Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Scrutator]

I don't get this craze for "one more SINGLE engined' aircraft (possibly F16 or Gripen!)!!!

Why does it matter if the plane is single engined or not? All that should matter is the operational capabilities and the lifetime costs!!

The weird classification of fighter jets as single-engined vs twin-engined; light vs medium vs heavy aircraft is so unique to IAF only. Every other air force classifies aircraft by their respective roles!

Most modern aircrafts are multi-role/swing roles aircrafts!!

(There were days that most navies insisted on twin engines only - currently with improved reliability and higher thrust even naval aircrafts are single engined!!!)

Even though F16/Gripen might be tad cheaper than Rafales (bare bones), the overall REAL costs might be equivalent or cheaper with Rafales!! It is almost STUPID to introduce another aircraft type with it's own radar that will come with it's own set of weaponry - and the new radar (American) will be incompatible with the Indian made weapons or any other weaponry in the Indian stable!!

My thinking is that IAF should just either go for Tejas Mk2s or get more Rafales (which for better or worse will be introduced in IAF). That way the logistical costs for MRO and the weapons package could be minimized!!!

Further IAF is paying Rafale couple of extra billions just for customizations! That cost will get easily spread across more Rafales! Mind you, I am not advocating for Rafales. Just dislike another totally new aircraft!!

 

[ezsasa]

I don't get this craze for "one more SINGLE engined' aircraft (possibly F16 or Gripen!)!!!

Why does it matter if the plane is single engined or not? All that should matter is the operational capabilities and the lifetime costs!!

The weird classification of fighter jets as single-engined vs twin-engined; light vs medium vs heavy aircraft is so unique to IAF only. Every other air force classifies aircraft by their respective roles!

Most modern aircrafts are multi-role/swing roles aircrafts!!

(There were days that most navies insisted on twin engines only - currently with improved reliability and higher thrust even naval aircrafts are single engined!!!)

Even though F16/Gripen might be tad cheaper than Rafales (bare bones), the overall REAL costs might be equivalent or cheaper with Rafales!! It is almost STUPID to introduce another aircraft type with it's own radar that will come with it's own set of weaponry - and the new radar (American) will be incompatible with the Indian made weapons or any other weaponry in the Indian stable!!

My thinking is that IAF should just either go for Tejas Mk2s or get more Rafales (which for better or worse will be introduced in IAF). That way the logistical costs for MRO and the weapons package could be minimized!!!

Further IAF is paying Rafale couple of extra billions just for customizations! That cost will get easily spread across more Rafales! Mind you, I am not advocating for Rafales. Just dislike another totally new aircraft!!

1) Single engine fighters cost less in terms of operational costs, compared to double engined ones.
2) Two single engine fighters makes sense when one set of planes have to be grounded due to technical reasons.
3) Acquisition costs of single engine fighters are also less..

 

[Scrutator]

1) Single engine fighters cost less in terms of operational costs, compared to double engined ones.
2) Two single engine fighters makes sense when one set of planes have to be grounded due to technical reasons.
3) Acquisition costs of single engine fighters are also less..

The cost difference is not too much. Currently with all the heavy avionics packages that the aircraft carry, the cost component of engines (with regard to the cost of the whole aircraft) is much smaller than it used to be. Secondly, the current aircraft engines have a much longer lives than they used to be (requiring less changes, even when they do the cost component is not much)

The big advantage is great reduction in the logistics costs and weapons package. And don't forget, Rafale has a much higher 30% higher payload than F16/Gripen. Net-net one pays 30% more for it to carry 30% more ordnance (so lesser number of sorties & lesser number of aircraft required!!)

 

[Vijyes]

I don't understand what is the issue here. I have been telling that kaveri engine driven LCA and AMCA will be the sole short range and medium range fighters to replace all other short and medium range ones. FGFA is planned as heavy fighter.
I don't see a reason to have another single engine fighter. What is the point in having 'ANOTHER' fighter? Why not just have one indigenous fighter of one class? If the whole idea was to have foreign fighters, what is the point of making kaveri engine or even LCA? We could just buy the foreign items. The very reason for having Kaveri is to ensure that we don't face unnecessary sanctions during war.

Unless you are trying to say that the ANOTHER fighter will use kaveri engine and will be made indigenously, why would you have wierd thoughts? Are you some kind of effeminate person who thinks of planes as cute things and need a variety of them to keep you from getting bored?

 

[Prayash]

Must read article! Interview of IAF chief
http://m.rediff.com/news/interview/...iaf-is-expanding-at-a-rapid-pace/20170213.htm

 

[kunal1123]

why HAL take this project alone............... we got enough industrial base.................

 

[singh100ful]

why HAL take this project alone............... we got enough industrial base.................

Taking such projects alone will be costly and that too having no experience in building such aircrafts.
It is better to have joint production with full Transfer Of technology and no less than that.

 

[Bahamut]

why HAL take this project alone............... we got enough industrial base.................

There is a disagreement on the engine type, so I think we opted out but now a transport aircraft with 20 ton lift capacity must be given preference. The Russian have started the work on the alternative IL 214, we also need to start our work now.

 

[kunal1123]

Taking such projects alone will be costly and that too having no experience in building such aircrafts.
It is better to have joint production with full Transfer Of technology and no less than that.

i know it will be costly and risky, but drdo and hal have enough exp. in aircraft industry. and we have good industrial base. u got to start and it might make Russia to tweak it offer if they see India is doing there own. we already have know the requ. and this might be a good excuse for to start high-bypass turbofan engine. as apart from engine i guess India can make all sub-system. it will be much more beneficial in long run and we are not moving anywhere with Russia.

There is a disagreement on the engine type, so I think we opted out but now a transport aircraft with 20 ton lift capacity must be given preference. The Russian have started the work on the alternative IL 214, we also need to start our work now.

rightly said, i say rope tata,mandhria,l&t kalyani and other who want to get share,

 

[kunal1123]

UAC/HAL Il-214

The UAC Il-214 Multi-role Transport Aircraft (MTA) is a medium-airlift military transport aircraft which is being developed by the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) of Russia, and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) of India.[2][3] The two companies began the joint venture in 2009, when it was expected that each would be investing US$300 million in the project.

so 600 million in 2009 , now say 1.2 billion for span of 8-10 year that is 100 million per year i think india can handle that know .
TA was intended to replace the Indian Air Force's ageing fleet of Antonov An-32 which we have around 105 add another 30-40 total order is around 150. that say if we produce 20 toal order will take 10-11 year to complete that is quite good amount for return of investment.(excluding any export)

 

[kunal1123]

UAC/HAL Il-214

The UAC Il-214 Multi-role Transport Aircraft (MTA) is a medium-airlift military transport aircraft which is being developed by the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) of Russia, and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) of India.[2][3] The two companies began the joint venture in 2009, when it was expected that each would be investing US$300 million in the project.

so 600 million in 2009 , now say 1.2 billion for span of 8-10 year that is 100 million per year i think india can handle that know .
TA was intended to replace the Indian Air Force's ageing fleet of Antonov An-32 which we have around 105 add another 30-40 total order is around 150. that say if we produce 20 toal order will take 10-11 year to complete that is quite good amount for return of investment.(excluding any export)

 

[Prayash]

Jogal purohit with many good news!

 

[Prayash]

NAL Hansa aircraft flying in aeroindia

 

[kunal1123]

India to buy Russian AWACS aircraft

15 February 2017 Mikhail Nekrasov

The countries signed a contract on the sidelines of Aero India 2017.

1590


The A-50EI aircraft is based on the Ilyushin Il-76 transport aircraft.
Russia and India have signed a contract for the supply of A-50EI early warning and control (AWACS) aircraft, President of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) Yuri Slyusar told TASS on Feb. 14 on the sidelines of the Aero India 2017 air show.

Slyusar did not specify the number of aircraft covered by the contract.

In 2003, India bought three A-50 aircraft.

A-50 is used for detection and tracking of air targets and surface ships and alerting military command of air and surface threats. The aircraft can also serve as an airborne command post.
A-50EI is an upgraded version of the plane with Israeli-made EL/W-2090 radar designed specially for the Indian Air Force.

 

[kunal1123]

"As per the last reports IAF declined to work on the MTA because the Russians refused to develop (co-develop) the required engines which the Indians wanted to use on their own planes. So unless the Russians resolve to come around that one sticking point (along with the PM's Make In India call), I think it would be a foolhardy to presume that India would bite this new Russian proposal."

Aero India 2017: Russia to offer transport aircraft to India on new terms
The joint development of the military aircraft with HAL will cost around $ 600 million.
Prashanth G N

• February 16, 2017 14:23 IST

The new Multipurpose Transport Aircraft (MTA) is being offered by Russia at a lower cost to IndiaUnited Aircraft Corporation website
The Russia has once again offered the Multipurpose Transport Aircraft (MTA) to India and is ready to co-develop the aircraft with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) on new terms. This was revealed by sources in the Russian defence ministry to International Business Times, India, at the ongoing Aero India 2017.

Also read: Aero India 2017: F-16 Block 70 will strengthen India-US military-strategic alliance, says Lockheed Martin

The Multipurpose Transport Aircraft (MTA) is a joint international project implemented by the Russian JSC UAC-TA and the Indian aircraft corporation, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). It is being developed through an inter-governmental agreement between Russia and India.


Related

• HAL puts up a spectacular show at Aero India 2017; 'Indian Multi Role Helicopter' unveiled
• Spike family of missiles offered for Mi-17 weaponisation
• Aero India 2017: Anil Ambani flies French fighter jet Dassault Rafale

The project is in the design stage and the business plans have been developed. According to Russian and Indian officials, the project would cost around $600 million, which would be shared by Russia and India.

The MTA is expected to replace the 110 Antonov An-32 fleet of transport aircraft of the Indian Air Force (IAF). The aircraft's first flight was earlier expected by 2017, and it was scheduled to enter the IAF by 2018. But the negotiations over design and cost have delayed the project by more than five years now.

The IAF has planned to acquire 45 MTAs and the Russians, 105 MTAs. A model of the MTA was also displayed at Aero India 2009 making it a guaranteed project. According to Russian officials, there is huge scope for exporting the aircraft, both for civil and military use. Around 30 to 50 engineers will be involved in the design work along with engineers of the Russian United Aircraft Corporation (UAC).

Global market studies have shown that the demand is currently high for transport aircraft that can carry up to 20 tonnes over a distance of up to 3,000 km. According to regulatory documents, the MTA is classified as a strategic-tactical middle-sized military transport airplane. It provides for transporting a range of cargo weighing up to 12,000 kg over a distance of up to 4,700 km, as well as a 20,000 kg payload over a distance of 2,000 km, in any geographical or climatic conditions, day and night.

As a military transport airplane, the MTA is intended to ferry military personnel (up to 140 troops); paradropping (up to 90 paratroopers); and carry military property and equipment, general-purpose sea and air transport containers and pallets; paradropping goods and equipment on platforms; and the free-drop delivery of goods at low heights.

According to the Russian experts, the design parameters, cargo cabin dimensions, and power generator of the MTA enable it to carry up to 80 percent of the weapon and military-equipment types presently in use. "The cross-section dimensions of the pressurised cargo cabin of the MTA are identical to those of the IL-76MD heavy military transport airplane and enable the use of all existing cargo handling, shipping and dropping tools, and infrastructure. The airplane is able to operate transportation missions independently (away from the home base) and can be dispatched for a flight by the handling team and a flight crew of 2 to 6 individuals," a Russian aircraft engineer said.

Considering the high export potential of the airplane, its design process accommodates not only specifications from the Russian and Indian Air Force, but also the requirements of potential customers. The new transport airplane is expected to become an alternative not only to the An-12 and C-130 'Hercules', but also to the much smaller An-26, in emerging countries in 2015-2020. The MTA's significant advantage over its rivals is its low cost, the Russians claimed.

 

[ezsasa]

Based on whatever developments are happening on new acquisitions and inductions, 2020 is the right time for short term and 2030 for medium term assessment.

Let's hope defence friendly Govts keep coming to power in centre till then.

 

[kunal1123]

Based on whatever developments are happening on new acquisitions and inductions, 2020 is the right time for short term and 2030 for medium term assessment.

Let's hope defence friendly Govts keep coming to power in centre till then.

what about engines if Russia offer to develop new engines on PD-14M to incorporate IAF concern but India must to have joint i/p right then i say go for it...........

 

[Bahamut]

"As per the last reports IAF declined to work on the MTA because the Russians refused to develop (co-develop) the required engines which the Indians wanted to use on their own planes. So unless the Russians resolve to come around that one sticking point (along with the PM's Make In India call), I think it would be a foolhardy to presume that India would bite this new Russian proposal."

Aero India 2017: Russia to offer transport aircraft to India on new terms
The joint development of the military aircraft with HAL will cost around $ 600 million.
Prashanth G N

• February 16, 2017 14:23 IST

The new Multipurpose Transport Aircraft (MTA) is being offered by Russia at a lower cost to IndiaUnited Aircraft Corporation website
The Russia has once again offered the Multipurpose Transport Aircraft (MTA) to India and is ready to co-develop the aircraft with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) on new terms. This was revealed by sources in the Russian defence ministry to International Business Times, India, at the ongoing Aero India 2017.

Also read: Aero India 2017: F-16 Block 70 will strengthen India-US military-strategic alliance, says Lockheed Martin

The Multipurpose Transport Aircraft (MTA) is a joint international project implemented by the Russian JSC UAC-TA and the Indian aircraft corporation, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). It is being developed through an inter-governmental agreement between Russia and India.


Related

• HAL puts up a spectacular show at Aero India 2017; 'Indian Multi Role Helicopter' unveiled
• Spike family of missiles offered for Mi-17 weaponisation
• Aero India 2017: Anil Ambani flies French fighter jet Dassault Rafale

The project is in the design stage and the business plans have been developed. According to Russian and Indian officials, the project would cost around $600 million, which would be shared by Russia and India.

The MTA is expected to replace the 110 Antonov An-32 fleet of transport aircraft of the Indian Air Force (IAF). The aircraft's first flight was earlier expected by 2017, and it was scheduled to enter the IAF by 2018. But the negotiations over design and cost have delayed the project by more than five years now.

The IAF has planned to acquire 45 MTAs and the Russians, 105 MTAs. A model of the MTA was also displayed at Aero India 2009 making it a guaranteed project. According to Russian officials, there is huge scope for exporting the aircraft, both for civil and military use. Around 30 to 50 engineers will be involved in the design work along with engineers of the Russian United Aircraft Corporation (UAC).

Global market studies have shown that the demand is currently high for transport aircraft that can carry up to 20 tonnes over a distance of up to 3,000 km. According to regulatory documents, the MTA is classified as a strategic-tactical middle-sized military transport airplane. It provides for transporting a range of cargo weighing up to 12,000 kg over a distance of up to 4,700 km, as well as a 20,000 kg payload over a distance of 2,000 km, in any geographical or climatic conditions, day and night.

As a military transport airplane, the MTA is intended to ferry military personnel (up to 140 troops); paradropping (up to 90 paratroopers); and carry military property and equipment, general-purpose sea and air transport containers and pallets; paradropping goods and equipment on platforms; and the free-drop delivery of goods at low heights.

According to the Russian experts, the design parameters, cargo cabin dimensions, and power generator of the MTA enable it to carry up to 80 percent of the weapon and military-equipment types presently in use. "The cross-section dimensions of the pressurised cargo cabin of the MTA are identical to those of the IL-76MD heavy military transport airplane and enable the use of all existing cargo handling, shipping and dropping tools, and infrastructure. The airplane is able to operate transportation missions independently (away from the home base) and can be dispatched for a flight by the handling team and a flight crew of 2 to 6 individuals," a Russian aircraft engineer said.

Considering the high export potential of the airplane, its design process accommodates not only specifications from the Russian and Indian Air Force, but also the requirements of potential customers. The new transport airplane is expected to become an alternative not only to the An-12 and C-130 'Hercules', but also to the much smaller An-26, in emerging countries in 2015-2020. The MTA's significant advantage over its rivals is its low cost, the Russians claimed.

Hope for the deal to be rescued with new engine. Will boast our industrial as well as airlift capability.

 

[Prayash]

Times Now paid by saab, is promoting their gripen

 

[Adioz]

I don't understand what is the issue here. I have been telling that kaveri engine driven LCA and AMCA will be the sole short range and medium range fighters to replace all other short and medium range ones. FGFA is planned as heavy fighter.
I don't see a reason to have another single engine fighter. What is the point in having 'ANOTHER' fighter? Why not just have one indigenous fighter of one class? If the whole idea was to have foreign fighters, what is the point of making kaveri engine or even LCA? We could just buy the foreign items. The very reason for having Kaveri is to ensure that we don't face unnecessary sanctions during war.

Unless you are trying to say that the ANOTHER fighter will use kaveri engine and will be made indigenously, why would you have wierd thoughts? Are you some kind of effeminate person who thinks of planes as cute things and need a variety of them to keep you from getting bored?

What happens if some technical f**k up leads to an entire aircraft type being grounded? You cannot have only one type of aircraft performing one role. Something similar has occurred with the entire An-32 fleet being declared unfit for carrying passengers.
The ideal situation would be:-
Suppose the aircraft being talked about is a medium category aircraft with a service life of 30 years. It would be ideal to have 2 types with their introductions staggered 15 years apart. That way, the entire fleet will not reach obsolescence together. Only when an old type is being replaced with a new one, will we have three types of aircraft in the same category. Otherwise there will be two types in one category, for a total of 6 types for the entire air force fighter fleet.

Don't get me wrong though. I would love to see Indian industry create a new fighter every 15 years in each category (light, medium and heavy).

The weird classification of fighter jets as single-engined vs twin-engined; light vs medium vs heavy aircraft is so unique to IAF only. Every other air force classifies aircraft by their respective roles!

The light vs medium vs heavy categorization is something that has to do with IAF's operational doctrine. The whole high-low fighter mix and other concepts. And I do not see why aircraft should not be classified on this basis. I do agree that these classifications need a clearer definition.

I agree that 3 different medium aircraft (Rafael + AMCA + Single-engine-fighter-tender selection) is not good. That looks like its happening 'cause the air force is freaking out over falling fighter strength.

The single-engine vs double-engine classification has to do with maintenance and reliability IMHO. Engine failures are a persistent problem for the IAF.