Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

Filtercoffee

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HAHA. I agree with the notion of multi role aircraft. But remember that the total squadron strength requirements are still based on individual roles for the aircraft even though most new ones are multi role.
My peeve has always been that IAF doesn't use its money that wisely. I understand the limited budget IAF gets as part of the limited defense budget.
My thinking is that IAF ends up spending its money not necessarily in a way that optimizes the force efficiency; the spending patterns are contorted to fit the weird procedures/rules laid down by clueless bureaucrats!

In general, if you noticed, the rules/procedures for spending on existing aircraft (for upgrades etc) are generally much more lax than they are for procuring newer aircraft - for me its still hard to swallow the price of Mirage upgrades!! The bureaucracy has weird norms to shun 'single vendor' bids!! If you really want the best - there'll only be one of it. But the procedures forces the military to go for run of the mill commodity. The weird thing again is that they don't realize that upgrades (for which the procedures are much more lax than for procuring a new aircraft) essentially means a single vendor situation - and most of the time that vendor fleeces IAF!!

The way light/medium/heavy is defined is also very funny. Gripen which actually has similar base weight as Tejas does is actually classified in India as Medium class because it can carry more payload and that its max weight puts it in a different category!! It's all the more funny when ADA scientists try to explain why Tejas will carry less payload than Gripen (which has similiar engine) - because Gripen is higher 'weight' category plane!!

Net-net, I do think that inside the IAF they know that they need aircraft for specific roles/needs. But when that bubbles through the bureaucratic and political malaise it gets contorted to some weird sound bytes. I still scratch my head everytime Parrikar says "there is still a need for 100+ single engined foreign aircraft". I don't understand how any of those words fit a fighting doctrine of the air force!!
It is very regrettable for a quit job if any...I honestly hope you dont quit on us and stay with us. Further it is great to have a sesoned aerospace professional view which has come from you. We will miss your views as it was great to have you u with us....please stay.:scared2:
 

Tactical Frog

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I think this is worth of printing on a wall and buying darts !

I always hated ALL the anglo-saxon aviation medias for being so contemptuous with all things not American/ British generally.
Turns out they still haven't learnt anything looking at what they say about Tejas, right at the moment when Saab and Lockheed push for their single-engine fighters.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/opinion-india-needs-fighters-more-than-factories-434306/

Visitors to Aero India this year could be forgiven for feeling a sense of déjà vu. Back in 2011, the soundtrack to the show was the roar of fighter aircraft as eager bidders put their jets through their paces.

The noise was much the same this time around, with a number of repeat participants in the air display as the Dassault Rafale, Lockheed Martin F-16 and Saab Gripen all took to the skies.

Added to that was the familiar chatter from salesmen promising combat capability and, crucially, industrial partnerships.


Six years ago, Aero India saw the climax of the country’s medium multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) competition for 126 aircraft. This long-running saga had six actors, and featured plot twists and turns worthy of the most serpentine Bollywood epic.

The Rafale eventually won, but after years of tortuous negotiations, New Delhi ditched MMRCA altogether over disagreements about technology transfer. Instead, 36 Rafales were ordered in a flyaway condition.

Meanwhile, the fleet of Cold War-era MiGs that MMRCA was supposed to replace have steadily decayed, eroding the air force’s capabilities.

The other fighter that was meant to be a substitute for some of these aging assets, the Hindustan Aeronautics Tejas, has been a poor performer for years.

It is slowly entering service after decades of development. Measured against its own low levels, the Tejas is making progress. However, by international standards it is already obsolete.

This year’s show saw MMRCA veterans battling for several requirements, namely an ill-defined order for up to 100 single-engined fighters, plus a navy request for information for 57 carrier-borne jets.

Expect two things from both deals. First, a clunky MMRCA-style acronym will be applied to each. Second, the industrial participation, and technology transfer, required of manufacturers will be exceedingly high.

Local workshare is not all bad, and highly skilled aerospace jobs are the delight of politicians globally. That said, New Delhi appears to place far too much emphasis on the industrial value of buying fighter aircraft, rather than the military purpose of their acquisition.

Strategic imperatives cannot be comprised for the sake of economic benefit. If India’s new fighter acquisitions fail as dismally as MMRCA, the Indian air force will be staring at obsolescence.

In wartime, a nation’s industrial policies will be cold comfort to a pilot parachuting from a crippled jet.
 

kunal1123

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Good run F-16.........................:rofl::rofl::rofl:

IDEX 2017: Future F-16 Fighter Jets To be Made in USA

Our Bureau
11:54 AM, February 22, 2017
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IDEX 2017: Future F-16 Fighter Jets To be Made in USA
- A +
Future customers of F-16 fighter jets will get them shipped from the USA, a Lockheed Martin executive said implying an end to licence-manufacture of the aircraft in foreign countries.

Rick Groesch, Lockheed’s regional vice president, was quoted as saying at the IDEX 2017 show in Abu Dhabi yesterday, "The next customer that we sell F-16 to we will build them in the US."

Lockheed Martin has in the past assembled F-16s in Turkey, Belgium and the Netherlands in the past. However with the arrival of the Trump administration with its focus on keeping American jobs at home, US companies have to rework their export strategies.

The policy shift puts a big questions mark over Lockheed Martin’s and also Boeing’s pitch to manufacture the F-16 and the F/A-18 aircraft in India under the ‘Make in India’ Program. Both companies are in contention to manufacture single engine (F-16) and twin engine (F/A-18) jets in India to meet Indian Air Force requirements as well as to export them from India.

While Lockheed has offered to shift its F-16 plant to India and use up the space to meet growing demand for the F-35, Boeing has offered to set up modern plant in India provided it gets an order for around 100 aircraft.

Lockheed Martin is eyeing to upgrade F-16 aircraft with Middle Eastern customers such as UAE and Egypt besides completing the supply of 5-6 planes out of a 30 aircraft order meant for Iraq.
The US based firm is also in the running to supply some 19 new F-16s to Bahrain in addition to upgrading a quarter century old 20 Block 40 aircraft.

Lockheed is making presentations in the Middle East and Asia to evince interest in the latest F-16 version known as the F-16V which comes with advancements in radar, communications and weapons systems over earlier versions of the fighter jet.
 

Prayash

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Good run F-16.........................:rofl::rofl::rofl:

IDEX 2017: Future F-16 Fighter Jets To be Made in USA

Our Bureau
11:54 AM, February 22, 2017
333 views

IDEX 2017: Future F-16 Fighter Jets To be Made in USA
- A +
Future customers of F-16 fighter jets will get them shipped from the USA, a Lockheed Martin executive said implying an end to licence-manufacture of the aircraft in foreign countries.

Rick Groesch, Lockheed’s regional vice president, was quoted as saying at the IDEX 2017 show in Abu Dhabi yesterday, "The next customer that we sell F-16 to we will build them in the US."

Lockheed Martin has in the past assembled F-16s in Turkey, Belgium and the Netherlands in the past. However with the arrival of the Trump administration with its focus on keeping American jobs at home, US companies have to rework their export strategies.

The policy shift puts a big questions mark over Lockheed Martin’s and also Boeing’s pitch to manufacture the F-16 and the F/A-18 aircraft in India under the ‘Make in India’ Program. Both companies are in contention to manufacture single engine (F-16) and twin engine (F/A-18) jets in India to meet Indian Air Force requirements as well as to export them from India.

While Lockheed has offered to shift its F-16 plant to India and use up the space to meet growing demand for the F-35, Boeing has offered to set up modern plant in India provided it gets an order for around 100 aircraft.

Lockheed Martin is eyeing to upgrade F-16 aircraft with Middle Eastern customers such as UAE and Egypt besides completing the supply of 5-6 planes out of a 30 aircraft order meant for Iraq.
The US based firm is also in the running to supply some 19 new F-16s to Bahrain in addition to upgrading a quarter century old 20 Block 40 aircraft.

Lockheed is making presentations in the Middle East and Asia to evince interest in the latest F-16 version known as the F-16V which comes with advancements in radar, communications and weapons systems over earlier versions of the fighter jet.
So path cleared for gripen?we may see single bidder situation
 

sthf

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@Tactical Frog 73% of global news comes from just two countries US & UK so you can bet your top dollar they don't bother looking anywhere else.

Producing yet another single engined fighter is simply stupid. I understand that squadron strength is all time low but if French cease to be so stubborn, Rafale could fill up atleast 36 more (IAF) & 57 (IN).
 

alphacentury

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Another Super Hercules damaged in Ladakh, India now has only four

NEW DELHI: A C-130J 'Super Hercules' aircraft being flown by the commanding officer of the elite 'Veiled Vipers' squadron of IAF has been left badly-damaged after it crashed into a pole and other structures while taxing on the tarmac in the high-altitude Thoise airfield in Ladakh recently.

Sources say the IAF is now conducting a high-level court of inquiry (CoI) into the unusual mishap after relieving the pilot, Group Captain Jasveen Singh Chatrath, of his command of the 77 Squadron (Veiled Vipers) based at Hindon airbase on the outskirts of New Delhi.

The accident has currently left the IAF with only four of the six C-130J tactical airlifters, which are configured for `special operations', inducted from the US from February 2011 onwards. The IAF had earlier lost a C-130J during "a tactical low-level training sortie" after it crashed near Gwalior in March 2014, killing the five personnel on board.

Group Captain Chatrath, along with his co-pilot and weapons systems operator, in turn, was on a night sortie on the C-130J to the military airfield at Thoise, which is the staging area for the Siachen Glacier-Saltoro Ridge region, when the accident took place on December 13.

The IAF, which has kept the incident under wraps till now, refused to say anything on the matter. Sources, however, said the pilots apparently failed to keep the C-130J on the "centreline of the taxiway" after landing at the airfield at an altitude of over 10,000-feet.

"They mistook another line to be the centreline (which provides obstacle clearance) at the airfield which has restricted space for manoeuvre. One of the wings and propeller of the aircraft then hit the pole and some other objects with great impact. Whether the centreline and other lines were marked properly and all other factors are being examined by the CoI," said a source.

Group Captain Chatrath himself has a good reputation in the IAF for his professional competence, and has held important postings during his career, including project management of the AN-32 aircraft upgrade in Ukraine. "It's a freak accident, which has no bearing on his professional competence," said an officer.
In all, India has ordered 13 C-130Js from the US for over $2.1 billion. While the first six planes were inducted at the Hindon airbase, the rest are earmarked for the second C-130J squadron to be based at Panagarh in West Bengal for the eastern front with China.
In conjunction with 10 C-17 Globemaster-III gigantic aircraft, also acquired from the US for $ 4.1 billion, the C-130Js have provided strategic airlift and power-projection capabilities to India, which can now swiftly transport combat-ready troops and weapons to the border with China in times of conflict.

In August 2013, for instance, a C-130J had for the first time landed at the rudimentary airstrip in Daulat Beg Oldi (eastern Ladakh) at an altitude of 16,614-feet, the highest such advanced landing ground in the world that overlooks the strategic Karakoram Pass and is just about 7-km from the Line of Actual Control with China. The rugged C-17s and C-130Js have also been extensively used for providing humanitarian aid and disaster relief in India as well as the extended neighborhood.
 

Brood Father

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Another Super Hercules damaged in Ladakh, India now has only four
America / Russia ....We have aircraft which cannot be crashed

IAF ...Challenge Accepted

WTF ....IAF has become a laughing stock ...Can't get a foriegn plane , Don't want indian plane and the worst part whatever they have they are making sure that it is crashed ...
 

Tactical Frog

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@Tactical Frog 73% of global news comes from just two countries US & UK so you can bet your top dollar they don't bother looking anywhere else.

Producing yet another single engined fighter is simply stupid. I understand that squadron strength is all time low but if French cease to be so stubborn, Rafale could fill up atleast 36 more (IAF) & 57 (IN).
Not sure how French are more stubborn than Indian negotiators hehe .. but okay, message conveyed. There is no way than a 8,8 bn $ order for only 36 jets makes sense without a repeat order including a big MII component. But that is definitely not happening in 2017 .
 
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Bahamut

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America / Russia ....We have aircraft which cannot be crashed

IAF ...Challenge Accepted

WTF ....IAF has become a laughing stock ...Can't get a foriegn plane , Don't want indian plane and the worst part whatever they have they are making sure that it is crashed ...
Thoise has a very difficult approach, such mistakes happen in such airfields. We still do not know the conditions, may be there was tail wind or the pilot reduce the height to quick. Donot questions the training of IAF it is top quality. Most of US or Russian airfield donot have such approach. Only their best operate in such conditions while almost all IAF transport pilots will do such landings.
 

sthf

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I wasn't talking about that, I am talking about

"Dassault CEO Eric Trappier has said. However, a larger order of close to 200 Rafale jets would be ideal to transfer high end technology and manufacturing capabilities to India"

Now that is beyond unreasonable. o_OFrench production for its own service will come to an end by the time India gets its last of 36 ordered.
 

Tactical Frog

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I wasn't talking about that, I am talking about

"Dassault CEO Eric Trappier has said. However, a larger order of close to 200 Rafale jets would be ideal to transfer high end technology and manufacturing capabilities to India"

Now that is beyond unreasonable. o_OFrench production for its own service will come to an end by the time India gets its last of 36 ordered.
Maybe Trappier's maths are like this now :

if (126=36) then (200 =57) :playball:

You may be right about French production. French politicians quicker to cut on defence than anything else . Perhaps Rafale ´ s future is with India now ;)
 
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aditya10r

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Maybe Trappier's maths are like this now :

if {126 = 36 } then { 200 =57 } :playball:

You may be right about French production. French politicians quicker to cut on defence than anything else . Perhaps Rafale ´ s future is with India now ;)
Russia has expansionist plans for Europe then why the politicians are Hellbent on decreasing defence budget
 

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