will carry out tasks like search and rescue, casualty evacuation, ferrying passengers from ships and low intensity maritime operations (LIMO) such as dropping torpedoes......... "

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/search?q=NUH

What an ignorant person, he only sees that people here are pushing Army type alh which performs operations at 4.5km altitude in siachin, he also thinks that naval alh will not have any naval thing other than the name...... Now people need to ignore him as its useless to waste time....