Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

Bhadra

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Dhruv is specialized for high altitude operations... Would be a lot of work to make work smoothly at sea ...
about 187 numbers of Dhruva have been ordered by IA and IAF as it seems to meet their requirements.

As per IN, it does not meat their requirement ... so that should end there or HAL should make a platform that meets their requirements.
ICG also has IN elements, they have accepted Dhruva for Coast guard.

But some guys are so pathetically anti +uniform that they should seriously think of leaving their jobs. How can this social justice force think of making anything good for forces with those ideas ingrained in their minds.

Has any one of these freeloaders ever flown in those noisy beasts with doors falling off in flight.... I have come across many commanders and men who just do not enter Dhruv.... they would prefer walking instead.

HAL has not responded to RFI beacuse pricewise they can never compete with foreign company because Dhruva is 70 % imported.
 

Enquirer

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Dhruv is specialized for high altitude operations... Would be a lot of work to make work smoothly at sea ...
What does that even mean? It's like saying a weighlifter can lift 200kgs....but needs to train hard to lift 20kgs!!

Of course, Dhruv can work well at sea level! It's the mechanics of storage inside the ships that's problematic with Dhruv!
And then there's also the problem of capability mismatch....Dhruv's payload capacity doesn't sit in the sweet spot as required by the Navy!
 

Enquirer

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That Defense Professional tag has given me very bad time in the forum ...
Any one who so desires comes and starts his "Gyan Series" of abuses on this so called Defence Professional. I have started using language which was unthinkable for me.

But I will not give up .....
He who shuts the door on Gyan remains an Agyani for life!!!
 

Bhadra

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What does that even mean? It's like saying a weighlifter can lift 200kgs....but needs to train hard to lift 20kgs!!

Of course, Dhruv can work well at sea level! It's the mechanics of storage inside the ships that's problematic with Dhruv!
And then there's also the problem of capability mismatch....Dhruv's payload capacity doesn't sit in the sweet spot as required by the Navy!
Give that arument to DAC.

There are thousands of Navies in the world who would be glad to lap up your marvel.Or shub that mal where it should go.

kutarka and kutark galore.

Leave aside the IN for God sake. There is some integrity left with them.
 

Bhadra

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He who shuts the door on Gyan remains an Agyani for life!!!
You too are suffering from some itch of Gyan !

सीख वाको दीजिये जाको सीख सुहाय | सीख न दीजे वानरा जो घर बया को जाय ||
Leave it that.
 

Shashank Nayak

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What does that even mean? It's like saying a weighlifter can lift 200kgs....but needs to train hard to lift 20kgs!!

Of course, Dhruv can work well at sea level! It's the mechanics of storage inside the ships that's problematic with Dhruv!
And then there's also the problem of capability mismatch....Dhruv's payload capacity doesn't sit in the sweet spot as required by the Navy!
What does that even mean? It's like saying a weighlifter can lift 200kgs....but needs to train hard to lift 20kgs!!

Of course, Dhruv can work well at sea level! It's the mechanics of storage inside the ships that's problematic with Dhruv!
And then there's also the problem of capability mismatch....Dhruv's payload capacity doesn't sit in the sweet spot as required by the Navy!
I said working smoothly at sea.. not sea level... It is not just about air density and lift... You can't take a utility helicopter that works well at high altitudes and make it Naval ALH. At sea, the helicopter has contend with not just the deck when landing, but also the movement of the ship itself. The navy had experienced stability issues with it. The naval helicopter also has to demonstrate sea control, ASW capabilities and so on.. Has ALH or LUH demonstrated all this...
 

Steven Rogers

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I said working smoothly at sea.. not sea level... It is not just about air density and lift... You can't take a utility helicopter that works well at high altitudes and make it Naval ALH. At sea, the helicopter has contend with not just the deck when landing, but also the movement of the ship itself. The navy had experienced stability issues with it. The naval helicopter also has to demonstrate sea control, ASW capabilities and so on.. Has ALH or LUH demonstrated all this...
Dhruv versatility is maintained in every environment, it not only operates from high altitude, but also in various places which have different climate conditions.... Dhruv primary reason for non acceptance in the navy is the absence of folded blade and boom.....the secondary reasons are the stringent requirements ehichwhich includes anti-submarine and anti-surface warfare, SAR, troop carriage, weapons that included torpedoes, Exocet-class missiles and depth charges. Sensors included dipping sonar, surveillance radar, sonobuoys and MAD. The Navy also wanted capability to change roles in quick-time (capability to remove ASR equipment in three hours) however currently dhruv performs only SAR, TROOP CARRIAGE....
 

Enquirer

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At sea, the helicopter has contend with not just the deck when landing, but also the movement of the ship itself.
Naval ALH already has tricycle landing gear - the standard for all naval helos! There's no issue with landing on a ship deck!
The navy had experienced stability issues with it. The naval helicopter also has to demonstrate sea control, ..
There's no 'stability' issues! Navy did complain about excessive vibrations; the remedy was to affix a 'noise cancellation' system. This was proven nearly a decade ago. The issue is solved!
ASW capabilities and so on...Has ALH or LUH demonstrated all this...
Traditional ASW essentially requires a maritime radar, torpedoes & depth charges! Naval ALH has been fitted with these and proven its capability. However one can easily see that the payload capacity of ALH doesn't accommodate heavy torpedoes AND depth charges AND be operational for extended periods of time!

In my view, among all the issues reported by Navy the 'storage' has had the least timely and least complete solution. (Payload is something that cannot be changed at all)

LUH will probably address the storage issues adequately (with all folding rotor blades)! ALH still seems to still have the problem with only TWO blades capable of folding!
 

Bhadra

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RFI For NUH says :

Capability. Which is the helicopter on offer for NUH? Will it be twin-engine, having wheeled landing gear, blade fold capability and qualified for military operations? Will it be capable of operating from ships and shore by day as well as by night and in Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) conditions? Will it be able to carry out all the roles mentioned at subsequent paragraphs with Maximum All Up Weight up to 5T?

Dhruv does not fulfill the first requirement itself then what is the use of heart burning ?
It is a 3 ton class platform but Navy require 5 ton class helicopter.
Then there are other essential conditions where there are ifs and butts every where.
Why scuttle "Modernisation" in the name of "indigenisation" particularly when there is nothing indigenous in it there ?
If it can not perform the required tasks, accepting it even "Free of Cost" will be professional dishonesty for IN.

Fact - Dhruv was never designed and made to be a NUH. It is a DPSU tendency of "Chepo" some rag tag jugadu mal / platform for a task for which the platform was originally never intended. It does not meet the requirement of flying for two hours with 20% reserve fuel then why should IN even look at it. IN needs NUH and not Naval Utility Toy.

Moreover, it is proposal under "Make in India" which stipulates at least 30 % indigenous parts - higher than those of Dhruv. Then why this rona dona ?
 
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Bhadra

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Dhruv versatility is maintained in every environment, it not only operates from high altitude, but also in various places which have different climate conditions.... Dhruv primary reason for non acceptance in the navy is the absence of folded blade and boom.....the secondary reasons are the stringent requirements ehichwhich includes anti-submarine and anti-surface warfare, SAR, troop carriage, weapons that included torpedoes, Exocet-class missiles and depth charges. Sensors included dipping sonar, surveillance radar, sonobuoys and MAD. The Navy also wanted capability to change roles in quick-time (capability to remove ASR equipment in three hours) however currently dhruv performs only SAR, TROOP CARRIAGE....
Does it meet the specified requirements of IN ?
It is not a Twin Engine machine
It can not carry required 5 tons
It has no subsurface weapon system and required capabilities ...
Rotor blade folding parameters does not allow it to stored on ship properly.
It can not fly for required time. HAL says empty the helicopter and fixed many internal tanks and then fly it for two hours !!....... for the sake of flying ......:crying::crying:

I have observed in almost all discussions which invariably starts with gali-galoch, the DRDO / DPSU enthusiasts take the subject to the precipice where all of the aspects of their mal is stripped down to the state of being stark naked and then they start crying like children...

Kimkartabyavimuda ....
 

WolfPack86

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The entire evolution done by Indian crew, marks the culmination of the training phase. This newly acquired skill by #IndianNavy & live mating Ex is a historic achievement towards DSRV integration into the IN & would pave way for IN to emerge as a Submarine Rescue Provider in IOR.
 

Bhadra

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Dhruv is not even under consideration as HAL has not responded to the bid. Still the Enthusists have filled twenty pages on it.

Let us move on Kamov - Ka 226T.

Specifications (Ka-226T)
  • Crew: 1-2.
  • Passengers: 7.
  • Cargo: 1,050 kg internally, or 1,100 kg on an external sling.
  • Length: 8.1 m (25 ft 7 in)
  • Main rotor diameter: 2× 13 m (42 ft 8 in)
  • Height: 4.15 m (13 ft 7 in)
  • Gross weight: 3800 kg (8379 lb)
  • Powerplant: 2 × Turbomeca Arrius 2G1, 435 kW (580 hp) each.


 
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Bhadra

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Indo-Russian Joint Venture For Kamov Choppers Registered In India: Russian Official
In October last year, India and Russia finalised a broad agreement for the Joint Venture between Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) and two Russian defence majors.
All India | Press Trust of India | Updated: July 18, 2017 14:21 IST

MOSCOW: An Indo-Russian joint venture to produce the Kamov military helicopters under a USD 1 billion deal has been registered in India and efforts are on to co-produce them, a senior official of the Russian defence major Rostec has said.

The joint venture was registered in May, said Victor Nikolayevich Kladov, the head of the Department of International Cooperation and Regional Policy, Rostec State Corp, Russia's umbrella organisation for 700 hi-tech civilian and military firms which was established in 2007.

In October last year, India and Russia finalised a broad agreement for the Joint Venture between Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) and two Russian defence majors.

India is procuring Kamov choppers to replace its ageing Cheetah and Chetak helicopters.

Sixty Kamov-226T helicopters will be supplied to India in fly-away condition, while 140 will be manufactured in India under a USD 1 billion deal inked in 2015.

"We are very happy to know that the joint venture has finally been registered by the Indian Government in May,"

Kladov told reporters here ahead of the MAKS-2017 airshow that began today in the Russian town of Zhukovsky near Moscow. The airshow will continue till July 23.

"Everything will be in the hands of the joint venture. Now initiative all goes to this joint venture," Kladov said. "It is registered in India because judicially it is in India. It was approved by the Russian Government in April and then after having been approved by the Russian government, it was registered in India," the top Rostec official said.

The agreement for the Kamov choppers was signed during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Russia in December, 2015. In October last year, Russian Helicopters, Rosoboronexport and India's HAL Corp had almost completed the formalities for the joint venture to localise the production of Ka-226Ts and deliver them to the Indian market.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/ind...-registered-in-india-russian-official-1726169
 

Bhadra

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Indian Navy should also try Kamov 226T choppers: Russian firm
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/61893225.cms?from=mdr&utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
Jul 15, 2018, 01.51 PM IST

With the government clearing the mega-project to acquire 111 helicopters for the Indian Navy, a leading Russian manufacturer wants the Navy to try its Kamov 226T helicopter, saying the chopper aptly meets the force's needs.

"We think of the Kamov Ka-226T JV with India as a synergistic project with further possibilities. For instance, the Indian Navy has recently announced a tender for delivery of 100 (111) helicopters with a mass of up to 5 tonnes. We think it might be good move for Indian ministry for defence to save their money and purchase Kamov 226T with its latest modifications, because we already have solutions of folding blades in the place.

"And of course following the framework of Make in India project we will be actively involved in localising the assembly and production of this helicopter on Indian soil," CEO of Russian Helicopters Andrey Boginisky told a visiting foreign media delegation last night.

Under the Indo-Russia joint venture to produce 200 Kamov 226T helicopters for the Indian Army and the Indian Air Force, 60 choppers will be supplied to India in fly-away condition, while the remaining 140 will be manufactured in India under a USD 1 billion deal inked in 2015.

In October last year, India and Russia finalised a broad agreement for the joint venture between Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) and two Russian defence majors.

India is procuring Kamov choppers to replace its ageing fleet of Cheetah and Chetak helicopters.


The agreement for the Kamov choppers was signed during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Russia in December, 2015.

Last year, Russian Helicopters, Rosoboronexport and HAL had almost completed the formalities for the joint venture to localise the production of Ka-226Ts and deliver them to the Indian market. The joint venture was registered in May, 2017.

Stressing that Ka-226T meets the requirements of the Indian Navy, Boginisky clarified that the Navy's project for 111 helicopters is a separate project and is not related to the Ka-226T project of the Indo-Russian JV to produce 200 Kamov helicopters.

He added that selecting the Ka-226T for the Navy could help the Indian government save a lot of money, as there would be cost reduction due to sharing of service facilities, training for flight and maintenance and other related costs.

"Given the first project, this could be an advantageous option for India, as it would already have facilities for maintenance," he said.

When asked about the export prospects of Mi-8/17 and Mi- 171 helicopters, Boginisky said, "We consider that the export potential of these machines is still there. It is proven by a deep modernisation to develop the Mi-171A2 model, which includes more than 80 changes a ..
 

Snowcat

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Does it meet the specified requirements of IN ?
It is not a Twin Engine machine
It can not carry required 5 tons
It has no subsurface weapon system and required capabilities ...
Rotor blade folding parameters does not allow it to stored on ship properly.
It can not fly for required time. HAL says empty the helicopter and fixed many internal tanks and then fly it for two hours !!....... for the sake of flying ......:crying::crying:

I have observed in almost all discussions which invariably starts with gali-galoch, the DRDO / DPSU enthusiasts take the subject to the precipice where all of the aspects of their mal is stripped down to the state of being stark naked and then they start crying like children...

Kimkartabyavimuda ....
You lost the argument when you said it's not a twin engined aircraft. I would suggest you google some information before you start talking out of your bum.
 

Steven Rogers

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RFI For NUH says :

Capability. Which is the helicopter on offer for NUH? Will it be twin-engine, having wheeled landing gear, blade fold capability and qualified for military operations? Will it be capable of operating from ships and shore by day as well as by night and in Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) conditions? Will it be able to carry out all the roles mentioned at subsequent paragraphs with Maximum All Up Weight up to 5T?

Dhruv does not fulfill the first requirement itself then what is the use of heart burning ?
It is a 3 ton class platform but Navy require 5 ton class helicopter.
Then there are other essential conditions where there are ifs and butts every where.
Why scuttle "Modernisation" in the name of "indigenisation" particularly when there is nothing indigenous in it there ?
If it can not perform the required tasks, accepting it even "Free of Cost" will be professional dishonesty for IN.

Fact - Dhruv was never designed and made to be a NUH. It is a DPSU tendency of "Chepo" some rag tag jugadu mal / platform for a task for which the platform was originally never intended. It does not meet the requirement of flying for two hours with 20% reserve fuel then why should IN even look at it. IN needs NUH and not Naval Utility Toy.

Moreover, it is proposal under "Make in India" which stipulates at least 30 % indigenous parts - higher than those of Dhruv. Then why this rona dona ?
Son don't get confuse with LUH and ALH... RFI quotes for mtow not dry weight... Dhruv is 5. 5ton class chopper...Indigenous content by price on dhruv is 55 percent.... And ignorance has no cure.....
 

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