Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

HimalyanRanger

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This is what happens when a millions strong army relies on import ..

IAF will never learn and will put its tail under like what it did in Kargil ..
That's TRUE. During Kargil, IAF said mountains are a challenge and we were not ready for such a scenario. Someone should ask them what were you waiting for when your whole north border is mountains.

The C130J replacement we purchased recently is for USD 134 million.
 

singh100ful

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That's TRUE. During Kargil, IAF said mountains are a challenge and we were not ready for such a scenario. Someone should ask them what were you waiting for when your whole north border is mountains.

The C130J replacement we purchased recently is for USD 134 million.
Hopefully this answers many of our questions.

Mystery behind repeated C-130/C-17 mishaps cleared
Posted on February 23, 2017by Bharat Karnad
February 21st saw a C-130J Super Hercules while taxi-ing for a night sortie at the Thoisie ALG in Ladakh instead of taking-off, run smack into a solid structure, nearly shearing off part of a wing and an outer turboprop engine requiring major expenditure to make the plane fit again. That this plane had the CO of the Hindon-based 77 Squadron, a presumably experienced transport pilot, one Grp Cpt Jasveen Singh Chathrath, at the controls only makes it worse. Three years back on March 28, 2014, another of this type of airlifter on a low level Special Forces’ drop training sortie proved that in IAF hands, it is neither super nor Hercules, leave alone ‘super Hercules’, when it dove into the ground killing the entire crew. This sorry record of IAF’s trouble with sophisticated transporters lit up again when a couple of years ago a C-17 Globemaster flew straight into a hill, again with the CO of that Unit commanding that flight.

After the 2014 C-130 accident, the statement by the air chief at the time Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha said the service had picked the best pilots to take charge of these American planes. If this is the level of aircraft handling ability of the best IAF transport pilots, then speculating about the averagely competent pilot’s ability (or lack of it) beggars the imagination.

But let’s tally the cost of the mishaps. The first lot of six C-130s were bought from Lockheed for Rs 6,000 crores, or a cool Rs 1,000 crore per plane. With one of these aircraft already lost, IAF has already had to write off Rs 1,000 crores. Not to be deterred, IAF means to buy a second lot of eight Super Hercules and, after a decent interval to give the Exchequer time to recover, a third lot of 6 aircraft for a fleet strength, minus the lost C-130, of 19 aircraft in all.

Ten C-17s were purchased for Rs 18,645 crores from Boeing, so the loss of one Globemaster cost the country, just for the hardware, the unit price of some Rs. 1,865 crores. Fortunately, Boeing has closed down the C-17 production line. So IAF-cum-Govt of India’s apparent default option of buying C-17s and C-130Js more to keep Washington pleased and the two US aviation majors in a happy state of anticipating richer deals in the offing, than because acquiring more and more of such aircraft makes any military, economic, or even political sense — is a line I have taken in previous writings. Especially, as the IAF chiefs have time and again disavowed any expeditionary role for the Indian military, which is what these planes do best. In the event, if all that was required of these aircraft was to lift troops from one sector to another, the IAF could, surely, have made do with the more economical workhorses to-date, the An-12s and An-32s.

The CAG in its 2014 Report was harsh on the parties involved, slamming Boeing for not fulfilling its offsets commitments — no simulators and ground equipment, such as fork lifts, were set up on Indian air bases, the IAF for not preparing the Hindon tarmac and the potential landing grounds elsewhere to the level of the required Pavement Classification Number, and implicitly both the GOI and IAF for not making any fuss whatsoever about the US Company not delivering on its contract obligations. The CAG also pointed out that owing to the absence of special forklifts on all the potential bases and LGs, the Super Hercules was compelled to carry one in its belly wherever it landed or took off from, but it took so much internal aircraft space — fully 35% of the cargo hold, that instead of just one sortie to carry a full load, two sorties were needed to do the job. And that cost money. The CAG calculated that it costs India Rs 43.19 lakh for every hour a C-130 is in the air. Post-CAG Report, whatever else was done or not done, Lockheed hurriedly setup a C-130 simulator near Delhi. It is not known if just one simulator is all that has been paid for, and whether the C-17 buy too mandated a Globemaster simulator in India which, perhaps, is not considering there were originally six and now only 5 of the C-17s remain, which number does not justify a simulator.

Like in the adventure — “Silver Blaze”, where Sherlock Holmes solved the mystery of the missing horse by referring to the fact of the non-barking dog in the stable (who recognized the miscreant as his master and didn’t raise hell), the mystery about why the Indian government did not cry foul and penalize Lockheed, is also easily solved. New Delhi (previously run by Manmohan Singh and now by Narendra Modi) as mentioned wants to be on the right side of the US because America is viewed as the vehicle for India to ride to economic prosperity and technological Valhalla! Remember too that the Lockheed F-16 and Boeing F-18 are on the short list of the proposed buy of 200 single-engined combat aircraft. But the matter of the unfulfilled offsets is of the gravest concern particularly because foreign suppliers, while ready to pocket the contract, are aware that GOI will do nothing if they fail to follow-through. In previous posts the fact of all kinds of exctraneous expenditures being counted as offsets has ben mentioned. Thus, the cost of seminars and conferences has been encompassed in the offsets cost. And it is very likely that Boeing and Lockheed charged the offsets account for the use of their simulators in the US to train C-17 and C-130 pilots, etc., even as the main purpose of the offsets to help build up an industrial-technological base goes unrealized. Then again, why should foreign companies deliver when there’s not a squeal out of the govt if they don’t?

The IAF, on its part, would have been pleased to carry on doing what it had done prior to the installation of the simulator here post-CAG Report : Send pilot crews in relays to train on Boeing simulators in Seattle an Lockheed simulators some place else in the US at additional expense (if nothing else in terms of extra pilot hard currency allowances and stipends for stays abroad). Why is lacing the selected transport pilots’ careers with nice little holidays in the American Northwest to uplift their spirits, not a good thing, is IAF’s thinking, given that the poor chaps cannot strut around back home like the fighter-jocks, who also hog all the plum posts in the service.
 

captscooby81

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Anyone here have any idea When did we loose a C-17 Globemaster by a CO straight into hill .. the kind of shit paid media we are tolerating in this country

IMG_20170224_131439.jpg
 

captscooby81

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We never lost a C-17 this looks more like a paid article or this moron was smoking something which was very good quality he started hallucinating.. There were only 5 C-17 incidents globally and one Fatal loss which happened with US airforce in Alaska .. Not sure what he is talking about flying straight into hill shit .. or did our Govt made biggest cover up of this decade where we lost a big bird and it didn't leaked to the media and the public ...


Hopefully this answers many of our questions.

Mystery behind repeated C-130/C-17 mishaps cleared
Posted on February 23, 2017by Bharat Karnad
This sorry record of IAF’s trouble with sophisticated transporters lit up again when a couple of years ago a C-17 Globemaster flew straight into a hill, again with the CO of that Unit commanding that flight.


Ten C-17s were purchased for Rs 18,645 crores from Boeing, so the loss of one Globemaster cost the country, just for the hardware, the unit price of some Rs. 1,865 crores. Fortunately, Boeing has closed down the C-17 production line. So IAF-cum-Govt of India’s apparent default option of buying C-17s and C-130Js more to keep Washington pleased and the two US aviation majors in a happy state of anticipating richer deals in the offing, than because acquiring more and more of such aircraft makes any military, economic, or even political sense — is a line I have taken in previous writings. Especially, as the IAF chiefs have time and again disavowed any expeditionary role for the Indian military, which is what these planes do best. In the event, if all that was required of these aircraft was to lift troops from one sector to another, the IAF could, surely, have made do with the more economical workhorses to-date, the An-12s and An-32s.
 

captscooby81

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Because they expect Uncle SAM to pay the bills for them as per the NATO accord . don't you remember Trump saying we will ask the countries to pay their bill whom we are protecting ...:rofl:

Russia has expansionist plans for Europe then why the politicians are Hellbent on decreasing defence budget
 

Tactical Frog

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Anyone here have any idea When did we loose a C-17 Globemaster by a CO straight into hill .. the kind of shit paid media we are tolerating in this country

View attachment 14103
It is not paid media at all . I have been reading Karnad about Rafale for a long time and my conclusion is : nobody in his/her right mind would want to pay this guy ! See what the risks are ;)

Edit : sme illustration in this good piece

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/an-alternate-view-on-the-rafale-deal/
 
Last edited:

vishwaprasad

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America / Russia ....We have aircraft which cannot be crashed

IAF ...Challenge Accepted

WTF ....IAF has become a laughing stock ...Can't get a foriegn plane , Don't want indian plane and the worst part whatever they have they are making sure that it is crashed ...
Exactly.... I had said this long time back its our pilots who are pathetic... god please have a mercy on those phalcons, c-130, c-17s, MKIs, forthcoming Rafales in the hands of such useless pilots....in peace time they are at their best imagine the attrition during actual combat.... every night I go to sleep with a fear in mind that I may get some bad news in morning about some of our top of the line plane getting KILLED in the hands of our pilots... when I do not come across such a news I am relaxed for a day... but again I have next night to spend under this fear...
 

captscooby81

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That s very Harsh on our pilots , i can vouch for some bit being from a family of a pilot who flew the Russian made IL-76 for 25 years . Our pilots are not so pathetic as you fear to be .. The best of the aircrafts crash from B777 to B747 its always the human error and the ground situations which contribute to an accident or incident . Our pilots are flying a Shit of Russian machines which are more than 40 years plus old and they are paying for it with their lives . So next time when you hear a crash please also spend a second about that valuable life which was also lost more than the machine ..

Exactly.... I had said this long time back its our pilots who are pathetic... god please have a mercy on those phalcons, c-130, c-17s, MKIs, forthcoming Rafales in the hands of such useless pilots....in peace time they are at their best imagine the attrition during actual combat.... every night I go to sleep with a fear in mind that I may get some bad news in morning about some of our top of the line plane getting KILLED in the hands of our pilots... when I do not come across such a news I am relaxed for a day... but again I have next night to spend under this fear...
 

vishwaprasad

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That s very Harsh on our pilots , i can vouch for some bit being from a family of a pilot who flew the Russian made IL-76 for 25 years . Our pilots are not so pathetic as you fear to be .. The best of the aircrafts crash from B777 to B747 its always the human error and the ground situations which contribute to an accident or incident . Our pilots are flying a Shit of Russian machines which are more than 40 years plus old and they are paying for it with their lives . So next time when you hear a crash please also spend a second about that valuable life which was also lost more than the machine ..
Its not harsh and I have no personal grudge about our pilots... but which plane they have spared till date in our inventory??? Okay agreed that MIG older series fighters they had some excuse but the list on new toys also goes on and on

Mirage 2000, I am sure they have crashed at least 5 of them till date
MIG-29, This number also well around 5-6
Sukhoi 30, 3 they have crashed?
Jaguars, this also they have crashed more than 5
C-130, 1 crashed and destroyed completely and this one is damaged
I remember they had crashed plane which was testing our ingenious awacs in past.

List goes on and on as I am not including many other accidents along with Choppers too... I hate to say but there is a thread on PDF about attrition rate in IAF.... try to go through... its really a shame...
 

tejas warrior

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Anyone here have any idea When did we loose a C-17 Globemaster by a CO straight into hill .. the kind of shit paid media we are tolerating in this country

View attachment 14103
Karnad is a great Indian who support indenigination from his heart.

He probably made a mistake in this article, C130 had crashed like what he meant.

Now PAID media will troll him like anything. We need to support him.


http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/wake-turbulence-led-to-c-130-j-aircraft-crash/

aircraft.jpg
 

captscooby81

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I will not waste my 2 seconds for PDF forums talking about our attrition or crash rate ..

Lets talk about our crashes remember no aircraft is immune to crash and which time and again worldwide has proved ..

How you ever gone deep into all those accidents and analysed how many was pilot error and how many was because of the machine let down the man inside the cockpit .

Mirage, Jaguar all area again nothing less than 30 year old aircrafts with so much issues we faced in running the maintenance .. there was a time once in IAF when they had the spare parts but didnt know where it is because of the manual paper work . Things have changed now atleast as per the current pilots in IAF now with computerisation they atleast know the inventory of the spares and parts and that s why slowly our serviceability and aircraft availability has improved in the last decade ..

See the recent Russian crashes in Sryia military intervention best of the best pilots as per you and they crashed Su-33 and Mig29k s ..

IAF also crashed Mi-17 when they were involved in the rescue operation of the uttarkhand floods and do you now they ran into a bad weather at the end of day after doing so many sorties ..

you say as if only we are the only airforce which makes crashes and the rest of the world fly with no accidents .

Its not harsh and I have no personal grudge about our pilots... but which plane they have spared till date in our inventory??? Okay agreed that MIG older series fighters they had some excuse but the list on new toys also goes on and on

Mirage 2000, I am sure they have crashed at least 5 of them till date
MIG-29, This number also well around 5-6
Sukhoi 30, 3 they have crashed?
Jaguars, this also they have crashed more than 5
C-130, 1 crashed and destroyed completely and this one is damaged
I remember they had crashed plane which was testing our ingenious awacs in past.

List goes on and on as I am not including many other accidents along with Choppers too... I hate to say but there is a thread on PDF about attrition rate in IAF.... try to go through... its really a shame...
 

vishwaprasad

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I will not waste my 2 seconds for PDF forums talking about our attrition or crash rate ..

Lets talk about our crashes remember no aircraft is immune to crash and which time and again worldwide has proved ..

How you ever gone deep into all those accidents and analysed how many was pilot error and how many was because of the machine let down the man inside the cockpit .

Mirage, Jaguar all area again nothing less than 30 year old aircrafts with so much issues we faced in running the maintenance .. there was a time once in IAF when they had the spare parts but didnt know where it is because of the manual paper work . Things have changed now atleast as per the current pilots in IAF now with computerisation they atleast know the inventory of the spares and parts and that s why slowly our serviceability and aircraft availability has improved in the last decade ..

See the recent Russian crashes in Sryia military intervention best of the best pilots as per you and they crashed Su-33 and Mig29k s ..

IAF also crashed Mi-17 when they were involved in the rescue operation of the uttarkhand floods and do you now they ran into a bad weather at the end of day after doing so many sorties ..

you say as if only we are the only airforce which makes crashes and the rest of the world fly with no accidents .
Lol... I am not forcing you to go and read it on PDF,,, but whatever info given there is with correct sources and true... How many air forces are flying 30 years old fighters and still crash rate much lower than us... for your reference PAF flying C-130s much earlier than us and no single crash... F-16 an excellent safety record in PAF again....

Once again I am not saying other air forces do not crash... I am just saying that our crashing rate is something ABNORMAL compared to other forces, if you still want to not to believe this you are free to have your own judgement...
 

singh100ful

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Its not harsh and I have no personal grudge about our pilots... but which plane they have spared till date in our inventory??? Okay agreed that MIG older series fighters they had some excuse but the list on new toys also goes on and on

Mirage 2000, I am sure they have crashed at least 5 of them till date
MIG-29, This number also well around 5-6
Sukhoi 30, 3 they have crashed?
Jaguars, this also they have crashed more than 5
C-130, 1 crashed and destroyed completely and this one is damaged
I remember they had crashed plane which was testing our ingenious awacs in past.

List goes on and on as I am not including many other accidents along with Choppers too... I hate to say but there is a thread on PDF about attrition rate in IAF.... try to go through... its really a shame...
When Iraq invaded Kuwait, kuwait asked help from saudi arabia.
The saudis have american armaments in their inventory. Many saudi air force pilots are also from pakistan
The Saudi air force did not even bothered to help, instead the pilots went on mass leave.
The reason which no one sees is the iraqi air force were trained by Indian air force.
There are crashes in every Air force. Not every country comes clean on crashes.
It is not abnormal, the issue here are lack of spares.
 

captscooby81

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Not going to counter your view anymore bro .. But its not abnormal and its not useless pilots we have .. time will tell sitting outside and with facts written on web making judgements it easy i would say very easy . Something similar to the sales forecasting which the companies get from Analyst but the reality in the ground will be always different and only the end salesman knows the story better than an Analyst sitting inside cubicle ..


Lol... I am not forcing you to go and read it on PDF,,, but whatever info given there is with correct sources and true... How many air forces are flying 30 years old fighters and still crash rate much lower than us... for your reference PAF flying C-130s much earlier than us and no single crash... F-16 an excellent safety record in PAF again....

Once again I am not saying other air forces do not crash... I am just saying that our crashing rate is something ABNORMAL compared to other forces, if you still want to not to believe this you are free to have your own judgement...
 

Prayash

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Spansen
A "Top Gun" Selfie Of This Surya Kiran Pilot [Coolness Unlimited]

The Surya Kiran team, displaying the pinnacle of flying skills.
This undated photograph shows an Indian Air Force [IAF] pilot taking a selfie,after rolling over & flying upside down, exactly overhead his team member, reminiscent of that iconic scene from Top Gun. Belonging to the IAF's Surya Kiran flight demonstration team, he is flying the recently adopted BAE Systems Hawk Advanced Jet Trainer [AJT], painted in the team's trademark Orange & White pattern. Quite a sight, ain't it?


click on the image to view it in larger size

via @writetake

Prior to this, the team enthralled crowds, flying the indigenous HJT-16 Kiran Mk.2 trainer aircrafts. Owing to a shortage of of trainer aircrafts in the IAF's inventory, however, these airframes were transferred to its training wings, operated from Air Force Academy, Dundigul, near Hyderabad, in Telangana. The choice of Hawks, as its aircraft of choice, was an easy choice. The state DPSU, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited [HAL], is, presently, in the process of manufacturing them under license from the OEM, to meet the training curriculum of the Air Force & Navy. Just a matter of building some more.

The Surya Kiran team is one of the few teams in the world regularly giving performances in a 9 aircraft formation. Expect them to be the showstopper during this year's Aero India 2017 air show, to commence in Bengaluru from Valentine's Day. Love it!
Godspeed
 

WolfPack86

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Plan to raise air squadron strength in IAF to 42 within a year: Marshal
The Indian Air Force has a depleted strength of 33 Air Squadrons but it is likely to be expanded to 42 after a year or so, according to Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief Training Command, Air Marshal SRK Nair.

He told reporters here that the depletion had been there for a while but now efforts were on to increase it to 42 air squadrons.

The IAF’s decline in squadron strength was criticised by a Parliament standing Committee recently. A report has said that India required 42 air squadrons to counter a two-front collusive threat. The Parliamentary panel has found that the gap between retirement of fighter aircraft after completion of their total shelf life far exceeded the rate of replacements.

IAF has started inducting Sukhoi-30s and the squadron is operational from Thanjavur airbase.

Meanwhile, efforts are on to induct Apache helicopters from United States and the process would begin from July 2019 and end by March 2020. Apache has been in service since 1984 in United States and the version that India is purchasing is the latest Block-III configuration that the US first got in 2011.

A total of 22 choppers are being bought for $ 1.4 billion.

http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=250723
 

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