Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Super Flanker]

We actually know nothing of what happened. This Feb 27th, Sameer Joshi (retd. pilot and entrepreneur), tweeted that M2000s had BVR exchanges with JF-17s and Su30MKIs with F-16s.

It is not sure how many missiles were actually fired, it is entirely possible we fired missiles on PAF ingressing jets but none hit them.

And I don't think we will ever get a full picture of what transpired, only tidbits here and there in the biography of pilots/ACMs.

Really? You really think that Indian Airforce jets had fired air to air Missiles at PAF jets that day? to be honest, this seems to be such a wild theory, there is absolutely no evidence to support this!
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Indian airforce jets didn't fire any Missiles at PAF that day. Even though there is a possibility that it might have happened but we may never know to be fair because Indian airforce mostly remains quite on such things.
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As now ,it is confirmed that It was only PAF's F-16s who were lobbing AMRAAMs at our SU 30 MKI Aircrafts and Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman who fired an R-73 at an F-16.
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(Even though the International community doesn't recognise this claim of Abhinandan firing an R-73)

 

[Super Flanker]

I apologise if this has already been discussed. So i had been lurking in brf and came across this new info on 27th feb air battle. In the book named 'balakot airstrike: how india avenged Pulwama' by manan bhatt it has been mentioned that the sole mki(codenamed Avenger 1) fired its cannon in direction of f-16.

This is mind boggling imho, that an air superiority fighter with one of the most powerful air intercept radar had to depend on its gun without firing any of its missiles (both bvr & wvr).

To be fair, there is always the Possibility that Avenger 1 might have fired it's guns at The F-16s till date there is not a clear picture about what happened that day and it's possible that what we are made to believe about the 27th February Aeriel engagement is possibly wrong.

Also I wanted to say something With regards to Avenger 1 Callsign SU-30 MKI Aircraft evading 4-5 AIM-1205C AMRAAM Missiles which were fired indiscriminately by Pakistani F-16s.

Also I did hear that there were some wild theories and Possibilities that Avenger 1 might have used it's own R-77 adder Missiles to shoot down a couple of AMRAAMs even though this is a really wild theory but there is always the Possibility that something like it might have happened.

We still don't know the Exact Picture of what might have happened that day.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Really? You really think that Indian Airforce jets had fired air to air Missiles at PAF jets that day? to be honest, this seems to be such a wild theory, there is absolutely no evidence to support this!
•
Indian airforce jets didn't fire any Missiles at PAF that day. Even though there is a possibility that it might have happened but we may never know to be fair because Indian airforce mostly remains quite on such things.
•
As now ,it is confirmed that It was only PAF's F-16s who were lobbing AMRAAMs at our SU 30 MKI Aircrafts and Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman who fired an R-73 at an F-16.
•
(Even though the International community doesn't recognise this claim of Abhinandan firing an R-73)

I have stated what I picked up from OSINT sources. There are different descriptions of the incident and what transpired.

As for if I think we fired missiles, I think it is entirely possible. In fact, it is harder to believe otherwise that we were shot at but we did not fire in retaliation.

 

[Super Flanker]

I have stated what I picked up from OSINT sources. There are different descriptions of the incident and what transpired.

As for if I think we fired missiles, I think it is entirely possible. In fact, it is harder to believe otherwise that we were shot at but we did not fire in retaliation.

I don't know From where you got this Information from what OSINT.

To be fair, I do accept the Possibility that Indian Airforce jets might have fired in retaliation of PAF firing AMRAAM Missiles fired by F-16 at SU 30 MKI Aircraft.

But for now I will just take it as an unrecognised theory and nothing else unless indian Airforce themselves publicly acknowledge that they Fired Missiles at the PAF jets.

 

[Kalkioftoday]

Still can't wrap my head around the fact that IAF let 27feb incident to happen without any significant counterattack. What is the point of operating expansive Sukhois or upgrading mirages with $60 million each if they can't even fire a single missile towards an enemy. And what more embarassing is that after the humiliation the IAF chief himself started (don't wanna say it but here goes nothing) ®andirona by saying that if they had this or that than the enemy wouldn't even dared. With this statement alone he just confirm the fact that our Sukhois and upgraded mirages are all toast in a real combat environment. This is my personal views BTW

 

[mist_consecutive]

Still can't wrap my head around the fact that IAF let 27feb incident to happen without any significant counterattack. What is the point of operating expansive Sukhois or upgrading mirages with $60 million each if they can't even fire a single missile towards an enemy. And what more embarassing is that after the humiliation the IAF chief himself started (don't wanna say it but here goes nothing) ®andirona by saying that if they had this or that than the enemy wouldn't even dared. With this statement alone he just confirm the fact that our Sukhois and upgraded mirages are all toast in a real combat environment. This is my personal views BTW

I feel you, I am still bitter about the IAF's lack of reaction from 27th Feb.

What I understood is, countries work on cold-hard logic, not emotional tantrums. Our objective was met, and the message was sent (Balakot bombing). Enemy's counterattack was thwarted with minimal damage (Mig-21 vs. F-16 trade, and the poor Mi-17), and hence thereafter there was no incentive left for further aggression.

Whatever propaganda rambling PAF does, on newspapers or the internet, matters naught as what actually happened is well known by all countries (USA, UK, China, Russia).

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Also, during that period, we shot down multiple small to mid UAVs of Pakistan in Gujarat, Rajasthan, and J&K, which somehow never got much publicity. Mainly by AA guns.

 

[Super Flanker]

Still can't wrap my head around the fact that IAF let 27feb incident to happen without any significant counterattack. What is the point of operating expansive Sukhois or upgrading mirages with $60 million each if they can't even fire a single missile towards an enemy.

Yes ,initially even I had thought so that Way to be honest on why we didn't retaliate against Against PAF jets.

But The reason that none of the Indian Airforce jets fired any Missiles at the Incoming PAF Aircrafts is that the PAF never crossed the LOC.

Our ROE(Rules of Engagement) says that we can't fired at or engage an Enemy unless they cross the LOC/IB.

PAF had come to attack our Indian Army military installations but they Missed all of their Bombs. Swift retort became Swift Retreat once Pakistan Airforce realised that their Numerical Superiority had dwindled by the time more indian Airforce jets were approaching the scene.

PAF had fired all of their Guided munitions(Which consisted of H-4 bombs and REK guided bombs) from stand off Ranges from their own Airspace.

Indian Airforce succeeded in failing the Objective of Pakistan Airforce that day. PAF was so scared that they lobbed guided bombs from their own Airspace.

Don't fall prey to PAF Propoganda, they lost an F16 to a MIG-21 that day.

 

[Kalkioftoday]

I feel you, I am still bitter about the IAF's lack of reaction from 27th Feb.

What I understood is, countries work on cold-hard logic, not emotional tantrums. Our objective was met, and the message was sent (Balakot bombing). Enemy's counterattack was thwarted with minimal damage (Mig-21 vs. F-16 trade, and the poor Mi-17), and hence thereafter there was no incentive left for further aggression.

Whatever propaganda rambling PAF does, on newspapers or the internet, matters naught as what actually happened is well known by all countries (USA, UK, China, Russia).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, during that period, we shot down multiple small to mid UAVs of Pakistan in Gujarat, Rajasthan, and J&K, which somehow never got much publicity. Mainly by AA guns.

Enemy's counterattack was thwarted with minimal damage (Mig-21 vs. F-16 trade, and the poor Mi-17), and hence thereafter there was no incentive left for further aggression.

The emotional tantrum you're talking about is "sovereignty" here. Learn from china, they attacked our position, took our land yet we didn't even tried to take their land or try to attack them in full force cuz we feared an all out war. This is what we should've aspire to be not seeking parity with those goatfuckers and "Minimal damage" you say?? Like really?? Only if you think that loosing our reputation/mig/helicopter/some good men is nothing and only than it'll be considered as minimal damage. In some other Western professional airforce they would've fired the air chief along with the people involved in this kind of mess.

 

[Kalkioftoday]

Yes ,initially even I had thought so that Way to be honest on why we didn't retaliate against Against PAF jets.

But The reason that none of the Indian Airforce jets fired any Missiles at the Incoming PAF Aircrafts is that the PAF never crossed the LOC.

Our ROE(Rules of Engagement) says that we can't fired at or engage an Enemy unless they cross the LOC/IB.

PAF had come to attack our Indian Army military installations but they Missed all of their Bombs. Swift retort became Swift Retreat once Pakistan Airforce realised that their Numerical Superiority had dwindled by the time more indian Airforce jets were approaching the scene.

PAF had fired all of their Guided munitions(Which consisted of H-4 bombs and REK guided bombs) from stand off Ranges from their own Airspace.

Indian Airforce succeeded in failing the Objective of Pakistan Airforce that day. PAF was so scared that they lobbed guided bombs from their own Airspace.

Don't fall prey to PAF Propoganda, they lost an F16 to a MIG-21 that day.

ROE(Rules of Engagement)

There's nothing called Rules of Engagement when the enemy already fired their missiles and bombs toward our position, doesn't matter if it was from their own airspace or heaven itself.

 

[Super Flanker]

There's nothing called Rules of Engagement when the enemy already fired their missiles and bombs toward our position, doesn't matter if it was from their own airspace or heaven itself.

To be fair, you do have a point there, I don't know why we didn't fire any Missiles that day in the retaliation of the Indiscriminate firing of AMRAAMS by Pakistan Airforce that day.

Anyways I believe we were also lacking in BVRs that day against Pakistan because PAF had Superiority in terms of BVR that day because of AIM-120C5 AMRAAM Missiles.

Do have a watch through this video by (Defence Matrix) it might help you to understand better.

 

[Covfefe]

Still can't wrap my head around the fact that IAF let 27feb incident to happen without any significant counterattack. What is the point of operating expansive Sukhois or upgrading mirages with $60 million each if they can't even fire a single missile towards an enemy. And what more embarassing is that after the humiliation the IAF chief himself started (don't wanna say it but here goes nothing) ®andirona by saying that if they had this or that than the enemy wouldn't even dared. With this statement alone he just confirm the fact that our Sukhois and upgraded mirages are all toast in a real combat environment. This is my personal views BTW

I feel you, I am still bitter about the IAF's lack of reaction from 27th Feb.

What I understood is, countries work on cold-hard logic, not emotional tantrums. Our objective was met, and the message was sent (Balakot bombing). Enemy's counterattack was thwarted with minimal damage (Mig-21 vs. F-16 trade, and the poor Mi-17), and hence thereafter there was no incentive left for further aggression.

Whatever propaganda rambling PAF does, on newspapers or the internet, matters naught as what actually happened is well known by all countries (USA, UK, China, Russia).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, during that period, we shot down multiple small to mid UAVs of Pakistan in Gujarat, Rajasthan, and J&K, which somehow never got much publicity. Mainly by AA guns.

I still believe that the story aftermath of Swift retort would've been different if WC wasn't made PoW. That brought an unexpected variable into the equation. IAF, otherwise, wouldn't have let go off an opportunity like that. They dropped bomb inside India, missing it aside, that gave IAF every right to bomb the hell out of their military installations.
But we'll possibly never know.

 

[mist_consecutive]

The emotional tantrum you're talking about is "sovereignty" here. Learn from china, they attacked our position, took our land yet we didn't even tried to take their land or try to attack them in full force cuz we feared an all out war. This is what we should've aspire to be not seeking parity with those goatfuckers and "Minimal damage" you say?? Like really?? Only if you think that loosing our reputation/mig/helicopter/some good men is nothing and only than it'll be considered as minimal damage. In some other Western professional airforce they would've fired the air chief along with the people involved in this kind of mess.

The equation with China is different. Things can go very south if acted impulsively like Pakistan. And we did attack them, did operation Snow Leopard, kicked their asses in Tawang.

Losing reputation over friendly fire is completely on IAF, and is unforgivable. People involved in it have been punished. Firing air chief, I am not sure, not remotely his fault.

But yeah, I understand you. I too wanted some sort of redemption from IAF after their fuckup.

I still believe that the story aftermath of Swift retort would've been different if WC wasn't made PoW. That brought an unexpected variable into the equation. IAF, otherwise, wouldn't have let go off an opportunity like that. They dropped bomb inside India, missing it aside, that gave IAF every right to bomb the hell out of their military installations.
But we'll possibly never know.

The capture of WC had little to no effect actually in original decision making. Media and (anti) nationalistic hype on media, yes.
Soldiers are captured/killed all the time. You don't change the tide of war on the fate of a single soldier.

We were due on attacking Karachi that night, Gen. Bajwa shitting his pants massively. Some Arab nations bargained with us for not attacking Pakistan in some back-channel deal and the attack was called away.

 

[Kalkioftoday]

The equation with China is different. Things can go very south if acted impulsively like Pakistan. And we did attack them, did operation Snow Leopard, kicked their asses in Tawang.

Losing reputation over friendly fire is completely on IAF, and is unforgivable. People involved in it have been punished. Firing air chief, I am not sure, not remotely his fault.

But yeah, I understand you. I too wanted some sort of redemption from IAF after their fuckup.



The capture of WC had little to no effect actually in original decision making. Media and (anti) nationalistic hype on media, yes.
Soldiers are captured/killed all the time. You don't change the tide of war on the fate of a single soldier.

We were due on attacking Karachi that night, Gen. Bajwa shitting his pants massively. Some Arab nations bargained with us for not attacking Pakistan in some back-channel deal and the attack was called away.

The capture of WC had little to no effect actually in original decision making. Media and (anti) nationalistic hype on media, yes.
Soldiers are captured/killed all the time. You don't change the tide of war on the fate of a single soldier

I completely agree with you here.

We were due on attacking Karachi that night, Gen. Bajwa shitting his pants massively. Some Arab nations bargained with us for not attacking Pakistan in some back-channel deal and the attack was called away.

This, i dont think so.

 

[mist_consecutive]

This, i dont think so.

Then you don't follow.

I have been present on this very forum since the Pulwama attack happened, Balakot strike, Feb 27th, the aftermath, all the copium-sniffing marathons, and througout RRs.

'Pair kaanp rahe the, paseene...’: Pak leader describes FM Qureshi's condition when Wg Cdr Abhinandan was held

(PML-N) league leader Sardar Ayaz Sadiq was speaking in Pakistan's Parliament when he made this revelation.

www.timesnownews.com

Read this.

 

[Knowitall]

Then you don't follow.

I have been present on this very forum since the Pulwama attack happened, Balakot strike, Feb 27th, the aftermath, all the copium-sniffing marathons, and througout RRs.

'Pair kaanp rahe the, paseene...’: Pak leader describes FM Qureshi's condition when Wg Cdr Abhinandan was held

(PML-N) league leader Sardar Ayaz Sadiq was speaking in Pakistan's Parliament when he made this revelation.

www.timesnownews.com

Read this.

Should have attacked them anyways.

The moment their aircraft launched attacks into our airspace that very moment should have been a declaration of war for attack on a sovereign nation.

 

[IndianHawk]

Should have attacked them anyways.

The moment their aircraft launched attacks into our airspace that very moment should have been a declaration of war for attack on a sovereign nation.

During balakot strikes our primary object was to establish conventional escalation ladder and remove nuke strikes from calculations when we retaliate against terror attacks .

We were successful in that objective.
Rest is all fluff.

 

[The Shrike]

During balakot strikes our primary object was to establish conventional escalation ladder and remove nuke strikes from calculations when we retaliate against terror attacks .

We were successful in that objective.
Rest is all fluff.

Has anybody official actually elucidated this?

 

[IndianHawk]

Has anybody official actually elucidated this?

No one official is going to say this. But that is what was being done.

When we did surgical strike in Uri. Pakistan denied it all together because accepting that would require them to escalate . So by denying the strike itself they kept there minion terrorist in vauge of so called nuclear protection of Pakistan.

But balakot openly changed that. Pakistan still denies the damage done in balakot and loss of f16. But it can't deny that on both days IAF jets were flying deep inside pakistan.

That mirages infact droped bombs in balakot even if on so called trees!
And mig21 was deep inside pakistan when it was shot.

And Pakistani response was dropping sowm ancient unguided dumb bombs from safety of theri side on loc .

Where is the nuclear protection for terrorists. It's gone forever . Their bluff is called and cards are out in open.

 

[Varoon2]

With the tragic and infuriating crash of an Mig-21 yesterday, there should be an immediate review and move to replace the aircraft with the Tejas. 3 lost this year, with the death of 2 pilots. This has got to be hurting the operational readiness of the IAF. And has anybody done a comparison of number of aircraft lost in India with other countries, in absolute numbers, as well as accidents related to flying time? Where does India stand here? One hopes in this case, not high.

 

[Brood Father]

Why no outrage ? Is the life of our aviators cheap ...No one is questioning UNAF and this has got them emboldened to send more of our finest to their early grave ....
Get the list of all the aviators who died in these accidents and send a letter to UNAF headquarters to get them sign and fund the indigenous products ..Today it is Mig , tomorrow it will be Sukhoi's and Rafales..
These foriegn dalals needs to pay ...