Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[daya]

Around 55 to 60 percent of the total

Around 55 to 60 percent of the total defence budget goes into pensions and salaries. Less than 3 percent goes to R&D. A structural change is badly needed. Agnipath scheme is one such example

Yes, and the pension and salaries and allowances and other expenses of Commissioned Officers and rest other ranks may be calculated. Gaadi, bunglow, chaakar wagaira must be counted.

 

[flanker99]

Nothing more than that, LoL, during Op Gaganshakti 2018, the LCA Tejas Mk1 performed A2G missions better than even the SEPECAT Jaguar, a dedicated DPSA

And will that make it in the same league as a rafale,mirage,mig29?....mk1a has its merits and demerits but it wont solve all of iaf's problem ..we need a medium jet in large numbers asap

 

[another_armchair]

Where do we stand w.r.t two critical wings which seem inadequate in number for a two front war. These could be stretched in a full blown one-front war.

1. Mid air refulers

2. AWACS / AEW&C assets

Guess I missed this one.

Representational Image | The existing Netra Airborne Early Warning and Control aircraft (AEW&C) | Wiki Commons

The DRDO will get 6 aircraft from Air India, get them modified & fit them with the Airborne Early Warning & Control system that can detect & track all flying objects faster than ground-based radars.

theprint.in

Are these going to be Netra's or in the A-50 category?

 

[Knowitall]

That simply isnt true mk1a loiter time ,payload,ew etc cant never be close to a medium or heavy ...which is why they started development of mk2 in the first place.mk1a is a good mig21 replacement nothing more than that

You are looking at offense while I'm looking at defence.

As things stand today IAF can forget about sustained air offensives. Rather it should focus on air dominance across Indian frontiers.

There is something called attrition. Any conflict will witness some of our aircraft destroyed either on the ground or in the air.

We need to have sufficient fighters to maintain superiority over our borders at all times to help our army continue their ground offensives and holding operations.

 

[hit&run]

My perspective might not be accurate but there are some tough pills we need to swallow. Lack of good bvr missiles, lack of secure radio link, small fleet of awacs, were some of the very critical do flaws which should have been addressed way earlier. Why do we wait for instances like these to get to our senses.

Pakistani BVRs were dud or dodged the way they should have been.

IAF jets were not assigned to fire back.

Our AWACs were absolutely on the money visualising the whole theatre and giving live feedback along with real-time solutions.

Secure Radio links stood out as one of the shortcomings that may have been not considered while considering millions of other parameters.

The shortcoming has been fixed now. This is how you learn and improve. During training, you simulate every scenario but in a real war, you get to know that everything you learnt is of no use or the system you thought are the best became baggage.

 

[Love Charger]

Om shanti, a unfortunate incident
Nothing more to say

 

[flanker99]

You are looking at offense while I'm looking at defence.

As things stand today IAF can forget about sustained air offensives. Rather it should focus on air dominance across Indian frontiers.

There is something called attrition. Any conflict will witness some of our aircraft destroyed either on the ground or in the air.

We need to have sufficient fighters to maintain superiority over our borders at all times to help our army continue their ground offensives and holding operations.

That may be effective in case of pakistan but on china front we will be toast if we can't do air offensive inside enemy territory....this isnt a viable soln ..given the situation iaf should order 2-3 more mk1a sqd and be done with that category of jet...

 

[Javelin_Sam]

Nothing more than that, LoL, during Op Gaganshakti 2018, the LCA Tejas Mk1 performed A2G missions better than even the SEPECAT Jaguar, a dedicated DPSA

Add a pair of close combat R-73 AAM, then a pair of fuel tank and if one is serious to survive in an enemy airspace - jammer pods, then what significant ground attack munitions Tejas can carry is limited. It's one thing to do it in an exercise in one's home turf. Taking out the fuel tank will reduce any meaningful range out of the platform. Also heavier the bombs, lesser the time on station. If guides pgms have to be carried, add the pylon mounted targeting pod also.
We need the Tejas Mk2 to fill in the medium weight multirole category. Tejas mk1 and mk1a cannot do that. They are good air defence fighters from front line bases like Leh, Srinagar, Chandigarh, Barmer and Adampur etc ...

 

[Knowitall]

Pakistani BVRs were dud or dodged the way they should have been.

IAF jets were not assigned to fire back.

Our AWACs were absolutely on the money visualising the whole theatre and giving live feedback along with real-time solutions.

Secure Radio links stood out as one of the shortcomings that may have been not considered while considering millions of other parameters.

The shortcoming has been fixed now. This is how you learn and improve. During training, you simulate every scenario but in a real war, you get to know that everything you learnt is of no use or the system you thought are the best became baggage.

There are a lot of errors here.

First of all the use of AWACS that day is still hotly contested to this very day. No one can say for certain if the aircraft was present or not.

"IAF jets were not assigned to fire back." This is simply not true at all and no official order like this exists anywhere. The sukhois simply lacked the range to engage those jets which was one of the reasons why Astra missiles were fast tracked later on.

Secure comms were a serious issue which is slowly being changed now.

Another major issue left out was situational awareness and the shooting down of our own helicopter by our air defence systems.

Final point is ofcourse the direct ignoring of orders by abhinandan. By IAF's own records the ground control had conveyed abhinandan to turn back and retreat.

His ignoring of orders is what halted any further action against Pakistan and landed the govt in a clusterfuck where they had very little proof to show.

 

[White Wolf]

Guess I missed this one.

Representational Image | The existing Netra Airborne Early Warning and Control aircraft (AEW&C) | Wiki Commons

The DRDO will get 6 aircraft from Air India, get them modified & fit them with the Airborne Early Warning & Control system that can detect & track all flying objects faster than ground-based radars.

theprint.in

Are these going to be Netra's or in the A-50 category?

Netra mk1

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

And will that make it in the same league as a rafale,mirage,mig29?....mk1a has its merits and demerits but it wont solve all of iaf's problem ..we need a medium jet in large numbers asap

Tejas Mk1A is anyday leagues ahead of Mig-29 and Mirage 2000 in quite a few parameters.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Guess I missed this one.

Representational Image | The existing Netra Airborne Early Warning and Control aircraft (AEW&C) | Wiki Commons

The DRDO will get 6 aircraft from Air India, get them modified & fit them with the Airborne Early Warning & Control system that can detect & track all flying objects faster than ground-based radars.

theprint.in

Are these going to be Netra's or in the A-50 category?

Netra Mk2 will feature 300° radar coverage, 240° coverage from the flat panel mounted on top and 60° from a nose mounted AESA radar

 

[White Wolf]

There are a lot of errors here.

First of all the use of AWACS that day is still hotly contested to this very day. No one can say for certain if the aircraft was present or not.

"IAF jets were not assigned to fire back." This is simply not true at all and no official order like this exists anywhere. The sukhois simply lacked the range to engage those jets which was one of the reasons why Astra missiles were fast tracked later on.

Secure comms were a serious issue which is slowly being changed now.

Another major issue left out was situational awareness and the shooting down of our own helicopter by our air defence systems.

Final point is ofcourse the direct ignoring of orders by abhinandan. By IAF's own records the ground control had conveyed abhinandan to turn back and retreat.

His ignoring of orders is what halted any further action against Pakistan and landed the govt in a clusterfuck where they had very little proof to show.

As per the reports the transmission channel was jammed by Paf, he was not able to hear the ground crew.

 

[Knowitall]

As per the reports the transmission channel was jammed by Paf, he was not able to hear the ground crew.

It's all very conflicting as the ground command claims they had given the order to him he says he couldn't hear it on time. We will probably never know.

 

[vishnugupt]

Pakistani BVRs were dud or dodged the way they should have been.

IAF jets were not assigned to fire back.

Our AWACs were absolutely on the money visualising the whole theatre and giving live feedback along with real-time solutions.

Secure Radio links stood out as one of the shortcomings that may have been not considered while considering millions of other parameters.

The shortcoming has been fixed now. This is how you learn and improve. During training, you simulate every scenario but in a real war, you get to know that everything you learnt is of no use or the system you thought are the best became baggage.

Our UN Generals are often keep themselves busy in big ticket buying and this leave lower end in ruins.

They brought Su-30 but forgot to add jamming pod which was rusting in godowns for years.
HAL asking IAF for SDR but as usual UN Generals giving them constant spin from 2012.

Army even struggling to buy helmets, armour and rifles.

Basically UN Generals love to buy billion dollar machines but often forget to buy 10 rupees support system which effectively make billion dollar machines useless.

Samosa training:- they fired Brahmos missile by mistake. I don't think anybody in world will believe that despite of best training you fired a Nuclear capable missile by mistake.

 

[hit&run]

There are a lot of errors here.

First of all the use of AWACS that day is still hotly contested to this very day. No one can say for certain if the aircraft was present or not.

"IAF jets were not assigned to fire back." This is simply not true at all and no official order like this exists anywhere. The sukhois simply lacked the range to engage those jets which was one of the reasons why Astra missiles were fast tracked later on.

Secure comms were a serious issue which is slowly being changed now.

Another major issue left out was situational awareness and the shooting down of our own helicopter by our air defence systems.

Final point is ofcourse the direct ignoring of orders by abhinandan. By IAF's own records the ground control had conveyed abhinandan to turn back and retreat.

His ignoring of orders is what halted any further action against Pakistan and landed the govt in a clusterfuck where they had very little proof to show.

These points have been discussed before.

The fictitious arguments trying to put IAF down after today's accident using the last air skirmish with PAF is nothing but a black pilled vomitous. Neither they have analysed the last skirmish nor do they know the details of today's crash.

There are clear visualizations released by the IAF of the theatre. Even without the use of AWACS the ground CC was good enough to maintain the peacetime protocols and guide every asset that was in the Air or inside Pakistani air space.

On Abhinanad I wrote a detailed post on why he should have or why he would disregard the ground control's instructions. Which he did.

At one stage you Abhinandan disregarded the ground control's order not to engage and in the same post you say there were no such instructions for Sukhois. There was clear intent by CC not to escalate or follow peacetime protocols, scramble, watch and engage if they push further. As per ex-Chief Mr Singh they relied on the Air defence grid which became the main deterrence against the PAF ingress.

When Air defence engages a target it feedback in-built integrated IFF systems. There was no such upgrade of IFF transponders and interrogators with that IAF helicopter. It was a freak accident. The same Air defence grid did its job by stopping large PAF ingress that may have wreaked havoc. The point is picking on wrong conclusions and building a case is not going to help any constructive discussion.

I have seen this trend which is already visible here when many members will come raiding the thread with sermons to IAF.

Mid-air collisions happen especially when you are a large active air force always on its toes.

 

[hit&run]

Our UN Generals are often keep themselves busy in big ticket buying and this leave lower end in ruins.

They brought Su-30 but forgot to add jamming pod which was rusting in godowns for years.
HAL asking IAF for SDR but as usual UN Generals giving them constant spin from 2012.

Army even struggling to buy helmets, armour and rifles.

Basically UN Generals love to buy billion dollar machines but often forget to buy 10 rupees support system which effectively make billion dollar machines useless.

Samosa training:- they fired Brahmos missile by mistake. I don't think anybody in world will believe that despite of best training you fired a Nuclear capable missile by mistake.

Stick to one topic.

 

[AnantS]

It seems a chartered plane crashed in Bharatpur too! Sad day for aviation in India. Nothing about survivor or casualties known.

OM Shanti to pilot of Mirage 2000! I feel for the familiy of pilot given only body parts have been found Loss of two frontline planes and loosing pilot is setback for IAF.

 

[Love Charger]

It seems a chartered plane crashed in Bharatpur too! Sad day for aviation in India. Nothing about survivor or casualties known.

OM Shanti to pilot of Mirage 2000! I feel for the familiy of pilot given only body parts have been found Loss of two frontline planes and loosing pilot is setback for IAF.

Indeed may param pita parmeshwar take the pilot at his charan and may he attain moksha .
Om shanti

 

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