Indian Naval Aviation

Rahul Singh

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Further, I have stated many reasons why India or a number of countries should purchase the F-35. In India's case it will never procure the PAK-FA (FGFA) is vast numbers.
PMFA gives us flexibility to adapt it as per our need and put our systems as and when they are developed. In contrast, any possible purchase of F-35 will give us downgraded F-35 whose even a screw replacement would require White House's permission. May be war will end by then!

In addition the AMCA is only in the beginning of development and is 20-25 years off. (maybe longer) I would add from the information available it looks more like the ACMA is a 5th Generation Fighter. Which, would be near the end of development for such types by time it enters service. Which, is exactly what is happening with the LCA today.
Every time i see people saying AMCA will be delayed as LCA, i wonder if there is no such thing like learning from past mistakes and building future upon it.

So, in my personal opinion India needs to get back on track. One it needs to provide a strong defense that will counter China and Pakistan within the next 10-15 years. Which, must included a large number of 5th Generation Fighters. As China is currently developing at least two. (J-20 & J-31) Then India needs to join with a Western Power (i.e. US and/or Europe) to develop not a 5th Generation AMCA but a 6th Generation "AMCA". This will give India time to join a 6th Generation Project on the ground floor. Which, didn't happen with the PAK-FA. (FGFA)
Please define 6th generation fighter.
 

Crusader53

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PMFA gives us flexibility to adapt it as per our need and put our systems as and when they are developed. In contrast, any possible purchase of F-35 will give us downgraded F-35 whose even a screw replacement would require White House's permission. May be war will end by then!

Every time i see people saying AMCA will be delayed as LCA, i wonder if there is no such thing like learning from past mistakes and building future upon it.

Please define 6th generation fighter.

I've seen nothing to suggest that India would get a downgraded F-35.That is if it decided to purchase it. That really doesn't hold up to the smell test. As I could give countless examples of countries far less trusted than India. That receive top of the line US Hardware.


Also, while the AMCA may not take as long to develop as the LCA. It will be far more advance. That plus the many delays with most Indian Defense Projects. Hardly gives most comfort.


As for 6th Generation we are in the early concept stage. Yet, here is but one example....


Sixth generation fighter aircraft: rise of the F/A-XX - Airforce Technology
 
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lookieloo

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*Groan* The JSF program has been problematic enough despite the fact that it mostly leveraged existing technology. This 6th generation hoopla is dependent on a lot of gee-wizz stuff that doesn't exist at all yet. In any case, F/A-XX is nothing more than a program to replace the Superbugs in USN service and doesn't necessarily mean an all-new platform. My money says it'll probably end up being a later-block F-35C

Also, regarding the earlier tiff about India's LHD plans... just because a ship has a full-length flight deck doesn't mean it can (or should) operate F-35Bs. An LHD's main purpose in life is to move troops, not deploy fixed-wing assets. If the IN wants the capability, the yeah, the F-35B is the only STOVL jet in production; if they don't want it, the LHDs will still be able to handle their primary missions just fine with helicopters only. There's no obligation for everyone to do things the USN's way.
 

Sam2012

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India should limit itself from buying only transport aircrafts, Attack chopper etc . India should not buy F-35 since we already have Two Fifth generation fighter program( Su-50FGFA & AMCA) one from them can evolve to come up with Naval Variant , they might be as good as F-35 with its STOVL capability but it will save India from US blackmail of sanction:thumb:
 

Crusader53

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*Groan* The JSF program has been problematic enough despite the fact that it mostly leveraged existing technology. This 6th generation hoopla is dependent on a lot of gee-wizz stuff that doesn't exist at all yet. In any case, F/A-XX is nothing more than a program to replace the Superbugs in USN service and doesn't necessarily mean an all-new platform. My money says it'll probably end up being a later-block F-35C

Also, regarding the earlier tiff about India's LHD plans... just because a ship has a full-length flight deck doesn't mean it can (or should) operate F-35Bs. An LHD's main purpose in life is to move troops, not deploy fixed-wing assets. If the IN wants the capability, the yeah, the F-35B is the only STOVL jet in production; if they don't want it, the LHDs will still be able to handle their primary missions just fine with helicopters only. There's no obligation for everyone to do things the USN's way.
The F/A-XX (NGAD) is just at the concept stage and it will be sometime before it gets off the ground. Yet, my point with India is it needs to get in early. So, it can join a program before it starts. Which, did not happen with the PAK-FA. As for the US in the short-term it is likely to purchase more F-35's. Until the F/A-XX or whatever it is called enters service. Which, is a good 20-30 years off.


As for LHD's the main role is to land and support the troops going a shore. Which, is why LHD/LHA's are equipped with Troop Helo's, Attack Helo's, and yes Fixed Wing Aircraft like the Harrier when available. As I stated before India will only have 1-2 Carrier available at any given time. So, who is to say they would be available to support the LHD's in any Amphibious Landings. In addition the AirWings are small and have to provide an number of missions. That is why I believe a strong case can be made for fixed wing aircraft on LHD/LHA's.
 

Rahul Singh

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I've seen nothing to suggest that India would get a downgraded F-35.That is if it decided to purchase it. That really doesn't hold up to the smell test. As I could give countless examples of countries far less trusted than India. That receive top of the line US Hardware.
Radar with reduced range--less power and reduced tracking distance--bugs for not allowing it to lock on US F-35, inferior communication systems, significantly degraded LO features --say Indian F-35 will be LO when USA F-35s will be VLO.

Don't doubt me just ask USAF/N/MF if they are comfortable with others having information about exact specifications of their sensors and RCS of their jet, especially which is to replace all of their existing fleet.

Also, while the AMCA may not take as long to develop as the LCA. It will be far more advance. That plus the many delays with most Indian Defense Projects. Hardly gives most comfort.
Plan is to test various systems of AMCA in LCA Mk-2 and develop their advance versions for putting into AMCA if and where needed. The way things are progressing since last five years i have more reasons be to optimistic than otherwise.

As for 6th Generation we are in the early concept stage. Yet, here is but one example....


Sixth generation fighter aircraft: rise of the F/A-XX - Airforce Technology
A concept, which is same as exo-atmospheric fighter jets. Well, we will get there if we continue to work towards that but immediate priority is to join the race which is only beginning.
 

wild goose

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India to commission its first supersonic naval fighter squadron



NEW DELHI: India on Saturday will commission its first-ever squadron of naval supersonic fighters, the MiG-29K "air superiority" jets, which will eventually operate from the decks of aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya ( Admiral Gorshkov) as well as the indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC).

Defence minister AK Antony will do the honours at the ceremony at the naval airbase INS Hansa in Goa, which will also mark the diamond jubilee celebrations of the fleet's "air arm" of the force. While celebrations are certainly in order, it also underlines the lack of long-term strategic planning and timely decision-making in the country.

The MiG-29Ks — the first 16 of the 45 fighters ordered from Russia for over $2 billion will constitute the INSAS 303 "Black Panthers" squadron — began arriving in India a couple of years ago but the 44,570-tonne Gorshkov will be ready for delivery only by end-2013 after being refurbished in Russia for $2.33 billion.

Similarly, the 40,000-tonne IAC being built at Cochin Shipyard will not be handed over to the Navy anytime before 2018, derailing the force's long-standing ambition to operate two full-fledged carrier battle groups (CBGs) by 2015. The 65,000-tonne IAC-II, in turn, remains merely on the drawing board as of now.

As earlier reported by TOI, India's only solitary carrier, the 54-year-old INS Viraat, is currently out of action while undergoing yet another life-extension refit. Moreover, it has only 11 Sea Harrier jump-jets left to operate from its deck, with no replacement of the fighters possible.

All this when the recent Pentagon report on China's growing military might holds Beijing is pursuing a robust carrier building programme after inducting its first carrier, the, the 65,000-tonne Liaoning, in September last year. "China is likely to build multiple aircraft carriers over the next decade," it said.

China, of course, will take some years to master the highly-complex art of operating its J-15 fighters from a moving airfield on the high seas and then transforming the entire package into a potent offensive weapons platform. India, in contrast, has been in the business of operating "flattops" for five decades now, commissioning as it did its first carrier INS Vikrant with SeaHawk jets way back in 1961.

It has long been realized that CBGs prowling on the high seas project power like nothing else on the globe. It's no wonder that as part of its impending pivot towards Asia-Pacific, the US plans to deploy at least six of its 11 CBGs — each American carrier is over 94,000 tonne and capable of handling 80-90 fighters — in the region. Asia-Pacific has emerged as the new strategic theatre for rivalry between US and China, with India too jostling for space with the latter in the Indian Ocean region.

However, India will be able to deploy two potent CBGs only after 2018 when INS Vikramaditya and IAC are able to operate together. This, however, does not detract from the sheer capabilities of the MiG-29Ks. With mid-air refuelling and an extended combat radius of operations as well as BVR (beyond visual range) and guided anti-ship missiles, MiG-29Ks will provide a "four-fold capability jump" over the Sea Harriers, say officers.

The MiG-29Ks, with a range of 1,300km and a service ceiling of 58,000-feet, are capable of STOBAR (short takeoff but arrested recovery) operations. They are armed with R-73 and RVV-AE guided air-to-air missiles, Kh-35E anti-ship missiles, KAB 500KR/OD TV guided bombs and S-8KOM rockets.


India to commission its first supersonic naval fighter squadron - The Times of India
 

AVERAGE INDIAN

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Indian Naval Air Commander Outlines Expansion Plan

The Indian Naval air arm is set to double its fleet of 217 aircraft in the next decade. The fleet–a mix of 14 models–"has emerged as a mini air force," said assistant chief of naval staff (Air) Rear Admiral D.M. Sudan.

On May 11 the Navy will commission the first of three MiG-29K squadrons at its base in Goa. One is for training. The 16 aircraft originally ordered have all been delivered, as have four of a further 29. They will fly from the aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya (previously Admiral Gorshkov), which has taken five years longer than planned to be refitted. Later, they will also fly from the Indian-built aircraft carrier (IAC-1), which is under construction in Kochi in Kerala. The MiG-29Ks are replacing Sea Harriers that previously received a limited upgrade. The VTOL aircraft will be phased out within two years.

The Navy is in the process of introducing 17 BAE Systems Hawk advanced jet trainers, which will be based on the East Coast beginning in July. At the end of the year, the Navy will take delivery of the first of eight Boeing P-8I Poseidons to replace Tu-142s in the long-range maritime patrol mission.

The Navy's main helicopter fleet of Westland Sea King Mk 42Cs was decommissioned even as the RFP for 16 new multirole helicopters was released. Finalists Sikorsky (SH-70) and NH Industries (NH-90) are in the process of "completing the discussions on offsets," Sudan told AIN. On whether the controversy over the AW101 helicopter buy could delay the decision, Sudan said, "The government has to make a call."

Concerns about the suitability of the HAL Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) remain. "The Navy has given [HAL] a lot of support, but the helicopter needs a blade fold and that it is unable to do"¦so we can't take it onto our ships," said Sudan.

Future indigenous buys include the naval version of the HAL light combat aircraft (LCA). The prototype flew last year and carrier compatibility trials are scheduled before year-end at the Navy's shore-based testing facility in Goa. "This is a critical test as [we will then know] if it can take off from and land on the carrier"¦We have grand plans for the LCA if it meets our requirements," said Sudan.

Indian Naval Air Commander Outlines Expansion Plan | Aviation International News
 

SilentKiller

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Of all services Navy seems to be progressing much better with regards to indigenous ships, new ships, new tech, new acquisition etc.
But sadly, two big indigenous projects for navy (Navy LCA) working quite slow, flew just 4 times and just 1 prototype till date.
I believe DRDO creates good projects but HAL is incapable to deliver them timely. HAL needs to upgrade its production line and increase its capability a lot.
i saw its ALH production line in Bangalore once it didn't looked modern enough, wasn't able to have a closer look. machine is modern is very good
for eg, navy has need of 40-60 LCA (considering we have 3 aircraft carriers by 2020 that's 7 years from now). say production of LCA (NAVY) starts from 2014 (most recent guess from me but my mind says 2015) that leaves 5 or say 7 years to provide naval LCA.
can HAL meet production rate of 8-10 naval LCA's?

please provide your suggestion or inputs all above are my observations.

Anyhow congrats to NAVY for this induction of Mig-29k, which is good plane and replacement for Harriers. Sadly we don't have carrier for them to use :(
good thing is our pilots are getting trained (Will have good flying time and knowledge) when carrier finally arrives in Dec (Hopefully fingers crossed) .
 

Kunal Biswas

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NP-1 successful flight..:D
A second naval Tejas is currently under construction. ADA has briefed Business Standard that a total of five naval Tejas prototypes will be built in the coming days, which ADA will use in the demanding flight test programme for certifying the fighter for operations off the flight deck of an aircraft carrier.

The 8 fighters now being ordered by the navy --- which HAL will build in what is called limited series production, or LSP
Any news on Naval version of LCA Tejas?:D
 

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