Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

Rassil Krishnan

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2019
Messages
619
Likes
1,642
Country flag
First thing I want tell everyone here is, giving a realistic view doesn't mean I am Appreciating PAF or their pilots. I can fondly remember PIA pilots who brought down their Plane just meters before runway while busy in discussing China virus ( Their Working Culture)

Operation fart was not a surprise attack in any sense. We did a strike deep into Pakistan and what are we expecting then?. for the sake many emotional guys here, I don't want to bring all things but during Balakot we failed to show our metal to the world and next day was indeed a disaster in all account.

Word "Achieving objectives" is not a purely military term, its a massage and we failed to send a clear massage to world over about our capability. literally nobody is backing our claims internationally.

Similarly a true air dominance is, to not allow your enemy to reach at your gate its not you repelled the attack after taking many casualties

Kargil won by Foot soldiers only ( Only entity I truly respect ) with relatively very less help from IAF. During Kargil war both party were restricted themselves within their respected border and Kargil also lies within India. Moreover there was no air fight still IAF lost few aircraft so this is wrong to say we have air dominance.
I really want somebody here to an audit on IAF role during Kargil War.

Again 71 war was won by Foot Soldiers ( most respected entity) by encircling Dhaka and eventually forcing Pakistan to surrender., Even during surrender west Pakistan managed to fly the jets.

BTW. You can still claim IAF saved the day but against whom?? A Piddi Pakistan and here people are happy just by saving the day while we are facing much larger and relatively more capable China on eastern front. Is it enough ??
See how cleverly points are inserted,'iaf did not do anything'.gaslighting one o one.

You can read many official records and documentaries how are iaf flew many sorties and destroyed aircraft in the 71 war and flew to deter pak from ground itself.the aircraft iaf lost was a helicopter not a plane,and we killed many using the artillery not just men.

I swear,people need a thorough instruction on how these narratives are made and gaslighting is done.
 

vishnugupt

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
636
Likes
1,546
Country flag
See how cleverly points are inserted,'iaf did not do anything'.gaslighting one o one.

You can read many official records and documentaries how are iaf flew many sorties and destroyed aircraft in the 71 war and flew to deter pak from ground itself.the aircraft iaf lost was a helicopter not a plane,and we killed many using the artillery not just men.

I swear,people need a thorough instruction on how these narratives are made and gaslighting is done.
Indian Army came into action in first week of May-1999 but IAF started their operation on last week of MAy-1999 and took 3 casualty on same day then they have bring Mirage in June.

Whole Mirage inventory did around 500 sorties. Imagine each aircraft did around 12-14 sorties in whole war. IAF dropped 52000kg of bombs which amount around 100-150 bombs ( most of were 500kg, many were 250kg). That's it

If you say IAF managed then Yes"
If you say IAF has total dominance then Absolutely No"

This is infantry ( foot soldiers) which not only save the day but won the war.
 

Tridev123

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
462
Likes
1,157
Country flag
No offence, but since when AMRAAM 120C became Brahmastra?? I think you are drawing far fetched conclusion from Balakot incident where in fact multiple AMRAAM failed to down Su-30mki. IAF has been superior from PAF in quality and quantity since its birth but it is IAF which failed on every occasions ( Maybe we need to import pilots and staff also).

36 Rafale is enough for special missions and don't forget, despite knowing threat countries maintain minimum deterrence rather than building massive capability for a war all the time.

Previous Rafale deal was negotiated best possible manner. We are not super power so we can offer other concessions like America.
Forget Rafale, Any import of jets will only be proved detrimental to Tejas-MK2 and AMCA.

TOT is a myth or better to say a form of corruption. there is no automatic TOT involves in a deal. For TOT either you have to pay heavily or you will get a technology which has became outdated ( Russian type of TOT )

India will get Hot engine technology either by strategic partnership ( Geopolitics ) or by it self. there is no other way around. Period
I don't think you have understood my statement.
For the PAF was (and is even now) madly in love with the F16. For them the F16 is the tip of the spear. A lot of ex PAF pilots swear by the F16.

As for the Amraam 120c it is a good bvr missile. Give the devil its due. A lot of American weapons are top class. We may love or hate the Americans but they do produce good weapons. The P8i aircraft in service in the Navy is a damn good system and was even used during the Doklam standoff with the Chinese. Our personal biases should not cloud our judgement.
This is not to say that the Russians produce crap. The Indo-Russian Brahmos is a world beater and ensures our maritime security. The Russian S400 is another top class system.

The PAF has a lot of faith in US weapons. After Kargil they placed a huge order for around 500 Amraam 120c missiles.

SO FOR THEM THE F16 WITH THE AMRAAM 120C5 WAS THEIR BRAHMASTRA.
NOT FOR US. Simple.
Is it difficult to understand.

Both the Su30mki and the Rafale come with their own strengths. Saying one is superior to the other is a wasteful exercise.
But the Rafale offers something extra to the Su30mki. That is why it was selected by the IAF. I hope you are not questioning the wisdom of the IAF pilots.
They are better judges of fighter aircraft than you or me.

Everybody supports indigenous weapons but India is still not in a position to develop and manufacture all of the weapons that it needs. That is why we are buying the S400 and the Rafale. It will take some time to attain complete self sufficiency.

The Chinese are at our door. The IAF does not want to buy another 200 Su30mki. It wants an aircraft that will meet the challenge from the latest Chinese fighters including the J20, J16, J10C etc. And one inescapable fact. The West still have a qualitative edge over the Chinese in aerospace. Whereas the Chinese have become familiar with Russian aircraft. They have their own version of the Su30mki.

I think we can afford more numbers of the Rafale what with the above 500 billion US dollars foreign exchange reserves.

I believe that in about an decade we will see India not buying any imported fighter aircraft. We have a lot of indigenous options under development.

Regarding jet engine technology, it is not going to be easy.
We need to invest more in research.
 

Tridev123

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
462
Likes
1,157
Country flag
The F-16 blk50/52 and their F-16 A/B upgraded to MLU standards will have a hard time defending against the Su-30MKI and the vanilla Adder. With the new RVV-SD missile and our own Astra, they will be outclassed by our MiG-29UPG and Su-30MKI.

Rafale comes much later.

If you want a dick measuring competition, 120C has a 105 km range compared to 110 km of Astra mk1 and RVV-SD.

I reckon we have even bought the newer longer ranged R-77M too. Then Astra mk2 is coming in 2023-24. PAF will still have it's AIM120C5 which will have depleted most of its technical life by then .
They will have to rely on SD-10A. A pathetic missile even by R77 standards .
I would be the happiest if our Su30mki shoots down the Pak Block52 F16.
 

vishnugupt

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
636
Likes
1,546
Country flag
I don't think you have understood my statement.
For the PAF was (and is even now) madly in love with the F16. For them the F16 is the tip of the spear. A lot of ex PAF pilots swear by the F16.

As for the Amraam 120c it is a good bvr missile. Give the devil its due. A lot of American weapons are top class. We may love or hate the Americans but they do produce good weapons. The P8i aircraft in service in the Navy is a damn good system and was even used during the Doklam standoff with the Chinese. Our personal biases should not cloud our judgement.
This is not to say that the Russians produce crap. The Indo-Russian Brahmos is a world beater and ensures our maritime security. The Russian S400 is another top class system.

The PAF has a lot of faith in US weapons. After Kargil they placed a huge order for around 500 Amraam 120c missiles.

SO FOR THEM THE F16 WITH THE AMRAAM 120C5 WAS THEIR BRAHMASTRA.
NOT FOR US. Simple.
Is it difficult to understand.

Both the Su30mki and the Rafale come with their own strengths. Saying one is superior to the other is a wasteful exercise.
But the Rafale offers something extra to the Su30mki. That is why it was selected by the IAF. I hope you are not questioning the wisdom of the IAF pilots.
They are better judges of fighter aircraft than you or me.

Everybody supports indigenous weapons but India is still not in a position to develop and manufacture all of the weapons that it needs. That is why we are buying the S400 and the Rafale. It will take some time to attain complete self sufficiency.

The Chinese are at our door. The IAF does not want to buy another 200 Su30mki. It wants an aircraft that will meet the challenge from the latest Chinese fighters including the J20, J16, J10C etc. And one inescapable fact. The West still have a qualitative edge over the Chinese in aerospace. Whereas the Chinese have become familiar with Russian aircraft. They have their own version of the Su30mki.

I think we can afford more numbers of the Rafale what with the above 500 billion US dollars foreign exchange reserves.

I believe that in about an decade we will see India not buying any imported fighter aircraft. We have a lot of indigenous options under development.

Regarding jet engine technology, it is not going to be easy.
We need to invest more in research.
Whatever you said is correct, its sound great and it also reflect you genuine concern on Ladakh standoff. But unfortunately, it is very hard to implement or we should have done it much earlier. Now buying Rafale will take at least another 6-7 years so what benefit you will get when We will have TejasMK2 by that time.
In India, anyone can go Supreme court and file a PIL after PIL to delay it further ( lots of Chinese agents in india ).

Why government will take headache for something which will be delivered in 2027 while we are facing Chinese today on border? Armed forces are unable to pay their dues to PSUs, delaying orders for Tejas MK1a and LCH and many others platforms which are ready to induct. Same will happen with future projects if we don't maintain defense finance today

Such standoff will come and go but in Reality, India have to stand its own. We must possess all technology and equipment in order to become a meaningful power in the world which we are on to. No matter how much money you have, by importing weapons neither you can win a war nor you will get respect from others ( Saudia is an example ). India has to work on a long term strategy to contain china.
 

Haldilal

लड़ते लड़ते जीना है, लड़ते लड़ते मरना है
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2020
Messages
5,539
Likes
17,553
Country flag
Ya'll Nibbiars IAF wants following deals to be signed by end of FY20 - 21 (Mar 21):
1 . 12 more Su-30 MKI by HAL.
2 . 21 MiG-29UPG from Russia.
3 . 83 Tejas Mk1A by HAL.
plus Navy wants KA-31 AEW chopper deal.
 

panzerfeist1

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2020
Messages
165
Likes
204
Country flag
Very random question

what he talking.PNG


Does anyone know what he is talking about and what RCS values the mig-21 had with or without RAM coating for India?
 

Arihant Roy

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2018
Messages
1,155
Likes
8,041
Country flag
Coming soon to Eastern Ladakh.

And a contract will be signed with IAI for 20+ Heron mk2 in December . These Herons will be placed under GOC Northern Command GOC 14 Corps.

EmOKZEeXUAAE_tj.jpeg



The 10 Heron TP will be for the IAF though.


This is the sar radar that the new Heronmkii will be having . We are going for the DL variant. From now on, the Chinese will not be able to pull a fast one on us.

EmOKZmhXYAA7VwI.jpeg


EmOKaVDXMAEQhmR.jpeg
 

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
8,682
Likes
12,317
Country flag
Why India Should Be The 2nd Country To Acquire The Russian, Stealth, Fifth-Gen Fighter Jet – The Su-57s?
Algeria has been the priority client for most advanced Russian weapons systems, and the acquisition of the Su-57 fighters is the latest example. The country has armed its troops with high-end weapons and air-defense systems procured from Russia. For instance, Algeria has acquired the S-400 and Pantsir-SM air defense systems, Iskander ballistic missiles, and MiG-25 Foxbat interceptors.

The Algerian Air Force is armed with premiere Russian fighters, including the Su-30MKA fighter, the MiG-29C medium fighter, the Su-24M dedicated strike fighter, and a single elite unit of heavily enhanced MiG-25 Foxbat interceptors.

Some media reports said Algeria’s acquisition of the Russian fifth-generation aircraft is in response to its rival Morocco buying F-16 Vipers from its ally, the US. If true, this is the first time that a fifth-generation stealth aircraft will be inducted by any country’s air force in Africa.

However, Eurasian Times could not confirm the veracity of the news reports emanating from multiple sources in different countries. Especially, since the Rostec aviation complex’s Industrial Director Anatoly Serdyukov told RBC news service in September 2020 that “until we supply enough machines to our own army, there will hardly be a noticeable demand on the foreign market.”

“The number one task now is to supply the (Su-57) aircraft to the Russian Armed Forces,” he said, adding that it was too early to supply fighters to foreign countries at this moment, although sales pitches were happening.

The Russian state-owned company Rosoboronexport also indicated that Moscow plans to present its fifth-generation tech to international markets in the next 5-7 years, including the Armata tank and the fifth-generation Su-57 fighter.

Therefore, it seems unlikely that Algeria could have inked the deal with Russia to acquire the Su-57 aircraft, especially when there has been no statement from either of the countries. Although the country does intend to procure the fifth-generation aircraft from Russia, which it confirmed in 2019 itself.

Moreover, Russia’s needs will always take priority over export, so unless the Russian Air Force doesn’t get the new jets it is unlikely to be exported to other countries. The Su-57 also does not yet have its export license, which is a necessary condition for any foreign sale of Russian military equipment, which reduces the odds of any non-Russian country flying the Su-57 before 2027 to zero.

Need for a Stealth Jet in India
India had withdrawn from the fifth-generation fighter aircraft program (FGFA) with Russia, a shared effort that was supposed to produce an improved variant of the Su-57 stealth fighter.

The Indian government had been facing significant issues with the program, with big delays and capacity shortfalls, forcing it to abandon the project altogether after many years of deliberations and struggles.

Many experts believed the joint program would have helped India save time and money by starting with an established design since the fifth-generation fighter jet programs end up being extremely complex, costly, and time-consuming affairs.

Experts believed sharing the program between the two countries could have been a win-win situation for both parties.

However, India still has a critical requirement of a fifth-generation fighter and there are no indications on how it will be achieved. The country’s own Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft program (AMCA) is a long-term effort and may take many more years to complete.

Even the Indian defense analysts have pointed out many flaws in the AMCA design, saying the fighter seems to focus on paradigms of combat that have long since been bypassed.

As Abhijit Iyer-Mitra writes in the Print, there is too much emphasis on engine thrust and thrust vectoring despite close-range air combat having moved away from G-force maneuvering to get into an attack position to Angle of Attack, which emphasizes maintaining power and recovery from a steep maneuver.

He continues, “AMCA focuses on continuing emphasis on kinetics as opposed to understanding that a fifth-generation aircraft is essentially a computer in the air, able to cut short the processing time, and reduce the ‘detect to kill chain’ (the time taken between detecting and killing an aircraft – essentially the ability to detect first and shoot first, and in the case of stealth, hopefully, avoid being detected) by several tens of seconds (the difference between life and death).”

It seems even if AMCA is flight-worthy in the next 5-6 years, it still lacks many cutting-edge combat innovations which are a trend in the foreign fifth-generation aircraft.

India also doesn’t have an option for acquiring the fifth-generation fighter from its ally, the United States, which is unlikely to part away from its advanced F-35 fighter. That leaves the country without an option.

The Indian experts opine that India will be unable to counter China’s PLA Air Force if it is made to wait a decade more for its fifth-generation fighter. Therefore, the acquisition of the Su-57 fighter jet is the only feasible option for the Indian Air Force, if it intends to stay in the game.
 

Narasimh

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Messages
651
Likes
1,613
Country flag
Why India Should Be The 2nd Country To Acquire The Russian, Stealth, Fifth-Gen Fighter Jet – The Su-57s?
Algeria has been the priority client for most advanced Russian weapons systems, and the acquisition of the Su-57 fighters is the latest example. The country has armed its troops with high-end weapons and air-defense systems procured from Russia. For instance, Algeria has acquired the S-400 and Pantsir-SM air defense systems, Iskander ballistic missiles, and MiG-25 Foxbat interceptors.

The Algerian Air Force is armed with premiere Russian fighters, including the Su-30MKA fighter, the MiG-29C medium fighter, the Su-24M dedicated strike fighter, and a single elite unit of heavily enhanced MiG-25 Foxbat interceptors.

Some media reports said Algeria’s acquisition of the Russian fifth-generation aircraft is in response to its rival Morocco buying F-16 Vipers from its ally, the US. If true, this is the first time that a fifth-generation stealth aircraft will be inducted by any country’s air force in Africa.

However, Eurasian Times could not confirm the veracity of the news reports emanating from multiple sources in different countries. Especially, since the Rostec aviation complex’s Industrial Director Anatoly Serdyukov told RBC news service in September 2020 that “until we supply enough machines to our own army, there will hardly be a noticeable demand on the foreign market.”

“The number one task now is to supply the (Su-57) aircraft to the Russian Armed Forces,” he said, adding that it was too early to supply fighters to foreign countries at this moment, although sales pitches were happening.

The Russian state-owned company Rosoboronexport also indicated that Moscow plans to present its fifth-generation tech to international markets in the next 5-7 years, including the Armata tank and the fifth-generation Su-57 fighter.

Therefore, it seems unlikely that Algeria could have inked the deal with Russia to acquire the Su-57 aircraft, especially when there has been no statement from either of the countries. Although the country does intend to procure the fifth-generation aircraft from Russia, which it confirmed in 2019 itself.

Moreover, Russia’s needs will always take priority over export, so unless the Russian Air Force doesn’t get the new jets it is unlikely to be exported to other countries. The Su-57 also does not yet have its export license, which is a necessary condition for any foreign sale of Russian military equipment, which reduces the odds of any non-Russian country flying the Su-57 before 2027 to zero.

Need for a Stealth Jet in India
India had withdrawn from the fifth-generation fighter aircraft program (FGFA) with Russia, a shared effort that was supposed to produce an improved variant of the Su-57 stealth fighter.

The Indian government had been facing significant issues with the program, with big delays and capacity shortfalls, forcing it to abandon the project altogether after many years of deliberations and struggles.

Many experts believed the joint program would have helped India save time and money by starting with an established design since the fifth-generation fighter jet programs end up being extremely complex, costly, and time-consuming affairs.

Experts believed sharing the program between the two countries could have been a win-win situation for both parties.

However, India still has a critical requirement of a fifth-generation fighter and there are no indications on how it will be achieved. The country’s own Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft program (AMCA) is a long-term effort and may take many more years to complete.

Even the Indian defense analysts have pointed out many flaws in the AMCA design, saying the fighter seems to focus on paradigms of combat that have long since been bypassed.

As Abhijit Iyer-Mitra writes in the Print, there is too much emphasis on engine thrust and thrust vectoring despite close-range air combat having moved away from G-force maneuvering to get into an attack position to Angle of Attack, which emphasizes maintaining power and recovery from a steep maneuver.

He continues, “AMCA focuses on continuing emphasis on kinetics as opposed to understanding that a fifth-generation aircraft is essentially a computer in the air, able to cut short the processing time, and reduce the ‘detect to kill chain’ (the time taken between detecting and killing an aircraft – essentially the ability to detect first and shoot first, and in the case of stealth, hopefully, avoid being detected) by several tens of seconds (the difference between life and death).”

It seems even if AMCA is flight-worthy in the next 5-6 years, it still lacks many cutting-edge combat innovations which are a trend in the foreign fifth-generation aircraft.

India also doesn’t have an option for acquiring the fifth-generation fighter from its ally, the United States, which is unlikely to part away from its advanced F-35 fighter. That leaves the country without an option.

The Indian experts opine that India will be unable to counter China’s PLA Air Force if it is made to wait a decade more for its fifth-generation fighter. Therefore, the acquisition of the Su-57 fighter jet is the only feasible option for the Indian Air Force, if it intends to stay in the game.
Amca does not have thrust vectoring planned... what is he talking about this kinetics over detection..why does he think is
it is mutually exclusive.. does not make sense
 

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
8,682
Likes
12,317
Country flag
SWARM DRONE SYSTEM WORK FAST-TRACKED TO TAKE ON CHINA’S AIR DEFENCE
NEW DELHI: India is accelerating plans to develop an air-launched swarm drone system designed to attack enemy advanced air defences, like the ones deployed by China across the Ladakh border, thereby greatly reducing vulnerability of pilots and fighter jets to ground based air defences.


The project, which envisages a Jaguar land attack aircraft launching up to 24 killer drones that take down individual targets, already has the Indian Air Force on board and involves at least two start-ups as well as Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), people aware of the development told ET.

Centre for Artificial Intelligence and Robotics (CAIR) is also involved to help build artificial intelligence (AI) capabilities for target acquisition.

Being developed under the Combat Air Teaming System (CATS) project, the plan is to complete the development process within four years, sources said. The project involves development of four individual systems that will be parallelly tested, they said. The design is underway.

As per current plans, the system will be designed around a manned Jaguar land attack aircraft that is used for deep penetration attack missions, sources said. The mothership would be modified to carry four pods – each a drone that would be able to fly alongside the Jaguar once released.

The concept is that each pod would carry six hunter killer drones that can be launched towards a target area. As the pods are being designed for autonomous operation, the Jaguar crew would be able to direct them in an anti-aircraft weapons environment while staying out of range.

Also being designed is a Very High Altitude Long Endurance (VHALE) unmanned aircraft that will be able to monitor the system and provide real time feedback to controllers. The VHALE is being designed to loiter for days at a stretch at above 70,000 feet, enabling a constant eye on the target area, while staying out of range of most air defence systems.

Sources said detailed presentations on the system have been made to the air force that has expressed a keen interest in the project. The next step is to test individual systems after the design process is completed.

The project would take India into a select league of nations with such technology, the others being France and the US. Sources said the initial projections make it a highly cost-effective system, with the developmental and prototype cost pegged at under Rs 1,000 crore.

While India has a combat edge in the neighbourhood as far as fighter jets go, the ever-present threat has been advanced air defence systems being acquired by adversaries.

The Chinese side has deployed its newly acquired S400 air defence system near Aksai Chin and is developing its own equipment that it is likely to share with Pakistan in the near future.
 

Arihant Roy

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2018
Messages
1,155
Likes
8,041
Country flag
Air Marshal HS Arora, VCAS witnessed Missile Firing at IAF Station Suryalanka on 01 Dec. Indigenous Akash and Russian Igla missiles were fired. He commended all personnel for professionalism and urged them to be ready to apply lessons learnt to any emerging operational scenario.

EoPUD5-VcAERbTi.jpeg


EoPUD6AUwAAvChu.jpeg


EoPUD6CVEAAIxQz.jpeg


The Vice chief,Air Marshal HS Arora is a Fulcrum guy.


There are pilots.
Then there are fighter pilots.
Then there are Fulcrum and Flanker pilots .
 

mist_consecutive

Squadron Leader, "BatEater Exterminators" Sqn
Contributor
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
947
Likes
6,157
Country flag
Air Marshal HS Arora, VCAS witnessed Missile Firing at IAF Station Suryalanka on 01 Dec. Indigenous Akash and Russian Igla missiles were fired. He commended all personnel for professionalism and urged them to be ready to apply lessons learnt to any emerging operational scenario.

View attachment 68712

View attachment 68713

View attachment 68714

The Vice chief,Air Marshal HS Arora is a Fulcrum guy.


There are pilots.
Then there are fighter pilots.
Then there are Fulcrum and Flanker pilots .
And these pilots bow to the Mig 21 pilots :)

Controlling Mig-29 (non-FBW) and Mig-21s and take advantage of high AoA requires skills and practice beyond normal jet pilots.
 

Global Defence

Articles

Top