Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Deadtrap]

PAF Fears Rafale Ambush, Cautions forward bases – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

 

[Tridev123]

PAF Fears Rafale Ambush, Cautions forward bases – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

The PAF has gone on the defensive.
The F16 block 52 armed with the AMRAAM 120C was their Brahmastra but now it has been outclassed by the Rafales and their Meteor BVR missiles.
This is exactly why we wanted the Rafale.
But 36 Rafales are clearly not enough.
Certainly not enough for a collusive China - Pak threat.
Our bureaucrats should negotiate with Dassault and get a good deal for India.
More Rafales built in India along with some significant technology transfer.
We should keep on trying for the French to help us with hot core technology for jet engines. They are reluctant but hopefully will eventually share the technology if we give them a good deal.

 

[vishnugupt]

The PAF has gone on the defensive.
The F16 block 52 armed with the AMRAAM 120C was their Brahmastra but now it has been outclassed by the Rafales and their Meteor BVR missiles.
This is exactly why we wanted the Rafale.
But 36 Rafales are clearly not enough.
Certainly not enough for a collusive China - Pak threat.
Our bureaucrats should negotiate with Dassault and get a good deal for India.
More Rafales built in India along with some significant technology transfer.
We should keep on trying for the French to help us with hot core technology for jet engines. They are reluctant but hopefully will eventually share the technology if we give them a good deal.

No offence, but since when AMRAAM 120C became Brahmastra?? I think you are drawing far fetched conclusion from Balakot incident where in fact multiple AMRAAM failed to down Su-30mki. IAF has been superior from PAF in quality and quantity since its birth but it is IAF which failed on every occasions ( Maybe we need to import pilots and staff also).

36 Rafale is enough for special missions and don't forget, despite knowing threat countries maintain minimum deterrence rather than building massive capability for a war all the time.

Previous Rafale deal was negotiated best possible manner. We are not super power so we can offer other concessions like America.
Forget Rafale, Any import of jets will only be proved detrimental to Tejas-MK2 and AMCA.

TOT is a myth or better to say a form of corruption. there is no automatic TOT involves in a deal. For TOT either you have to pay heavily or you will get a technology which has became outdated ( Russian type of TOT )

India will get Hot engine technology either by strategic partnership ( Geopolitics ) or by it self. there is no other way around. Period

 

[NAMICA]

No offence, but since when AMRAAM 120C became Brahmastra?? I think you are drawing far fetched conclusion from Balakot incident where in fact multiple AMRAAM failed to down Su-30mki. IAF has been superior from PAF in quality and quantity since its birth but it is IAF which failed on every occasions ( Maybe we need to import pilots and staff also).

36 Rafale is enough for special missions and don't forget, despite knowing threat countries maintain minimum deterrence rather than building massive capability for a war all the time.

Previous Rafale deal was negotiated best possible manner. We are not super power so we can offer other concessions like America.
Forget Rafale, Any import of jets will only be proved detrimental to Tejas-MK2 and AMCA.

TOT is a myth or better to say a form of corruption. there is no automatic TOT involves in a deal. For TOT either you have to pay heavily or you will get a technology which has became outdated ( Russian type of TOT )

India will get Hot engine technology either by strategic partnership ( Geopolitics ) or by it self. there is no other way around. Period

 

[vishnugupt]

क्या हुआ ?? आप अंग्रेजी नहीं समझते ??

 

[mist_consecutive]

No offence, but since when AMRAAM 120C became Brahmastra?? I think you are drawing far fetched conclusion from Balakot incident where in fact multiple AMRAAM failed to down Su-30mki. IAF has been superior from PAF in quality and quantity since its birth but it is IAF which failed on every occasions ( Maybe we need to import pilots and staff also).

36 Rafale is enough for special missions and don't forget, despite knowing threat countries maintain minimum deterrence rather than building massive capability for a war all the time.

Previous Rafale deal was negotiated best possible manner. We are not super power so we can offer other concessions like America.
Forget Rafale, Any import of jets will only be proved detrimental to Tejas-MK2 and AMCA.

TOT is a myth or better to say a form of corruption. there is no automatic TOT involves in a deal. For TOT either you have to pay heavily or you will get a technology which has became outdated ( Russian type of TOT )

India will get Hot engine technology either by strategic partnership ( Geopolitics ) or by it self. there is no other way around. Period

I was in approval with you till the green part. What happened in red?

Even your later part of the answer somehow makes sense. What is the previous Rafale deal ? You mean the congressi-era 126 MMRCA deal that never materialized ?

but it is IAF which failed on every occasions ( Maybe we need to import pilots and staff also).

But you better either justify this or I will make sure to get you banned.

 

[NAMICA]

I was in approval with you till the green part. What happened in red?

Even your later part of the answer somehow makes sense. What is the previous Rafale deal ? You mean the congressi-era 126 MMRCA deal that never materialized ?



But you better either justify this or I will make sure to get you banned.

First he said that IAF is superior than PAF after that as usual he went on a porki type rant. Moron seems to forget that it's pilot and staff which makes the airforce. Typical case of dementia.

 

[vishnugupt]

Even your later part of the answer somehow makes sense. What is the previous Rafale deal ? You mean the congressi-era 126 MMRCA deal that never materialized ?

I think we have signed a deal in 2016 for 36 Rafale

But you better either justify this or I will make sure to get you banned.

Despite of superiority in Quality and quantity IAF has always failed to achieve air superiority during conflicts against Piddy PIF. We can get satisfied by IAF claims but rest of the world is not. There is contrast differences if one can compare Israeli AF Campaign against their enemy. so what could be the possible reason for this inadequacy ?

 

[Arihant Roy]

The PAF has gone on the defensive.
The F16 block 52 armed with the AMRAAM 120C was their Brahmastra but now it has been outclassed by the Rafales and their Meteor BVR missiles.
This is exactly why we wanted the Rafale.
But 36 Rafales are clearly not enough.
Certainly not enough for a collusive China - Pak threat.
Our bureaucrats should negotiate with Dassault and get a good deal for India.
More Rafales built in India along with some significant technology transfer.
We should keep on trying for the French to help us with hot core technology for jet engines. They are reluctant but hopefully will eventually share the technology if we give them a good deal.

The F-16 blk50/52 and their F-16 A/B upgraded to MLU standards will have a hard time defending against the Su-30MKI and the vanilla Adder. With the new RVV-SD missile and our own Astra, they will be outclassed by our MiG-29UPG and Su-30MKI.

Rafale comes much later.

If you want a dick measuring competition, 120C has a 105 km range compared to 110 km of Astra mk1 and RVV-SD.

I reckon we have even bought the newer longer ranged R-77M too. Then Astra mk2 is coming in 2023-24. PAF will still have it's AIM120C5 which will have depleted most of its technical life by then .
They will have to rely on SD-10A. A pathetic missile even by R77 standards .

 

[NAMICA]

I think we have signed a deal in 2016 for 36 Rafale



Despite of superiority in Quality and quantity IAF has always failed to achieve air superiority during conflicts against Piddy PIF. We can get satisfied by IAF claims but rest of the world is not. There is contrast differences if one can compare Israeli AF Campaign against their enemy. so what could be the possible reason for this inadequacy ?

IAF achieved aerial superiority in all wars against PAF.

 

[Illusive]

I think we have signed a deal in 2016 for 36 Rafale



Despite of superiority in Quality and quantity IAF has always failed to achieve air superiority during conflicts against Piddy PIF. We can get satisfied by IAF claims but rest of the world is not. There is contrast differences if one can compare Israeli AF Campaign against their enemy. so what could be the possible reason for this inadequacy ?

Any examples of this or are you 1 of those people that require to be fed a propaganda movie or a documentary and only then can the airforce can get your rubber stamp of approval.

 

[shade]

I think we have signed a deal in 2016 for 36 Rafale



Despite of superiority in Quality and quantity IAF has always failed to achieve air superiority during conflicts against Piddy PIF. We can get satisfied by IAF claims but rest of the world is not. There is contrast differences if one can compare Israeli AF Campaign against their enemy. so what could be the possible reason for this inadequacy ?

Because one Jihad Fighter 17 flown by Ghazi -e- Pak is equal to twenty Su30s flow by weak black skinned hendu baniyas, there is no other reason.

Alhamdulilah it is the Jihad Fighter in pic below

 

[vishnugupt]

First he said that IAF is superior than PAF after that as usual he went on a porki type rant. Moron seems to forget that it's pilot and staff which makes the airforce. Typical case of dementia.

Kid, You lack wider view of a topic. what I said, is true. IAF is Superior in all way contrary to whose who claim AMRAAM is superior than our BVR missile. Things which I am saying here is actually being done by many on very forum. Su-30mki image has been actively destroyed by people like you and IAF. And I am the one who is being threaten to be banned.

 

[Arihant Roy]

I think we have signed a deal in 2016 for 36 Rafale



Despite of superiority in Quality and quantity IAF has always failed to achieve air superiority during conflicts against Piddy PIF. We can get satisfied by IAF claims but rest of the world is not. There is contrast differences if one can compare Israeli AF Campaign against their enemy. so what could be the possible reason for this inadequacy ?

Not true.
They surprised us . They had the initiative . They decided the time and place . Despite everything , they failed to break through. Our lads intercepted the package and foiled their plans. That's why all the H-4 missed their targets by more than a km or two . The LGB failed to hit home because the launch acs which was the F-16 B turned tail the moment they saw our MiG-21 . So the laser designation ended abruptly . Same was the case with the Mirage 5 and the man in loop tv guided H-4 aka Denel Raptor 2.

Compare this to our strike the previous night . The nearest PAF F-16 / JF-17 block 2 / F-7PG was more than 150 kms away . We hit what we had wanted to hit . And we escaped unscathed.

The PAF failed in their primary objective of teaching us a lesson because of our valiant pilots . They threw a spanner in the works. Eight of our acs held off against 24 of their acs in the strike package. Our pilots were vanilla guys. They had CCS graduates and instructors Manning the acs . Even then they failed to achieve crap. Our normal chaps vs their best . That should tell you something .

And I don't even want to bring 71 or 99 here. There's are lots of materials out there . Complete air dominance was achieved over East Pakistan . Same happened in Kargil over Drass, Batalik and the entire AOR of Western command. In the Western front in Op Cactus Lily , we achieved air supremacy .

In Op Swift Fart, the numbers were against us. Initially they had the initiative . Our lads were constrained by peactime overtly peaceful ROE . Even then PAF wasn't able to achieve much. What they achieved was a PR coup by arresting our Wing Co Abhinandan and shooting down our Bison . That isn't much. Abhinandan's wing man was also shot upon. He escaped unscathed .

Our superior training tactics , professional acumen and raw courage saved the day.

 

[Arihant Roy]

Kid, You lack wider view of a topic. what I said, is true. IAF is Superior in all way contrary to whose who claim AMRAAM is superior than our BVR missile. Things which I am saying here is actually being done by many on very forum. Su-30mki image has been actively destroyed by people like you and IAF. And I am the one who is being threaten to be banned.

Su30MKI image has got a liftup. From where are you getting stuff like Su30MKI 's image and reputation has been destroyed by IAF ?

 

[Deadtrap]

Kid, You lack wider view of a topic. what I said, is true. IAF is Superior in all way contrary to whose who claim AMRAAM is superior than our BVR missile. Things which I am saying here is actually being done by many on very forum. Su-30mki image has been actively destroyed by people like you and IAF. And I am the one who is being threaten to be banned.

Spend less time stalking Porkis on social media.

 

[shade]

Su30MKI image has got a liftup. From where are you getting stuff like Su30MKI 's image and reputation has been destroyed by IAF ?

This Russian dalal is mad thanks to purchase of Rafale by IAF.

Since superior Russian maal can never be inferior, it has to be the Hendu baniya pilots that are.

 

[vishnugupt]

Not true.
They surprised us . They had the initiative . They decided the time and place . Despite everything , they failed to break through. Our lads intercepted the package and foiled their plans. That's why all the H-4 missed their targets by more than a km or two . The LGB failed to hit home because the launch acs which was the F-16 B turned tail the moment they saw our MiG-21 . So the laser designation ended abruptly . Same was the case with the Mirage 5 and the man in loop tv guided H-4 aka Denel Raptor 2.

Compare this to our strike the previous night . The nearest PAF F-16 / JF-17 block 2 / F-7PG was more than 150 kms away . We hit what we had wanted to hit . And we escaped unscathed.

The PAF failed in their primary objective of teaching us a lesson because of our valiant pilots . They threw a spanner in the works. Eight of our acs held off against 24 of their acs in the strike package. Our pilots were vanilla guys. They had CCS graduates and instructors Manning the acs . Even then they failed to achieve crap. Our normal chaps vs their best . That should tell you something .

And I don't even want to bring 71 or 99 here. There's are lots of materials out there . Complete air dominance was achieved over East Pakistan . Same happened in Kargil over Drass, Batalik and the entire AOR of Western command. In the Western front in Op Cactus Lily , we achieved air supremacy .

In Op Swift Fart, the numbers were against us. Initially they had the initiative . Our lads were constrained by peactime overtly peaceful ROE . Even then PAF wasn't able to achieve much. What they achieved was a PR coup by arresting our Wing Co Abhinandan and shooting down our Bison . That isn't much. Abhinandan's wing man was also shot upon. He escaped unscathed .

Our superior training tactics , professional acumen and raw courage saved the day.

First thing I want tell everyone here is, giving a realistic view doesn't mean I am Appreciating PAF or their pilots. I can fondly remember PIA pilots who brought down their Plane just meters before runway while busy in discussing China virus ( Their Working Culture)

Operation fart was not a surprise attack in any sense. We did a strike deep into Pakistan and what are we expecting then?. for the sake many emotional guys here, I don't want to bring all things but during Balakot we failed to show our metal to the world and next day was indeed a disaster in all account.

Word "Achieving objectives" is not a purely military term, its a massage and we failed to send a clear massage to world over about our capability. literally nobody is backing our claims internationally.

Similarly a true air dominance is, to not allow your enemy to reach at your gate its not you repelled the attack after taking many casualties

Kargil won by Foot soldiers only ( Only entity I truly respect ) with relatively very less help from IAF. During Kargil war both party were restricted themselves within their respected border and Kargil also lies within India. Moreover there was no air fight still IAF lost few aircraft so this is wrong to say we have air dominance.
I really want somebody here to an audit on IAF role during Kargil War.

Again 71 war was won by Foot Soldiers ( most respected entity) by encircling Dhaka and eventually forcing Pakistan to surrender., Even during surrender west Pakistan managed to fly the jets.

BTW. You can still claim IAF saved the day but against whom?? A Piddi Pakistan and here people are happy just by saving the day while we are facing much larger and relatively more capable China on eastern front. Is it enough ??

 

[vishnugupt]

Su30MKI image has got a liftup. From where are you getting stuff like Su30MKI 's image and reputation has been destroyed by IAF ?

I have explained this in Su-30mki thread in detail with proofs few months ago.... you can check.

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

This Russian dalal is mad thanks to purchase of Rafale by IAF.

Since superior Russian maal can never be inferior, it has to be the Hendu baniya pilots that are.

I don't understand this motivation to be a self appointed dalal of a foreign nations weapon systems be they russian,israel or whatever.

If you are a nationalists you would not care if iaf or indian army operates which type of foreign equipment,but only if they have achieved their military objective.if their is any bias it should be towards indian manufactured and designed equipment.

When preference is shown to one foreign weapon to another ,I don't understand the hurt some people feel as if I hurt their race or nation.whats the matter if india bought rafales as long as the capabilities brought are good.if they want to cry ,pls cry to purchase the lca fast and bring up amca fast.