Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[kunal1123]

Ajai Shukla erred in this article by using the lifespans of Russian engines as a yardstick to estimate the GE engines's number requirements.

here is another source and this is well known writer

https://bharatkarnad.com/2016/04/23/how-choices-get-made-develop-indigenous-vs-lisc-produce/

"Another such but slightly different, decision may soon be on MOD’s table. It involves the jet power plant for Tejas. The original General Electric F-404 capable of 80-85 KiloNewtons of thrust equipping Tejas is to be replaced by the GE 414-INS6 engine capable of 98KN or 22,000 lbs of thrust, turbofan, with afterburner. This was an indent for the navalised version. IAF, always the laggard fetched up later to demand the same engine. In 2010, India contracted to buy 99 of the 414s for the Tejas Mk-2 program, with the delivery begun in 2013. With the total requirement of 500-600 engines for the Tejas (with each 414 engine estimated to pull 3,000 hours of flying, and 3.5 engines for the lifetime of each aircraft), HAL is seeking to license produce them in Banglaore, in its well-honed SKD-CKD assembly mode that guarantees HAL continues to learn nothing about ingesting and innovating technology, and even less about designing and making aircraft engines."

and why i am so much sure about it because i have read the latest development in Snecma M88 to increase it life to 4000 hr. and i know that GE and Pratt & Whitney are in development to increase the life to 6000+. they might be near. but still they are not going to give it to india to further use and export so continuing kaveri and other engine is only option .

You kidding lol if 2035 is the date then Drdo And Hal Might Also work on an 6th Gen Fighter and Make MCA Tejas( Tejas MK2 Twin Engine)

2032 is time as same as 2022 for lca. the problem we overcome in lca will provide a lot help for amca just let proper funding to be given for prototype. current news show that drdo(ada) and hal has learn a lot from lca project...

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

2032 is time as same as 2022 for lca. the problem we overcome in lca will provide a lot help for amca just let proper funding to be given for prototype. current news show that drdo(ada) and hal has learn a lot from lca project...

2028 is the Induction Date in the worst case scenario the date for Amca Should be 2025 or The best case Scenario 2023

 

[Vijyes]

2032 is time as same as 2022 for lca. the problem we overcome in lca will provide a lot help for amca just let proper funding to be given for prototype. current news show that drdo(ada) and hal has learn a lot from lca project...

LCA Mk2 needs 2022 because it is not a priority for the following reasons :
1. ADA and DRDO can't work on 2 projects simultaneously - AMCA and LCA Mk2
2. AMCA is prioritised as LCA Mk1 works fine except for short runway take off from aircraft carrier. Mk2 is needed only for naval version and not airforce.
3. INS Vishal, the next aircraft carrier to be built indigenously will have EMAL that can lift even medium weight aircrafts like Rafale and AMCA. Considering that aircraft carriers are extremely expensive and critical, it is wise to use the best possible aircrafts in them. Using LCA when AMCA is available and acceptable is not meaningful.

LCA was delayed because UPA govt wanted to fund dole outs during recession 2009-11 and sacrificed funding for LCA and even Kaveri engine. Also, DRDO didn't have good coordination of what the requirements were from IAF.

 

[kunal1123]

2028 is the Induction Date in the worst case scenario the date for Amca Should be 2025 or The best case Scenario 2023

well possible if we are ready to spent extra greasuous amount of money like USA have spent on f35, but i don't think we need to there are other imp project and r&d where money required and we still have near 3 trillion economy but yes if hal -drdo-navy-and airforce work combine w can see the AMCA production rate same as today LCA around 2027-2028(will take more than 5 year to test all system) that will be very good as u see currently only usa have 5+ gen aircraft , china j20(= FGFA , J-31 only 2 prototype will not see production till 2022-25) no eu country is working in 5+ fighter plain(turkey is quite behind India they just started now ) Korea is on same phase with India, japan will sure go in fastfoward if they are serious but will be too costly for export, and now india not have that much diplomatically cloud for export fast-forward 2030 we will be 8+ trillion eco. and able to export. and first we need to get good hand on lca production to see challenge of aircraft production and maintenance

LCA Mk2 needs 2022 because it is not a priority for the following reasons :
1. ADA and DRDO can't work on 2 projects simultaneously - AMCA and LCA Mk2
2. AMCA is prioritised as LCA Mk1 works fine except for short runway take off from aircraft carrier. Mk2 is needed only for naval version and not airforce.
3. INS Vishal, the next aircraft carrier to be built indigenously will have EMAL that can lift even medium weight aircrafts like Rafale and AMCA. Considering that aircraft carriers are extremely expensive and critical, it is wise to use the best possible aircrafts in them. Using LCA when AMCA is available and acceptable is not meaningful.

LCA was delayed because UPA govt wanted to fund dole outs during recession 2009-11 and sacrificed funding for LCA and even Kaveri engine. Also, DRDO didn't have good coordination of what the requirements were from IAF.

1. actually it can just major focus change and lcamk2 project started way back and it already completed now it is upto hall to get it (and i think lca mk2 is delay due to engine not by ada)
2. yes amca is now priorities because lcamk2 ada work is almost over and there full focus is now on amca and ucav, and Nlca mk2 need to see production and deployment to fast track the NAMCA so it is not in back-burner it handle by another team.
3. nlca mk2 is not going to be in vishal in starting (might be after some time or only for testing ) and amce will be replacing mig 29 so nlca is the platform where u learn first that why both navy and ifa version this time is parallel for amca

and yes i fully agree with your last line on upa and drdo

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

well possible if we are ready to spent extra greasuous amount of money like USA have spent on f35, but i don't think we need to there are other imp project and r&d where money required and we still have near 3 trillion economy but yes if hal -drdo-navy-and airforce work combine w can see the AMCA production rate same as today LCA around 2027-2028(will take more than 5 year to test all system) that will be very good as u see currently only usa have 5+ gen aircraft , china j20(= FGFA , J-31 only 2 prototype will not see production till 2022-25) no eu country is working in 5+ fighter plain(turkey is quite behind India they just started now ) Korea is on same phase with India, japan will sure go in fastfoward if they are serious but will be too costly for export, and now india not have that much diplomatically cloud for export fast-forward 2030 we will be 8+ trillion eco. and able to export. and first we need to get good hand on lca production to see challenge of aircraft production and maintenance



1. actually it can just major focus change and lcamk2 project started way back and it already completed now it is upto hall to get it (and i think lca mk2 is delay due to engine not by ada)
2. yes amca is now priorities because lcamk2 ada work is almost over and there full focus is now on amca and ucav, and Nlca mk2 need to see production and deployment to fast track the NAMCA so it is not in back-burner it handle by another team.
3. nlca mk2 is not going to be in vishal in starting (might be after some time or only for testing ) and amce will be replacing mig 29 so nlca is the platform where u learn first that why both navy and ifa version this time is parallel for amca

and yes i fully agree with your last line on upa and drdo

A thing I think you don't know that there was TOT with Rafale Deal And of there will be TOT with FGFA Deal

 

[kunal1123]

and can please move the entire amca post to amca thread . that will be good.......

 

[kunal1123]

A thing I think you don't know that there was TOT with Rafale Deal And of there will be TOT with FGFA Deal

rafale deal tot is already wroking and fgfa is still some time away. but tell me how many tot do we have before this and how much we learn . i am not saying it is not possible ,nor i am saying that we will absurdly need to spend that much to make it but i am giving a realist time frame .i too wanted to see amca coming out from production around 2024-25 .
us see china started work on china started it work on j-31 around 2008-09 and 8 year latter they produce only 2 prototype when they steel it from Russia and USA. and a lot of money. i ma just been realistic about production

 

[kunal1123]

A thing I think you don't know that there was TOT with Rafale Deal And of there will be TOT with FGFA Deal

rafale deal tot is already wroking and fgfa is still some time away. but tell me how many tot do we have before this and how much we learn . i am not saying it is not possible ,nor i am saying that we will absurdly need to spend that much to make it but i am giving a realist time frame .i too wanted to see amca coming out from production around 2024-25 .
us see china started work on china started it work on j-31 around 2008-09 and 8 year latter they produce only 2 prototype when they steel it from Russia and USA. and a lot of money. i ma just been realistic about production

 

[kunal1123]

sorry for double post slow internet.......

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

rafale deal tot is already wroking and fgfa is still some time away. but tell me how many tot do we have before this and how much we learn . i am not saying it is not possible ,nor i am saying that we will absurdly need to spend that much to make it but i am giving a realist time frame .i too wanted to see amca coming out from production around 2024-25 .
us see china started work on china started it work on j-31 around 2008-09 and 8 year latter they produce only 2 prototype when they steel it from Russia and USA. and a lot of money. i ma just been realistic about production

Real Work On FGFA Started From 2011 ish and would be completed and Inducted In late 2018-or 2019 It Took Only 8 Years (At Max ) Real Work on AMCA Started In 2013 (AFAIK) So bro It is a possibility AMCA could also be completed in 8-10 Years

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

Real Work On FGFA Started From 2011 ish and would be completed and Inducted In late 2018-or 2019 It Took Only 8 Years (At Max ) Real Work on AMCA Started In 2013 (AFAIK) So bro It is a possibility AMCA could also be completed in 8-10 Years

That Too With Enough TOT and domestic Funding man I mean 40 or so Companies are Involved in the Project Of AMCA and 3000 Scientists and 700 Foriegn Scientists

 

[AnantS]

Real Work On FGFA Started From 2011 ish and would be completed and Inducted In late 2018-or 2019 It Took Only 8 Years (At Max ) Real Work on AMCA Started In 2013 (AFAIK) So bro It is a possibility AMCA could also be completed in 8-10 Years

Thats ambitious target for FGFA. Expect that fructify post 2020

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

Thats ambitious target for FGFA. Expect that fructify post 2020

Do not know if this is correct or not but
Wiki says ( yeah wiki so not a trustful source) IAF plans to Inductbit in 2017

 

[AnantS]

Do not know if this is correct or not but
Wiki says ( yeah wiki so not a trustful source) IAF plans to Inductbit in 2017

Never ever rely on Wiki. PakFA is running late. This will delay any indian version of it also.

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

Never ever rely on Wiki. PakFA is running late. This will delay any indian version of it also.

Researching It some websites say it will be Inducted in 2018 some says 2026 now iam researching more for an official statement on this

 

[kunal1123]

Real Work On FGFA Started From 2011 ish and would be completed and Inducted In late 2018-or 2019 It Took Only 8 Years (At Max ) Real Work on AMCA Started In 2013 (AFAIK) So bro It is a possibility AMCA could also be completed in 8-10 Years

for FGFA WORK put some link. the contract is just completed, that initial work not detail r&d.
and for amca yes the work started around 2013 but look there are still no funding and major rood block is engin.
we are not going to do same mistake twice(lca). so when u see that that problem solved add 5-7 year to get production (by going same methods 2 TD-5 PV-8LSP-SP'S)

That Too With Enough TOT and domestic Gunding man I mean 40 or so Companies are Involved in the Project Of AMCA and 3000 Scientists and 700 Foriegn Scientists

Yea i know but u see TOT is not that useful if you not speed on your internal research to learn from then.till now we are just copying the know-how. we need to get out to use that tot to know the why part. and that take time.

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/mca.htm though wiki says it is 2018-19
see this link can't open up because of adware

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

Never ever rely on Wiki. PakFA is running late. This will delay any indian version of it also.

AFAIK pak fa will be Inducted in 2018
http://thediplomat.com/tag/sukholhal-fifth-generation-fighter-aircraft-fgfat-50-pak-fa/

 

[kunal1123]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/mca.htm though wiki says it is 2018-19
see this link can't open up because of adware

i don't trust globlesecurity for running project here what i have some...

The aim is to fly the first twin-engine AMCA prototype by 2023-2024, which will be around the time deliveries of Tejas Mark-II fighters will be underway. IAF is slated to get its first Tejas Mark-I in March this year, over 30 years after the LCA project was first approved in August 1983. But the Tejas Mark-II jets, with more powerful engines, will start to come only by 2021-2022, as was first reported by TOI.

ADA Director P S Subramnaiam confirms to OneIndia that a total of nine prototypes would roll out of the AMCA hangar, starting 2020. "Extensive private participation is envisaged throughout the project, right from DDP to production," says Subramaniam. He says that a large number of DRDO and CSIR labs, IITs, IISc and private industries are already involved in the AMCA project

Read more at: http://www.oneindia.com/india/onein...hter-dream-moves-towards-reality-1653749.html

 

[AnantS]

AFAIK pak fa will be Inducted in 2018
http://thediplomat.com/tag/sukholhal-fifth-generation-fighter-aircraft-fgfat-50-pak-fa/

Russia inducts planes eve when they have not completed IOC/FOC. They aim to have IOC this year. So that means, even though inducted - plane still has to complete its developmental flights and achieve FOC. So what I stated still stands