Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Javelin_Sam]

Our UN Generals are often keep themselves busy in big ticket buying and this leave lower end in ruins.

They brought Su-30 but forgot to add jamming pod which was rusting in godowns for years.
HAL asking IAF for SDR but as usual UN Generals giving them constant spin from 2012.

Army even struggling to buy helmets, armour and rifles.

Basically UN Generals love to buy billion dollar machines but often forget to buy 10 rupees support system which effectively make billion dollar machines useless.

Samosa training:- they fired Brahmos missile by mistake. I don't think anybody in world will believe that despite of best training you fired a Nuclear capable missile by mistake.

Just stop saying rubbish out of thin air. The jamming pods in Su 30 that defeated the multiple amraams launched against the fighters when Sukhois sticked to the protocol they were asked to.

 

[AnantS]

Ok wreckage found in bharatpur is also from set of crafts crashed over morena. No third plane crash. Aum Shanti to Pilot who attained veergati. May God give strength, succour and his protection to family of devangat pilot.

I wish and pray speedy full recovery to injured Sukhoi pilots

 

[vishnugupt]

Just stop saying rubbish out of thin air. The jamming pods in Su 30 that defeated the multiple amraams launched against the fighters when Sukhois sticked to the protocol they were asked to.

Bhai band kar de fekna …. Su-30mki was not carrying jamming pods while carrying BVR. First time jamming pod was seen operational on LAC after Galwan skirmish.

 

[Knowitall]

These points have been discussed before.

The fictitious arguments trying to put IAF down after today's accident using the last air skirmish with PAF is nothing but a black pilled vomitous. Neither they have analysed the last skirmish nor do they know the details of today's crash.

There are clear visualizations released by the IAF of the theatre. Even without the use of AWACS the ground CC was good enough to maintain the peacetime protocols and guide every asset that was in the Air or inside Pakistani air space.

On Abhinanad I wrote a detailed post on why he should have or why he would disregard the ground control's instructions. Which he did.

At one stage you Abhinandan disregarded the ground control's order not to engage and in the same post you say there were no such instructions for Sukhois. There was clear intent by CC not to escalate or follow peacetime protocols, scramble, watch and engage if they push further. As per ex-Chief Mr Singh they relied on the Air defence grid which became the main deterrence against the PAF ingress.

When Air defence engages a target it feedback in-built integrated IFF systems. There was no such upgrade of IFF transponders and interrogators with that IAF helicopter. It was a freak accident. The same Air defence grid did its job by stopping large PAF ingress that may have wreaked havoc. The point is picking on wrong conclusions and building a case is not going to help any constructive discussion.

I have seen this trend which is already visible here when many members will come raiding the thread with sermons to IAF.

Mid-air collisions happen especially when you are a large active air force always on its toes.

You make no sense whatsoever.

Also please quote me your source of sukhois not being asked to "engage" for some reason only known to you when the migs were already in the fight.

You talk about about aur defence gird but it did not stop the bombs from landing near army bases did they?

The PAF ingress you talk about was not supposed to push but rather cover the initial force. The job was never to properly ingress but rather make a dash release the bombs and go back across the borders.

The question is despite having info that an attack was about to come why were they caught so lacking.

 

[hit&run]

You make no sense whatsoever.

Also please quote me your source of sukhois not being asked to "engage" for some reason only known to you when the migs were already in the fight.

You talk about about aur defence gird but it did not stop the bombs from landing near army bases did they?

The PAF ingress you talk about was not supposed to push but rather cover the initial force. The job was never to properly ingress but rather make a dash release the bombs and go back across the borders.

The question is despite having info that an attack was about to come why were they caught so lacking.

Must be an insider in PAF that told you that they came only for touch and go.

 

[mokoman]

makes no sense to me , su pilots tried to turn the plane around , couldnt , crashed away from airbase ?

 

[Tridev123]

Very sad news.

I believe every Indian will share the pain of the loss and pray for the injured and the families of the deceased.

I believe that there is an collision avoidance system installed on civilian airliners which gives out an audio and visual alarm to the pilots in the cockpit. It is activated if two aircraft come too close to each other.

It helps the pilots to take evasive manoeuvres.

Why something similar was not installed in the Su30mki and Mirage 2000 aircraft. Agreed that they are war planes.Flying at high speed levels. But the software can be tweaked to maintain an minimum distance between the 2 planes.

If it is an genuine error of judgment on part of one of the pilot(s) then the planes software should be updated to allow the planes mission computer to override the commands from the pilot and initiate an collision avoidance manoeuvre. In other words the planes computer will temporarily take over the plane from the pilot.

During war this system can be inactivated.

On the other hand, getting into conspiracy theories.

If it is the result of an highly advanced sabotage operation mounted by another country, then we should unleash hell on the adversary. I hope we have the intelligence resources to execute an devastating response.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

makes no sense to me , su pilots tried to turn the plane around , couldnt , crashed away from airbase ?

Had read somewhere one engine had caught fire, and possibly due to this all systems and sub-systems were not functioning normally and therefore the pilots couldn't return back

 

[hit&run]

Very sad news.

I believe every Indian will share the pain of the loss and pray for the injured and the families of the deceased.

I believe that there is an collision avoidance system installed on civilian airliners which gives out an audio and visual alarm to the pilots in the cockpit. It is activated if two aircraft come too close to each other.

It helps the pilots to take evasive manoeuvres.

Why something similar was not installed in the Su30mki and Mirage 2000 aircraft. Agreed that they are war planes.Flying at high speed levels. But the software can be tweaked to maintain an minimum distance between the 2 planes.

If it is an genuine error of judgment on part of one of the pilot(s) then the planes software should be updated to allow the planes mission computer to override the commands from the pilot and initiate an collision avoidance manoeuvre. In other words the planes computer will temporarily take over the plane from the pilot.

On the other hand, getting into conspiracy theories.

If it is the result of an highly advanced sabotage operation mounted by another country, then we should unleash hell on the adversary. I hope we have the intelligence resources to execute an devastating response.

Wait for the details.

There are collision Avoidance systems both on ground and inbuilt. It seems to be training sorty trying out competing or following the mission brief involving two jets simulating a scenario or may be a dog fight.

Like I said wait for the details.

 

[hit&run]

Had read somewhere one engine had caught fire, and possibly due to this all systems and sub-systems were not functioning normally and therefore the pilots couldn't return back

Many could be/s.

Looks like there was no clearance to land as the status of Mirage was not known. They must be expecting it to make it back to the base.

 

[Javelin_Sam]

You make no sense whatsoever.

Also please quote me your source of sukhois not being asked to "engage" for some reason only known to you when the migs were already in the fight.

You talk about about aur defence gird but it did not stop the bombs from landing near army bases did they?

The PAF ingress you talk about was not supposed to push but rather cover the initial force. The job was never to properly ingress but rather make a dash release the bombs and go back across the borders.

The question is despite having info that an attack was about to come why were they caught so lacking.

They were not caught lacking. They foiled an attack by a fleet of multiple F-16s . All that PAF in their ultra uber F-16 was able to get was a soviet era MiG 21 that too the Abhis comms got jammed otherwise he would've heard the combat controller instructions to not cross over LoC or he got over enterprised in the heat of the battle and crossed over.

 

[Javelin_Sam]

Bhai band kar de fekna …. Su-30mki was not carrying jamming pods while carrying BVR. First time jamming pod was seen operational on LAC after Galwan skirmish.

MKI carried the Russian EW pods. The entire skirmish has been already discussed to dearth in the other forum even including some insider details.

 

[Tridev123]

Wait for the details.

There are collision Avoidance systems both on ground and inbuilt. It seems to be training sorty trying out competing or following the mission brief involving two jets simulating a scenario or may be a dog fight.

Like I said wait for the details.

Those planes were some of the best that we have. And any pilots life is irreplaceable.

But yes, the details of the incident are not available. Of course some of the information will be classified and would not be shared with the public.

I am sure that many of us would like some JF17, J10C and even F16's of the PAF to crash to maintain parity.

 

[senapati3]

Mirage and Su-30, both being Ace aircrafts of our inventory its really a sad incident.
Are we having incompetent pilots really to have these many crashes.

These pilots were from TACDE , they were well more than just competent , these incidents are unfortunate and happen with the best pilots.

 

[johnj]

View attachment 191457

https://web.archive.org/web/20040707093022/http://www.afa.org/magazine/july2004/0704watch.asp#:~:text=The%20Indian%20fighter%20pilots%20said%20they%E2%80%99ve%20been%20getting%20as%20many%20as%20300%20flying%20hours%20per%20year%20and%20that%20the%20majority%20of%20those%20hours%20was%20spent%20in%20full%2Dup%20combat%20training

.

From Cope India 2004.

Here you missing a big point, the report is two decade old and when majority of iaf jets were light & medium category, and now majority of iaf jets are heavy category. Heavy category jets need more maintenance, less availability rate etc and less sortie rate compared to rest. also you need to consider engine issues, russian spares issues of mki, lack of supersonic trainers etc etc during last two decades, plus during that[2000~2007] time IAF was superior to plaaf and only japan af and israel af can match iaf.

 

[NutCracker]

View attachment 191457

https://web.archive.org/web/20040707093022/http://www.afa.org/magazine/july2004/0704watch.asp#:~:text=The%20Indian%20fighter%20pilots%20said%20they%E2%80%99ve%20been%20getting%20as%20many%20as%20300%20flying%20hours%20per%20year%20and%20that%20the%20majority%20of%20those%20hours%20was%20spent%20in%20full%2Dup%20combat%20training

.

From Cope India 2004.

Here you missing a big point, the report is two decade old and when majority of iaf jets were light & medium category, and now majority of iaf jets are heavy category. Heavy category jets need more maintenance, less availability rate etc and less sortie rate compared to rest. also you need to consider engine issues, russian spares issues of mki, lack of supersonic trainers etc etc during last two decades, plus during that[2000~2007] time IAF was superior to plaaf and only japan af and israel af can match ia

yes report is so old , we barely had handfull of Su30 back then.
First Russia made Su30 entered into service in 2002. And first India assembled entered in 2004.

 

[vishnugupt]

MKI carried the Russian EW pods. The entire skirmish has been already discussed to dearth in the other forum even including some insider details.

True Bro.. I beg apology.

Everything was at place Actually It was fault of space Gravity that's why IAF was struggling on 27feb.

Spyder missile also fired towards F-16 but due to sudden change of earth axis Spyder hit Helicopter.

Abhinandan crossed LOC because earth rotated faster on that day which caused Mig-21 slided towards Pakistan.

Ofcourse a airforce, having merely billion of budget can't fight war against universal forces.

Jhoot hi bolna hai toh bhai Kami kyu rakhna. Feko pel ke.

 

[Love Charger]

makes no sense to me , su pilots tried to turn the plane around , couldnt , crashed away from airbase ?

Some on discord was saying that this area is a holding pattern of some sort during landing.
So they crashed into one another while being in the holding pattern
Well whatever it mewns

 

[vishnugupt]

Before official reports, here is my assessment.
After collision in midair all pilots pulled ejection handle. Su-30mki pilot ejected but unfortunately Mirage pilot was not lucky enough.

Su-30mki keep on flying without pilot and eventually crashed in Bharatpur.

 

[NutCracker]

MKI carried the Russian EW pods. The entire skirmish has been already discussed to dearth in the other forum even including some insider details.

I think we planned to have them , but the were dud + heavy. So we opted DARE jamming pods.

2017

EXCLUSIVE: How A Secretive DRDO Lab Is Saving The IAF Su-30MKI - Livefist

Several layers of biometric security protect one of India's most secretive military laboratories in Bengaluru, housed in a building where there are unsually low noise levels at all time. It's an almost modest level of sound for an institution that has put India…

www.livefistdefence.com

It all begins with the Russian SAP-518 jammer pod that Moscow supplied with the Su-30MKI. After grappling for years with the pod, the Indian Air Force finally in 2015 realised it simply couldn’t use them for two reasons. One, they were heavy — and when slung onto wingtip hardpoints, they cut into flying envelope like a butcher’s knife.

‘With the Russian pods, the Sukhoi is basically a transport aircraft,’ one of the scientists says.

The second issue is even worse. The IAF realised the SAP-518 pod hadn’t been properly interfacing with the indigenous on-board radar warning receiver (RWR), therefore killing pilots’ chances to exploit both systems fully.