Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[vishnugupt]

I think we planned to have them , but the were dud + heavy. So we opted DARE jamming pods.

2017

EXCLUSIVE: How A Secretive DRDO Lab Is Saving The IAF Su-30MKI - Livefist

Several layers of biometric security protect one of India's most secretive military laboratories in Bengaluru, housed in a building where there are unsually low noise levels at all time. It's an almost modest level of sound for an institution that has put India…

www.livefistdefence.com

Arey Bhai, Suppa Duppa Israeli jammer kaise bhool gaye??
But Actually due to sudden burst of Gamma Rays from the Sun it was not working well.
Kya karte... Din hi bura tha sala.

 

[Knowitall]

Must be an insider in PAF that told you that they came only for touch and go.

No common sense told me they made a touch and go because the offical statement of IAF says that they launched their bombs and went right back.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

Before official reports, here is my assessment.
After collision in midair all pilots pulled ejection handle. Su-30mki pilot ejected but unfortunately Mirage pilot was not lucky enough.

Su-30mki keep on flying without pilot and eventually crashed in Bharatpur.

My guess
The wing of mki clipped wing/fuselage of m2k, mki being heavier caused more damage to m2k, which may have led to failure of election seat. In the process mki has 1 engine on fire and 1 wing damaged completely/partially. Mki pilots tried to control with one engine and 1 wing but couldn't and ejected near bharatpur.

 

[vishnugupt]

My guess
The wing of mki clipped wing/fuselage of m2k, mki being heavier caused more damage to m2k, which may have led to failure of election seat. In the process mki has 1 engine on fire and 1 wing damaged completely/partially. Mki pilots tried to control with one engine and 1 wing but couldn't and ejected near bharatpur.

Mirage and Su-30 mki pilots found in vicinity of each other ( All in MP) while Su-30mki found miles away in Rajasthan.

 

[Pandora]

Mostly maybe during the buddy mid air refilling.

 

[skunk works]

My guess

The wing of mki clipped wing/fuselage of m2k, mki being heavier caused more damage to m2k, which may have led to failure of election seat. In the process mki has 1 engine on fire and 1 wing damaged completely/partially. Mki pilots tried to control with one engine and 1 wing but couldn't and ejected near bharatpur.

I read the book 'Scream of Eagles' about the early years only the Top-gun school, and one thing that jumped out right away was how deadly the training was/is. So many fatalities.
There was one accident described that sounds eerily similar- 2 F4s collided while maneuvering training in close proximity, both pilots in one of the F4 killed.
Incidentally, this happened at Maharajpur AFS, which is India's top gun.
Accidents can happen in maneuvering, control lost all the time. I would not look too hard for a 'cause'.

Most specifically, they noted that pitting pilots of different experience/skill levels against each other increases risk of air to air.

 

[pankaj nema]

Such a Mid Air Collision Has Happened After 18 years

That is the ONLY consolation

 

[mist_consecutive]

Such a Mid Air Collision Has Happened After 18 years

That is the ONLY consolation

This

---------------------------------------------------------------

Honestly, even though I am dejected, angry, and hugely disappointed in our Air Force, the truth is mid-air collisions are hugely unfortunate and sheer "bad luck", instead of training/operational mistakes.

It is impossible to pin the blame on the pilot(s) without knowing what exactly happened, but mid-air collisions are rather unfortunate and happen regularly among professional air forces as well.

Anyway, I hope IAF buys some fighter jets and HAL gets their shit together and delivers Mk1A quicker.

 

[pankaj nema]

This

---------------------------------------------------------------

Honestly, even though I am dejected, angry, and hugely disappointed in our Air Force, the truth is mid-air collisions are hugely unfortunate and sheer "bad luck", instead of training/operational mistakes.

It is impossible to pin the blame on the pilot(s) without knowing what exactly happened, but mid-air collisions are rather unfortunate and happen regularly among professional air forces as well.

Anyway, I hope IAF buys some fighter jets and HAL gets their shit together and delivers Mk1A quicker.

If the Collision was during the Practice of a Bombing Run as said by A Journalist ie Aditya Kaul , Then it must be some pilot error

What I found on Twitter is that there were 2 Teams practicing a Bombing Run approaching from Two Directions

So if it was a Low level Bombing Manuever , one plane could have hit the other while regaining its altitude

 

[pankaj nema]

 

[vishnugupt]

Bhai ne meri analysis hi pel di hai.

 

[ezsasa]

use this thread for aero India related news

Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

I think we planned to have them , but the were dud + heavy. So we opted DARE jamming pods. 2017 https://www.livefistdefence.com/how-a-secretive-drdo-lab-is-saving-the-iaf-su-30mki/ Arey Bhai, Suppa Duppa Israeli jammer kaise bhool gaye?? But Actually due to sudden burst of Gamma Rays from the...

defenceforumindia.com

 

[hit&run]

No common sense told me they made a touch and go because the offical statement of IAF says that they launched their bombs and went right back.

So where do those rants stand of IAF is not able to counter them?

They launched a surprise attack and ran away. What do you expect a late-entrant Su-30 would do and what kind of a combat solution it will get from CC?

 

[hit&run]

The cognitive dissonance here is quite interesting.

SU-30s were a failure because they did not attack PAF.

PAF would have not wreaked havoc because they were innocent enough to do touch and go.

The use of Pakistani propaganda points and IAF's 'statement of fact' that does not indulge in possible escalation by PAF which was deterred by Ground Air defence is still not making in their defeated analysis that only seeks confirmation bias to fit their compulsive criticism.

 

[Blademaster]

Man I just wish IAF would bomb Pakistan again just to shut up all the naysayers. This debate has gone long enough.

 

[hit&run]

Those planes were some of the best that we have. And any pilots life is irreplaceable.

But yes, the details of the incident are not available. Of course some of the information will be classified and would not be shared with the public.

I am sure that many of us would like some JF17, J10C and even F16's of the PAF to crash to maintain parity.

Planes do crash. Occupational hazard.

No information doesnt mean one can not discuss. The point is to not start making vaugue accusation and offer vague soultions.

Enemy planes will crash too and they will recover and learn from it. The equation always stay in a balance. Even after 2 major wars they stood back with equal or better parity.

 

[Knowitall]

So where do those rants stand of IAF is not able to counter them?

They launched a surprise attack and ran away. What do you expect a late-entrant Su-30 would do and what kind of a combat solution it will get from CC?

I would let you read up about a concept called CAPS and radars.

You think Air combat lasts hours??? They barely last minutes before everyone goes their way.

The entire idea is to maintain enough situational awareness to spot your enemy beforehand to prevent them from striking where they want too.

If you detect them say a 100km away you don't actually have a lot of time bar 10-15 min before they get in range to release their payload.

Modern air fight is all about detection and domination from distance not waiting for them to come into your area and get away.

 

[hit&run]

I would let you read up about a concept called CAPS and radars.

You think Air combat lasts hours??? They barely last minutes before everyone goes their way.

The entire idea is to maintain enough situational awareness to spot your enemy beforehand to prevent them from striking where they want too.

If you detect them say a 100km away you don't actually have a lot of time bar 10-15 min before they get in range to release their payload.

Modern air fight is all about detection and domination from distance not waiting for them to come into your area and get away.

I have been reading about modern air warfare since half the members of this forum were in kindergarten. The kind of lexicon you use doesn't suggest that you have ever read CAPS and radars.

There are no rules for how long Air combat should last. The first engagement always favours the party with the element of surprise. The story of that Skirmishes ends there because PAF disengaged quickly. The same fact you have used to support your bias.

Furthermore, you have jumped into a discussion that was not related to yesterday's crash that I was trying to moderate when members started fighting over it. The details were not available yet you and your supporters brought in a past incident to criticize IAF. What the f this crash have to do with that?

As usual, many thrive on nitpicking and I am not going to feed it to you more after this.

Members should stick to the topic and help everyone decipher what the hell just happened yesterday.

 

[Javelin_Sam]

The cognitive dissonance here is quite interesting.

SU-30s were a failure because they did not attack PAF.

PAF would have not wreaked havoc because they were innocent enough to do touch and go.

The use of Pakistani propaganda points and IAF's 'statement of fact' that does not indulge in possible escalation by PAF which was deterred by Ground Air defence is still not making in their defeated analysis that only seeks confirmation bias to fit their compulsive criticism.

They just want to spin their statements to suit their agenda.

 

[Knowitall]

I have been reading about modern air warfare since half the members of this forum were in kindergarten. The kind of lexicon you use doesn't suggest that you have ever read CAPS and radars.

There are no rules for how long Air combat should last. The first engagement always favours the party with the element of surprise. The story of that Skirmishes ends there because PAF disengaged quickly. The same fact you have used to support your bias.

Furthermore, you have jumped into a discussion that was not related to yesterday's crash that I was trying to moderate when members started fighting over it. The details were not available yet you and your supporters brought in a past incident to criticize IAF. What the f this crash have to do with that?

As usual, many thrive on nitpicking and I am not going to feed it to you more after this.

Members should stick to the topic and help everyone decipher what the hell just happened yesterday.

Past incident to criticize IAF.

Oh I'm sorry next time I'll make sure to give them a pass when they crash an other CDS down the line or end up with the same squadron strength as pakistan. This bankrupt nation today has more AWACS than us which are an extremely important component in air warfare by the way.

You dont see me nitpicking the navy because one can see the effort that goes into the shipbuilding industry.

My orginal point yesterday was how IAF is unable to fill up numbers while losing jets in peacetime attrition.

Now peacetime attrition is fine. What is not fine is you still flying with cold war era relics and not having a suitable strategy to replace them.

People here are free to ignore the very obvious signs of corruption if it helps them cope but the condition of AF is there for everyone to see.